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Question #1171095166Saturday, 10-Feb-2007
Category: Duality ESTp INFp ESTj INFj
Why are ESTps and INFps duals? Do ESTps treat INFps in a way they do not others? As far as negative traits go, many ESTps have a bad rap for over-materialism and exploitation. So an INFp enters the scene and ... what happens? Do ESTps actually soften? Feel protective of the INFp? Possibly reveal their tender side they don't show others? Do they suddenly give more than take? What happens? Also, why might INFjs find themselves happiest with ESTjs, as the theory goes? ESTjs - sweet as some can be - can become so terribly boring (sorry, ESTjs!), it's hard to believe INFjs wouldn't tire of an ESTj partner in a profoundly stifling way. Do they? Or do INFps experiences that? Perhaps INFjs can appreciate the security and normalness ESTj provides, but then it can get to be too much, too stagnant and stifling. What are the typical "pitfalls" of duality? And how do you know you've met your dual? -- blahblahblah
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A11 I have looked over the description of the ENTp, my bf is very close to this in many areas. He is absent minded, doesn't like to admit fault, and is quick and shrewd. However, he likes to be noticed and always shows positive emotion, gaining others trust easily. He does sense the weaknesses of others, and plays on this to get his way. As far as safety, he doesn't misjudge it-he chooses to ignore it. If he were to get cut, he'd be kind of a cry baby over it though. He brings up his health quite a bit-but is that because of me?? He knows it gets my attention. The tie breaking question in my mind is this-sensing or intuitive. He is very in the here and now, pleasures based on physcial sensation, and self confident. I really don't see anything based on intuition. A lot of how I determine a question as to a person's type I gain from John Oldham's books. I've gone to the16personalitytypes site for references also. My ESTp bf, as I mentioned earlier, seems to have a degree of Narcissitic personality disorder. This ties in with the ESTp pathalogical personality disorder most likely to occur. The ENTp being Compensatory narcissitic personality disorder. You can see how the two are related, and confusion can occur in typing. I observe certain tendicies in many types, of seeing if they lean toward a certain "disorder" to some degree or not. My ENFj brother is very obsessive compulsive, my INFp friend is dramatic, close to being histrionic. Being INFj, I have an avoidant type personality. Yet, some will think that I too am an extrovert. I am often chosen to be in leadership type roles-behind the scenes though, in a small group, like president of a small board that directs many in the larger scheme of things. I am quite humble in life, often asking myself why people come to me for things-why they choose me for any reason. It's not that I have low self esteem, but rather, trying to get an understanding of human nature in general. I always try to understand others. When I graduated from high school I quietly suggested the Desderata for our graduating song. When the class agreed I just thought "wow, maybe being quiet does send messages to others-they hear me even when I do not speak". A sense of extroversion fell over me in that observation..As far as what my subtype is, I'm not sure. How do know this? -- aj
A12 @A10, Hi anonymous INTp, thanks for the suggestion but I have already considered that. Btw, I've been studying VI intermittently for over 7 years now, and while I still am not a 100% expert, I have learned enough to say there is remarkable validity to much of what Sergei has uncovered. V.I. is far more energetic than physiological, tho` the physiological of course reflects this. AT any rate, do you have any stories with conflicting and/or dual relations you'd like to share to shed more light on this topic? If so, thanks in advance! @A11, Aj – 1) I believe that your additional descriptions of your bf still fits an ENTp. ENTp could appear to seek pleasures - i.e., exciting experiences in the here and now (Ne seeks novelty) / with senses (e.g., new foods, new music, new groups of people, etc.) Remember how ISFp is ENTp's dual - and they DO connect! Hmm. More distinctions … ENTps seem to be more oblivious to social gestures - e.g., to "sense" when they're interrupting, or displaying a mood that is incongruent with the tone of the group (e.g., goofing off and interrupting a serious meeting; not realize when they’re irritating people (or maybe they don’t care and are trying to persuade you?!)). ESTps DO seem to listen with more focus, looking right into your eyes, able to draw all sorts of info out of you – yet - are reluctant to share much about themselves when you try. And ENTp would be more inclined to shared personal history as well as current aches and pains (like a small child) when trying to connect with others. ESTps are more inclined to complain about someone not being available to them at the drop of a hat, and/or sharing information with them. While relating for the sake of relating, ESTps ask for lots of info - ENTps GIVE it. 2) I know what you mean about the "narcissistic" inclinations. Although, I am starting to grow more and more hesitant to label someone synonymously with personality disorders since the continuum between traits versus disorder is VERY wide in terms of impairment which warrants clinical diagnosis. The more you encounter people with such challenges, the less likely you may want to attribute similar labels to "normal" people with the subtler expressions of such features! And finally, 3) I do not know of a surefire, generalized way to assess one's subtype; but from your writings, my guess is that you would be a true-type (i.e., first function - Fi seems dominant). -- blahblahblah
A13 blahblahblah, I'm still not clear on why you think ENTp after my further description. As you describe more of ESTp, I see more of him. Looking into eyes to get info, not sharing about himself (the aches & pains are ONLY with me) is really huge with him, and he expects people to jump when he says jump. He has pointed out that he thinks I interrupt and change the mood of a group-not he. Today I did some "surfing". In a profile of the mates for the INFJ by David Keirsey, he writes that she will opt for the ENTP(inventor) or the ESTP(entrepreneur). They look alike and are both attracted to the INFJ. She feels she must save the ESTPs soul, and the ENTP feels she can save his-just to mention a few things. This certain profile doesn't even mention the best match for INFJ-the other type profiles do-what's with that? Do you suppose that's what INFJs do-go through life never really finding a true mate, in the name of saving others-specifally ENTp and ESTp? And these guys sense that, and hence, their attraction to INFj? And their aren't many of us, so they hold on?(These profiles may not be socionics, however, I test INFj in both socionics and meyers/briggs). I believe we are made up of energy. Like a magnet-it's the positive and negative sides that fit together and hold strong. You can not have good without evil, up without down, love without hate-each can not exist without the other.I think we are attracted to our conflicting type for a reason. I especially see this as true for the ESTp/INFj relationship, having somewhat of a spiritual reasoning for that. I have a very strong belief in opposites attracting-and getting along. It's probably more of my personality though, I want everyone to get along, and try to project that onto eveyone I meet... -- aj
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A14 Aj, seems to have or does have for real? The relationships of people with narcisstic personality disorder, are very different from normal relationships. Narcisstic peoples partners are what is known as the narcisstic resource. They use these people as a source to boost their weak ego. That is sort of drain these peoples "psychological energy" to feed their own, by having someone they can constantly undermine. This gives the narcisstic person a feeling of superiority. So in this case a conflicting partner could be a likely choice. Because to the narcisstic person, the conflicting partner is the type that has the most inferior qualities. Btw. When narcisstic person takes a personality test, they always lie on the questions. -- Anonymous
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