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Question #1171095166Saturday, 10-Feb-2007
Category: Duality ESTp INFp ESTj INFj
Why are ESTps and INFps duals? Do ESTps treat INFps in a way they do not others? As far as negative traits go, many ESTps have a bad rap for over-materialism and exploitation. So an INFp enters the scene and ... what happens? Do ESTps actually soften? Feel protective of the INFp? Possibly reveal their tender side they don't show others? Do they suddenly give more than take? What happens? Also, why might INFjs find themselves happiest with ESTjs, as the theory goes? ESTjs - sweet as some can be - can become so terribly boring (sorry, ESTjs!), it's hard to believe INFjs wouldn't tire of an ESTj partner in a profoundly stifling way. Do they? Or do INFps experiences that? Perhaps INFjs can appreciate the security and normalness ESTj provides, but then it can get to be too much, too stagnant and stifling. What are the typical "pitfalls" of duality? And how do you know you've met your dual? -- blahblahblah
Your Answers: 1+ 7+ 11+ 15+ 22+ 33+ 43+ 50+ 62+
A43 From another 25 year old INFp male: A35 is literally jam-packed with sage words differentiating the two types. For years I have searched for tangible evidence in getting past the INFx hump. It truly is, in my mind, one of the hardest Jungian function distinctions to make. As with A35, I also routinely test INFP/INFp, but the INFJ/INFj descriptors also fit to varying degrees, depending on the source (mainly MBTI composites). The real key to unlocking your socionics type, I believe, is twofold: 1) determining which function you use in the more abstract/internal world (ie. dominant introverted function), and 2) determining which function others see in you (ie. auxillary extraverted function). For most INFx types, this is a difficult task, as all four NF functions (Ni, Ne, Fi, Fe) tend to be exercised in healthy doses, and suffer somewhat in their descriptions. By and large, however, two are always slightly more prominant in both orientation and day to day use. Pertaining to the dual/conflicting type conundrum: a similar approach. Read up on both types' dominant/auxillary functions (Se/Ti for the ESTp; Te/Si for the ESTj). Which would you rather communicate with in an extended capacity? Personally, I have always found overly Te/Si personalities very hard to deal with - they just never seem to be able to see the forest through the trees. I would love to hear about experiences INFj types have has with this personality type. As for ESTp, I know very few (if any) people of this type. Something about being polar functional opposites keeps us in different realms, I suppose. But I definitely haven't had any negative experiences with the Se/Ti type thus far, and I quite enjoy most Se/Fi types, which can bear a surface resemblance. Great discussion right here. I do hope more will follow! -- Chris
A44 Personally I've felt that aj is an INFp for a while now. Since you posted a question asking which j/p you were. I responded by saying I found you confusing, and you said you thought I knew you well. That didn't quite make sense to me! aj said - "and it's been my quest to understanding premonition dreams and the mysteries of life since childhood" and "It's not that I have low self esteem, but rather, trying to get an understanding of human nature in general. I always try to understand others." and "I do have a need "to understand", so much so that when I am ill, I over analyse and think I'm dying of something-the need "to be healthy"." Notice a trend? Just a guess, maybe your ex was ISTj (INFp activity), and now you've found your dual, it sure sounds like you have anyway! Finally, I've said this before, when aj was trying to type him/her self, INFj's are NOT mystical, not at all. We are very spiritually devoted, but that isn't the same as mystical at all. INFj's are the quintessential martyr's. In fact most of us would LIKE to be martyr's. (Not the sad, yucky, dying part, the giving oneself wholly and completely to a cause.) In my, admittedly somewhat limited, experience, INFp's are less devoted and more spiritual and INFj's more devoted and less spiritual. Question for the experts, because INFp/ISFp have a hidden agenda of understanding, does that make them predisposed to misunderstand things???(for instance, typology =D) -- Azure
A45 A44 - I'm not reading all those long posts, but I predict that the INFj posts will be more self-promotional, like "aj" is in her original post. If people really want to understand, and aren't just saying they do, they will want untainted truth, and will be objective even when describing themselves, like an INFp. Commericials and other promotional information is less likely to be truthful, just like someone's bragging. Life is complicated enough without lies and slants to further cloud the truth. Someone who truly wants to understand will see that naturally. I think "aj" is INFj but maybe wants to be a dual to her mate and so is questioning herself. -- learning
