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Question #1103061923Tuesday, 14-Dec-2004
Category: INFp
What's the most narcissistic type? INFp? -- Anonymous
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Your Answers: 1+ 18+ 33+ 42+
A33 A28, you are not detaching yourself from your ego, you keep describing the viewpoint of an INFp. Your judging function is Fe, and we are talking about Fi. Fe allows you to do exactly what you keep mentioning everyone esle should do. Not everyone has that ability, since there is another side to feeling Fi. If Fi is the 1st feeling judging function in the ego, the person would have to rely on the Fe in the unconsious to hijack the ego and then run it through the INFp Fe function then go back to the natural way the Fi type is supposed to metabolise the information. It is not possible for any Fi type to do this with out an ennormous amount of work, that they don't have time to use. Like i said before, the ESTp is the most narcissistic because the Fe function is in the 6th function spot and has to go through many other functions before it gets there, where it can use the Fe in a very selfish way with out others lways knowing their motivations, because they come off as nice and personable most of the timie in public. So A28, you have a blind spot that you are not aware of yourself. I'm just lightly skimming the surface of the personality theory, so please tell me your explaination for your theory. All i have read is very vague arguments. Please use the functions to explain your theory so that i can understand your argument. Thanks -- Anonymous
A34 A32, There is a link between self-destruction and suicidal ideation. None of my claims are ever black or white, because there are always exceptions to the rule. What i am saying is that there is a majority that are fully capable of these behaviors if given the right environmental factors. The pure personality with out these factors makes for a person that can be molded into a person that will not go after these behaviors, but reality is not that nice. We are all subjected to the environment when we are born, so if a ESTp is not raised in a good environment with good parental guidance, they can easily be swept up into groups that encourage nacssistic behaviors, amongst other anti-social behaviors. I also don't believe that a sociotype will actively seek these behaviors out, but the environment can make it more likely for certain types to be attracted. -- Anonymous
A35 A32 again. I want to rephrase something I wrote, for clarity: "I am skeptical that individuals of a certain sociotype are actively motivated to seek out narcissism [in other people]." A34, in order to say that ESTps have a predisposition for narcissism and anti-social behaviors, you need to identify the biological factors that contribute to these things and also pinpoint the biological factors that cause one to have an ESTp sociotype and then demonstrate clearly how the two overlap. If you are able to integrate socionics with neuroscience and accomplish this, then you could tend to the task of documenting how specific sociological factors foster narcissism. So your arguments are unconvincing from an empirical standpoint and also contain some deficiencies from a theoretical standpoint, which I've addressed in my A32 response. -- a person
A36 A33: "It is not possible for any Fi type to do this with out an ennormous amount of work, that they don't have time to use." This is precisely my point. If you aren't willing to accept that there is a choice in how you react to things (no matter how much work it entails), then you will forever be at the mercy of the personality type with which you have identified. I do also believe that an Fi dominant personality would have a great deal of trouble accepting this, because the basis of your ego is built upon how you "feel" about things. Make no mistake, I'm not prescribing my set of functions on to anybody else; if you still think I am, then you are missing the point. I'm not going to discuss this in terms of socionics functions any further, because the functions themselves create arbitrary divisions based on the ego (i.e., your view of the ESTp). If you really want to know where I'm coming from, I would highly recommend "The Power of Now" by Eckhardt Tolle. All the best. -- INFp guy
A37 narcissism is a personality disorder. Anyone regardless of type can be susceptible to it. It correlates with low self esteem. -- istp
A38 A36: Well Spoken!! -- Anonymous
A39 A37 narcissism is a personality disorder. Anyone regardless of type can be susceptible to it. It correlates with low self esteem. - istp Depressive (IxFP) and Narcissists (ExFJ) look on the surface the same, Psychopaths/Sociopaths/Antisocials (ExTJ)are all logic, no emotion and far closer to the narcissists (ExFJ)than the depressive (IxFP). Depressive hate themselves too much, Narcissists love themselves too much. Depressive hate narcissists because the narcissists love themselves too much, narcissists hate depressive because the depressive hate themselves too much. Depressive hate themselves and perceive themselves below others and thus like majority people surrounding them - they like especially other fellow depressive. Before a depressive accepts a narcissist is their shadow they are extremely afraid becoming, the narcissist are the ones who can irritate depressive so angry that the depressive go beyond berserk - and later heavily regret their burst of anger. Neuroscience has recently