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| Question #1171095166 | Saturday, 10-Feb-2007 |
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| Why are ESTps and INFps duals? Do ESTps treat INFps in a way they do not others? As far as negative traits go, many ESTps have a bad rap for over-materialism and exploitation. So an INFp enters the scene and ... what happens? Do ESTps actually soften? Feel protective of the INFp? Possibly reveal their tender side they don't show others? Do they suddenly give more than take? What happens? Also, why might INFjs find themselves happiest with ESTjs, as the theory goes? ESTjs - sweet as some can be - can become so terribly boring (sorry, ESTjs!), it's hard to believe INFjs wouldn't tire of an ESTj partner in a profoundly stifling way. Do they? Or do INFps experiences that? Perhaps INFjs can appreciate the security and normalness ESTj provides, but then it can get to be too much, too stagnant and stifling. What are the typical "pitfalls" of duality? And how do you know you've met your dual? -- blahblahblah |
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| A33 A32, your response is filled with much information. In processing information I often have to step back and analyze. To do so, I gather information, retreat with it, break it down piece by piece and get the full meaning of what I believe was the intended meaning. You've given me much to process...I love logical analysis. I usually don't like to give quick responses. Spontaneous people frazzle me, I fall apart if things are not planned out-like answers..You mention the Zodiac, as Jung was interested in. My astrological sign is on the cusp-Sagittarius/Capricorn. Someone who could be either spiritual or down to earth (or both in my case?). I find it interesting that my type in question INFp/INFj-can come down to "struggling with the physical & spiritual self"-as do my zodiac signs. If numerology were introduced, I was born on the 22nd. The number 22 is associated with strong psychic ability and highly evolved spirituality. I find the connection interesting.. I also am neither right handed, nor left-I am both. So in addition to the use of the logical left side of the brain-I also use the artistic right side. If one side is more emotional than the other-I guess you could also say I "struggle with both the emotional and intellectual side of self"-but I know logic pretty much wins with me most of the time. In relationships ESTps are drawn to me. My empathy for others can meet their need to be loved-and I can give that. However, ESTps, in my eyes, are too materialistic, too spontaneous, and communicating with them is like talking to an alien at times. However, I can get a sense of freedom with them, which I like. The ESTj is so easy to be with, no real complaint, except a sort of controlling feel around them-I like things to be in order, but again like the feeling of freedom. I do have a need "to understand", so much so that when I am ill, I over analyse and think I'm dying of something-the need "to be healthy". In the end, I think I'm a complex person-who can get along with anyone-probably because of that very complexity.. -- aj |
| A34 @A33 aj, thanks for the thoughtful response. I am not into mysticism personally. I am a scientist with degrees in engineering and physics. I have faith in God, that is about as spiritual as I get. I mentioned the zodiac only as an example of how the desire to stereotype one's fellow humans is an ancient thing - there truly is nothing new under the sun. I don't believe in the zodiac (or numerology) myself. -- Anonymous |
| A35 I am a 25 year old INFP (on both MBTI and socionics testing). I am a very strong intuitive and have very little sensing ability. I always say that I am all vision and no precision, and often feel like I am floating out of my body. I am also very strong perceiver, but have been able to make some small strides in balancing out the organizational style of my life. I can very much relate to the idea of introverted intuition and extraverted feeling, which MBTI seems to get all wrong. Socionics seems to have a skewed view on INFps with some of the statements made about them being the most likely to marry for money. I think money and marriage are simply something that an INFp has little respect for as they are both societal inventions as opposed to universal constants. I think it is the type most likely to marry another regardless of an age difference which may be interpreted as marrying for money by people who could not understand it in any other way. I work as a nurse and know that I am capable of caring a great deal about strangers welfare in a very transitory way. I have worked with several INFjs and ENFps have found that the introverted feeling function seems to keep their own feelings as paramount in any situation. If they can relate to the experience of another, they internalize it and can take it on as their own in an almost eternal sense, which can be considered a true form of empathy. I think Joan of Arc was definitely an INFj as I think Isabel Briggs Myers was as well. I don't think an INFp is very interested in committing to one idea or project for the rest of hir life. I literally forget myself at work which is about the only place I can since I am rather self obsessed otherwise, but that extraverted feeling just gets me so outside of myself. I can cry with my patients and truly be present with them and leave it all behind when I walk out the door. The other INFps and ENFjs that I have worked with would stay hours later than their shift with no demands for overtime in order to make sure that the patient receives the best