A46 SeTiNiFe and NiFeSeTi attract because they are made from the same ingredients, while at the same time do not tread in each others pasture. ESTp needs to be loved. INFp intuitively slices through the façade, sees that inner need and has the Fe, the passion to deliver the goods. INFp needs to understand things. ESTp usually has a wealth of knowledge and has the Te to show how it’s done to a willing student. They are both into themselves so don’t mind giving the other the space each requires. Most importantly, neither mind the fact that every flat surface in their respective domains are covered in junk and dust:-) -- I/O
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A47 learning, A45 - You sound extraordinarily bitter, and you seem to have attributed, rightly or wrongly, the source of your bitterness to INFj/ESTj's (your mom which you referenced in another post). Leaving that lie, I have to take issue with your descriptions of INFj's and INFp's, they are in direct opposition to the descriptions on this site and many other's. You said: "will be objective even when describing themselves, like an INFp" Socionics says, on the INFp + and - profile: "Eventually you can cause people to tire of you and even doubt your honesty concerning your well being." learning, your post seems to imply that INFj's like to "sell themselves" like a commercial, however that is so totally the opposite of an INFj: "INFjs are generally very modest" and "INFjs do not like to project themselves" I think you really need to do some soul-searching, and first of all to realize that it is individuals, not one or two specific types, that are causing you grief. -- Azure
A48 I am still here trying "to understand"..I am going into my 10th year of a relationship with an ESTp. And still not sure of my j/p factor. Today I retook the test here and for the first time came up INFj-no tie as I usually did. I took a good look at my relationship with my ESTp bf. I also read some more descriptions on the wikisocion link someone gave. On that sight it was mentioned that a common social role for an INFp would be that of a poet expressing his unique vision of various aspects of life but not taking interest in politics or his own daily affairs. I have written a collection of poems, however, I am interested in politics & my daily affairs. That's where the ESTp steps in. He has dared me take my poetry to the next level-to get published. However, if I do, he wants a "share" of the profit. I intially mistake his "encouragement" for caring, yet inside I'm saying "you selfish jerk". Leave it to an ESTp to manipulate other's emotions or talents-for their gain. However, without his manipulation-I would never begin the publishing process. Without my poetry actually making him cry-yes I can get to people's weak spots-I would never move forward. I stated somewhere in this discussion that our relationship was going to bring purpose, and it is happening for a reason at this time in my life. Along with poetry that comes from the visions I have in dreams, and actually his inspirations also-I want to study psychology. The same sight had information on the INFj's professional possibilites. That being psychology, and their abilities being applied to the speheres of spiritual knowledge, enlightenment and religion. I plan on starting college soon at a seminary. I see myself more as a teacher of such knowledge rather than sitting one to one as a therapist. One of my biggest pet peeves are "time stealers". Does that gear more toward either INFj or INFp? I need to be in control of my time. I think everyone should be in control of their own time and space. I want to help others-but not do it for them. I do not like to be told what to do-or how to do it. I can not be around people too long because I get worn out taking on their emotions. I often retreat for a few days-and come out refreshed. I like a clean work space and home. I don't always pay attention to my outside environment-each day is like a new day when I walk outside, like "wow, where did that beautiful tree come from?" I get to "notice" new things every day. That is a gift to me-I am not material at all. I would never marry for money-but as someone stated, marrying someone younger(my bf is 11yrs younger) has nothing to do with money-I only see "souls". However, marriage is an important commitment, and I would never take it lightly-preferring not to marry again unless I felt it 100% right.The ESTp in my life often calls me opionated(he is always right) and a drama queen. INFp's are known to be drama queens. However, I believe the ESTp creates that drama. And since I "know" this-I can walk away with a little bit of my special sarcasm-a smile on my face, and him wondering if I just slammed him. Now I sound mean, but it's fun to keep him guessing. I hope to "teach" him by giving him a refelection of himself. And in the process I hope he teaches me some narcissism, as it is a downfall for me. (I hate to talk about my self in this way, but I want to give a picture of who I am-my therapist tells me I lack some much needed narcissism and possess an ample amout of humility-she really wants me to be a psychologist and help others). So, whatever I may be-I still have a definite ESTp in my life to learn from for now. It just may be this very relationship that does have me wondering who I am.. -- aj
A49 Sorry, second post, but for I/O - I appreciate your clear, concise and creative description @ A46. -- learning
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