proved that narcissists perceive themselves equally grandiose inside as their external behaviour is and narcissists perceive themselves always outsiders because others will never accept their false sense of superiority, no matter how popular they are. Depressive (IxFP) calm down and start to heal and respect themselves even if they have one true friend. Freudian tradition one-on-one therapists are more likely to be Narcissists, since Freud himself was archtypical narcissist (check wikipedia for his life), Jungian threapists are more likely to work on group therapy. Narcissists (ExFJ) are good manipulators because they understand immediate emotional states of others, but ever prisoners of themselves, because they are quite blind of their own emotions, especially their own unconscious. This is why narcissists usually end up being profession of psychology and that's why many therapists project their own self-denied ExFJ -nature on to IxFP -patiens. If someone is IxFP, group therapy is a absolute must, since one-on-one therapist is quite likely ExFJ, who absolutely loathes IxFP -patients. Psychopaths/Antisocials (ExTJ) are actually far worse in emotional manipulation than Narcissist (ExFJ), but it's extremely accurate and astute reasoning of Psychopaths/Antisocials (ExTJ) that allow them realize facts and pattern about surrounding reality faster than any other personality types and thus ExTJ derive their power from logical necessities. So next time when stone-cold-hearted-unemphatetic-thinkers speak reason, listen intensively. Depressive (IxFP) are so connected to the own emotions, that they detect more easily the unconscious emotion others are personally unaware of, often unintentionally hitting the extremely sore spot of psyche of someone else, even if they initially only wanted to help. Sadly, because of this trait, the worst tyrants of history have been ultrastressed extremely intelligent INFP:s, who become stuck on their ESTJ masks. Best killer is also the best healer. As an INFP myself ... Even despite I've been more or less aware of my shadow since child, trying to avoid becoming it, it's not indeed easy to accept it, and yes, I've been lately exploring my shadow a lot lately. For INFP it's actually a great gift to detect ulterior and also Altruistic motives of others and still be extremely connected to own true emotions. Pardon my typos, I'm not a native english speaker. [Ne][Si][Te] -- Anonymous
A40 A RATIONAL response to nacissistic personality disorder and how it correlates OVERALL to a low self esteem or (fragile, weak self esteem). What you are describing as "narcissist loving themselves too much" is one of the symptoms of narcissism but the overall reason as to why they behave that way is because they have a fragile outlook of themselves. "Narcissistic personality disorder is further characterized by an abnormal love of self, an exaggerated sense of superiority and importance, and a preoccupation with success and power. However, these attitudes and behaviors do not reflect true self-confidence. Instead, the attitudes conceal a deep sense of insecurity and a fragile self-esteem." Source: http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/narcissistic-personality-disorder "When you have narcissistic personality disorder, you may come across as conceited, boastful or pretentious. You often monopolize conversations. You may belittle or look down on people you perceive as inferior. You may have a sense of entitlement. And when you don't receive the special treatment to which you feel entitled, you may become very impatient or angry. You may also seek out others you think have the same special talents, power and qualities — people you see as equals. You may insist on having "the best" of everything — the best car, athletic club, medical care or social circles, for instance. But underneath all this grandiosity often lies a very fragile self-esteem. You have trouble handling anything that may be perceived as criticism. You may have a sense of secret shame and humiliation. And in order to make yourself feel better, you may react with rage or contempt and efforts to belittle the other person to make yourself appear better." Causes: "It is not known what causes narcissistic personality disorder. As with other mental disorders, the cause is likely complex. Some evidence links the cause to a dysfunctional childhood, such as excessive pampering, extremely high expectations, abuse or neglect. Other evidence points to genetics or psychobiology — the connection between the brain and behavior and thinking." Source: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/narcissistic-personality-disorder/DS00652/DSECTION=symptoms Hope this helps. -- istp
A41 MMM, well ESTPs are people who love fun, entertainment, exploring new things and doing extreme stuff and adventure. I think their interests that I mentioned before makes them being rigid, hard as a rock an very proud of themselves. They dominant extroverted sensing makes them exprience a lot of sensorial adventures! They need for physical fun is so big that makes them feel so centered on themselves. In fact, a lot of badly developed ESTPs are very narcissistic, becaus of their need of physical beauty (again this is due to the Extroverted Sensing). ESTPs with a developed Introverted Thinking will be MUCH MORE cautious of their surroundings. Do don't blame them! their as good as any personltiy type! And I'm a INFJ! -- jdmn
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