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| Question #1238324464 | Sunday, 29-Mar-2009 |
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| This was a comment before. But its about my uncertainity with Socionics and all typing systems, because of my uncertainity with my type. Please read, it would be so helpful to have new perspective. Its very long, but there is alot to it that you might have thought of, but never gotten far in trying to fully understand. [[[[[[[[Well, I'm an INT-something, or something something rather; who knows what? You sound like your preference as being an INTJ is clean-enough cut. Good for you. I'm going to be 17 soon and from when I was 14-15, I wasted my life contemplating socionics. Socionics is an interesting structure to such a grabbing concept. Most of the people who are on here for so long must be strong INTJs, maybe I am too, I'm just deficient and don't understand and comprehend things well enough, so I have to adopt the seeking behaviors of other types. I used to be really shy, wouldn't talk to anyone, but I love attention and I love people, I love it when people like me. But I'm in-my-own-head and shy all the same, I'm a freakin' mess. I scored INTP almost everytime I took the socionics test, but I fit the notion of dominant Ti better than Ni I think, though I get confused and am never sure. I'm super serious and intense; at my best I can appear very casual but still extremely intense, and have learned to be Chameleon-like in many different settings. I can never commit to anything. I also don't get good grades, and can talk intelligently and understand alot of things(though math is tricky unless it has to do with Classical Music) to an extent that I could be most genuinely thoughtful sounding speaker in a good sized collection of people. But I'm lazy and useless, in some ways I feel incredibly stupid. But, but but, but, I feel like I have a characteristic perspective to me that is very rare, and gives me the potential for a lot of ego and a lot of humility all the same, but coexisting and conflicting. Tangents. Well, my goal was to offer you some perspective, usually I have some pretty unusual perspectives. Socionics, I don't get it, I more about it than most people who claim to get it know, but, I don't have a type to confidently call my own. So, either I discredit it, or stubbornly hope it will work.]]]]]]]] What do you guys think? Do I just have ambiguous preferences, am I a confused member of a distinct type, or is Socionics just not that deeply applicable and somewhat faulty and not very scientific? Thats my current story with Socionics as best as I will be able to describe it right now. Don't call me any type please unless you are totally convinced and think you can sort of ADD to my knowledge, and NOT indescriminately OVERIDE it. In someways, Ne seems to be me because I like really wierd things and I indulgently dig into any concept I come across(I think refinement between intuition types is concept of faulty logic, its all the same..prove me wrong?). I'm also very charismatic when in a good mood, but I often feel like I have a puny presence. I don't think I'm "right brained" enough to be an ENTP. INTP, they seem too rigid and strategic at the expense of deep understanding. ENTJs are too tough and regular. INFJs, too naturally tranquil. INFPs, I can't manipulate my emotions very quickly. ENFPs, I'm too slow witted, even though I love social things, plus I'm too deep. ENFJs, too good socially and too energetic. INTJs, too linnear, but maybe that how I was born and I grew around it. ISTJs, too practicle. ISTPs too cool and cold. ISFJs, god, sometimes I feel dangerously close to being one, they describe them so much as what I aspire not to be but might actually be deep down; they are so lamely described, I have a strong mind! ISFPs, maybe when I have some twisted perspective, I'll believe it, same for all other unmentioned sensates. Please Help People, try my thinking on, if you think you have the type for me nailed, go for it. If you can't decide, start thinking about what I could actually be in a more flexible sense. I don't know what I mean really, just use your intuition to give me a wholesome, truly wholesome answer if you can. -- Grant |
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| A32 Grant: Like Shez, I am becoming more and more convinced that you are an INFp. To add to what Shez said, I noticed that much of your desire to be liked by people (which Shez mentioned) seems to stem from not wanting to appear "stupid". To me, this indicates Thinking as a Role function. The Role function is the function concerned with appearances and fitting in with society; you feel like you must be or at least appear smart. Also, your crying in front of the teacher is a good example of using Fe to cover your T-related weaknesses. Furthermore, being made fun of for "lacking common sense" and "having only booksmarts and not streetsmarts" are both consistent with being an Intuitive type, i.e., always thinking abstractly and being unable to pay enough attention to your immediate surroundings. As for the not "[holding] back on saying what you're thinking," that Shez mentioned, I think this could be explained by you being a INFp with a Creative subtype (see Gulenko's 4-subtype system). That would also explain the Ne overtones you sometimes express. Anyway, like Shez said, if there's one type you can rule out, it's ESTj. -- Krig (INTj) |