transition in care which can make a difference of life and death in some cases. INFjs and ENFps that I have worked with leave when their shift is over unless asked to stay. For as long as I can remember when another person has described something that I would find painful, I get a shock in my knees. Is this empathy? I think empathy is a perceptive experience. I think the ENFj is more into sympathy which is more of a judgement. I once knew an INFj lawyer who told me that in order to justify the rates he charged as a lawyer, he felt he had to take the person's case on as if it was his own. This took an enormous psychological toll on him. I feel so grateful that I can leave behind the pain of others, that I don't have to carry it with me wherever I go. What is this called? Impathy? I have only ever know 2 ESTps. An uncle and a doctor I used to work. I felt an amazing sense of kinship with him. In the hospital I worked at, doctors did not listen to nurses for more than a few minutes, and you certainly didn't argue with them unless it was a very serious situation. This man was around 70 and had a very heavy case load, but he was always willing to listen to me, sometimes we'd argue for close to an hour. I had to translate my compassion into logical terms, but he was always quite openminded to what I had to say if I could put it in rational enough language. I felt so secure being listened to like that, like we were a perfectly balanced team. I don't work there anymore, but I'm trying to find more ESTps. I don't know why I have such poor luck. My mother is an ESTj and I would say that it was the recipe for a painful childhood just based on that. There is plenty of love and respect between us, but the complete lack of understanding caused me quite a bit of damage growing up. I had a major breakdown when I was 14, was hospitalized and had to relearn a lot of things. She thought it was something I did to get out of doing chores. The closest she ever came to understanding our relationship came when she was mistakenly diagnosed with stage 4 cancer and I ended up taking care of her for a few days. Since then, we have had a level of understanding, I could have previously only hoped for. -- ac |
| A36 I'm an INFp with an INFj friend. Compared to me, he seems more serious, conventional, and pessimistic about people. I may describe someone who does something offensive as being oblivous to other people's feelings, or unaware of the impact of his actions. He's more likely to describe that person as intentionally manipulative or evil. He's more reluctant to give advice, and when he does he'll preface it with, "I'm not an expert, but I guess..." I'm not as worried about being right. We've both said we feel like "aliens." He seems more angry about it. Sometimes I feel sad about it, other times, proud. -- feeler |
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| A37 ESTPs speak their minds readily, but seldom have much mind worth speaking. -- Anonymous |
| A38 When people ask for advice, they're often just looking for affirmation that they know the right thing to do. I know an ESTP who's always encouraging people to dare to be themselves. People need affirmation more than they need someone telling them what to do. -- feeler |
| A39 Anyone who doesn't analyze the "dare" for what it's worth to them is a fool. The motive of any action is, presumably, some gain. You're probably right about the "affirmation" but the last thing they need is to be overcome by bouts of moral conscience. -- Anonymous |
| A40 Just to comment here on two things. First, on the original post, perhaps he is an ENTP and you are in a relation of supervision with him. If you are, then you would feel frustrated with his actions often. Anyway, both ENTP's and ESTP's have what others may say appears to be narsiccistic traits. When lacking humility, ESTP's can simply think they are the best, and ENTP's can seek for others to reflect back to them that they are the best. Especially when emotionally unhealthy, ENTP's need to prove their worth where ESTP's are just blind to any other possibility then how absolutely awesome they are. This kind of blind confidence can win other's over easily something you mentioned is very easy for him. And two, INFJ's have a real tendency to withdrawal from the outside world often. In general they are very private people, where INFP's can be shy but really enjoy personal attention and focus on themselves. INFJ's would be more uncomfortable with a lot of attention and feel robbed of their privacy. I have a hard time seeing INFJ's bending over backwards or being taken advantage of by an ESTP type as the reward I surmise would be less than satifying for them. So if he is an ESTP I would doubt the likelihood of you being an INFJ. You seem to have a lot of patience with him or understanding for him. I would not be surprised if this is a dual relationship. Him being an ESTP and you being an INFP. Which yes I believe an ESTP would be more open with their dual the INFP. -- cac |
| A41 aj- have you considered the possibility that you are ENFJ? I am an INFP and to me you come across as an ENFJ friend of mine does. She also has strong premonitions and a deeper sense for the "other side". Also you seem a "mentor" type in the way you look at your relationships. If you were ENFJ your relationship to your ESTJ husband would have been one of super-ego, and your relationship to the ESTP one of activity. -- Anonymous |
A42 A35. It is always interesting, and sometimes a great comfort, to read stories from fellow INFP's. Thank you  And good luck in your quest  -- Anonymous |
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