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| A33 Shez: Ahhh, MBTI INFP makes much more sense; MBTI INFP is roughly equivalent to Socionics INFj, which is of course Look-a-Like to INTj. It would be much easier to confuse INTj and INFj than to confuse INTj and INFp! The question now is which one are you, really? An INTj who used to appear INFj-ish? Or an INFj who now appears INTj-ish? -- Krig (INTj) |
| A34 Grant+Krig+Shez: I'd also type Grant as INFp - if so many of his views, experiences and opinions didn't sound so strikingly similar to mine. I've never read something that sounds so much like me. (Sorry Grant, you wanted Socionics to prove you are different, and here we go, somebody claims to be similar...) And also if he was more sure about his opinions. Because as far as I know, INFps are usually sure of the things they say, they sound like making statements, though with respect to others' feelings. My version is ESFp: extrovert, because being more sure in expressing thoughts about his surrounding than about his own identity, because striving for recognition in the first place and for self-definition in the second. And because this seems to come naturally to him and he seems to be positive about it, I would say this is Se and it's his first function. Se because he seems to very much look outside of himself and therefore not knowing what he himself is exactly like. He seems to be the happiest when he can be the best, have a free "operation area" and make a difference in a team = Se again. Also he writes about moving the body to move the mind and about consuming more and more information and having difficulties digesting it, which is Se, too. From the beginning, he has had no inhibitions telling us what to do, which is typical of ITjs (but he probably isn't an ITj) and of Es, especially of ESs. He provokes people and waits for reaction, this is an Ep behaviour. He is confident about this ability ("I might have a few responses by now"). He forms his views by claiming something and adding "I'm not sure about it" and then approving of it or dismissing it according to the others' reaction (but not always letting it to direct him). This is the EFp way of communication. As to the striving for precision and perfection, this is Grant's hidden agenda, but now I see it as Te. Notice how he's careful in using correct interpunction and capitals and that he's chosen a real word, not a senseless symbol as his nickname - this is typical of Ss and Tes, especially of Gamma quadra. So I'd vote for Te, and for it being HA, especially because he claims to be an ESTj. HA often is what we see in ourselves most. We want others to see it in us, too, but when they do and praise us for it we have the feeling this is somehow not what we wanted, this is not us. This is the eternal struggle with HA. He has weak Ni: when he manages to form a view, it confuses him and makes him unsure of it. This is the ESFp-INTp duality: when we are with an INTp, we don't get so confused by different views, because they have managed to control Ni, it being their first function. So Grant makes an INp impression because Ni is what he's trying to manage and because Se is difficult to see, especially in ourselves and especially here. -- Ezis (ESFp) |
| A35 To Grant: I hope I am answering all your questions, if I forget something let me know. First off, by mentioning your brief factual questions, I had the questions How do you know about Latvia? What is your type (to Shez) and Has nobody recognized your abilities? (or something like that, to me) in mind. And I definitely didn't mean they were not pre-thought. As to ESFp "sunny rock players", as you say: yeah, this is the most typical ESFp, but not the only one. It is easy for an ESFp to choose a profession like this, because many of them realize at some point that they are energized by people, but they aren't communicative, and moreover, people have the opposite, that is draining effect on them when they don't have a set place or role among them and when they are forced to do nothing, just chat. So how to be with people and at the same time not to be with them? To become a performer. A teacher, a tourist guide, an actor, a musician. This way, you can be energized by people and make them happy by giving the energy back (=being sunny, as you say), and you can communicate with them solely by your Se and don't have to force your secondary or tertiary function to converse politely. Of course this isn't what most performers think before becoming performers, more probably the motivation is being energized by the music, by the opportunity to make people move and forget about their troubles, and at the same time maybe to tell them something important in an easy-to-digest way. ESFp performers are not only the irresponsible, glamour-hungry freaks like Elvis or Elizabeth Taylor, but there is a huge number of cute, modest and educated ESFp performers and teachers who lead a simple life. Unfortunately, apart from David Suchet, I know only Czech celebrities like Libuse Safrankova, Andrea Elsnerova, Erik Pardus or Karel Zich to name as examples, in case you felt like looking them up. As to your teacher coming off in a test as an ISTj - well, this needn't have anything to do with Socionics, it was an MBTI test, and MBTI is partly different from Socionics and people often come off as a different type than they later discover as their own. -- Ezis (ESFp) |
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