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| Questions & Answers |
| Question #1249162624 | Saturday, 1-Aug-2009 |
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| How well do you think an INTP and an ENFP would do in a relationship? -- ENFP |
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| A1 At the beginning, very well, but the problem is you cannot be yourself in an Illusionary relationship. It works through speaking (your Te and Fi match) but not so well in actions. You experience physical and mental closeness, but sometimes the closeness is so close that you are not able to maintain respect for each other any more. If you spend a lot of time together, this may even go as far as hurting each other. Causing pain to your partner comes more naturally in Illusionary relations than in any other. You also bring less and less new S information which results in the partners feeling like closed in a small world. When I communicate with my Illusionary, it works more or less well, as you can feel like real soulmates and your Illusionary can give you feeling of safety and periods of euphoria, but in the long run the partners start to miss their Duals as the needs of their Dual-seeking functions are not fulfilled. I know one ENFp-INTp relationship and to me it looks quite painful. -- Ezis (ESFp) |
| A2 I'm current;y in a relationship with and INTP, and I can see the dangers A2 mentioned all too well. Granted, we're both teens (I'm 16 and he'll be 17 next month) and we've encountered some barriers that haven't really let us spend as much time as we'd like lately, so both of us are becoming a bit distant and moody. I'm hoping it'll change once we can actually date, but now I'm not so sure I wanna go for it anymore. Aside from being ENFP, I also suffer from low levels of self-esteem which I feel could be potentially harmful to the relationship, i.e., wanting more from him that he is able to supply. He knows he is not very good at expressing his feelings and I have accepted this mentally, but I still need the affirmation, which I am afraid to ask for because I feel it'll be considered 'needy' by him. It's frustrating and I keep wanting to break up with him to spare us both the pain, but at the same time I think if we really, really, really work at it, we can make it work. I really would like to get to know him better, and I'm hoping both of us'd have the perseverance to make it work. Also, regarding your (A2) comment about the physical and mental closeness, I feel the potential for things to go too far, especially physically. We haven't done anything major yet, but looking at both of us, I could totally see it. Why is that, I wonder? -- Teenage ENFp |
| A3 Because you're teenagers. -- Anonymous |
| A4 A2: This feeling "if we really, really work at it, we can make it work" I have come to recognize as very dangerous. It is exactly the symptom of the relationship in which you cannot be 100% yourself. You have to work to make the relationship exist. (The Lithuanian site says that Illusionary relations are "an illusion of a relationship".)You dont have that feeling in more-or-less-well working Dual relationships. In them, the relationship exists and works by itself and you only solve one specific problem at a time for it not to stop working. Therefore you are not so drained and have energy for the activities that maintain your identity. Also in the long run, you need a relationship in which you can almost not notice your partner for several days working on all your tasks and solving the problems life brings, and still feel strong love to him/her. But in Illusionary relationships, you need to assure your partner of your affections very often. That is very romantic, much more romantic than in a Dual relationship, and according to socionika.lt and my experience, it is very rewarding. A well-managed Illusionary relationship is an important experience because you learn how to support your partner, reassure him/her their weaknesses are not that bad, learn how to be more tender and to make your inadequacies less sharp. The difference from Dual relationships is that everything I mentioned is conscious - you have to work on it and though partners feel they will learn how to do this automatically, they never learn. So it brings a kind of blurred feeling of unfulfilled task "I still havent learnt", not mentioning that it can happen that you unconsciously return to your natural self in a weak moment and stop being consciously supportive, and these are the situations that make Illusionary hurtful relations. I am actually going through an Illusionary relationship myself, and exactly as you write, I also feel the potential for things to go too far. I am currently struggling to keep the distance and keep it just a close friendship. (Because I know an ENFp-INTp couple and my heart bleeds everytime I see them, they are so tired of trying not to complain to the other s/he has not been supportive enough.) It is really hard for me to keep the distance from my ISTp, because I love the guy, but so far I have been successful and the relationship is more pleasant and open now than in the times when it was a dating relationship. "I suffer from low levels of self-esteem"; "I still need the affirmation" - this is what makes ENFps Duals with ISTps, because ISTps are better at expressing their feelings and supporting someone who has low self-esteem; and INTps Duals with ESFps, because INTps sometimes have problems with self-confidence themselves, also they are bad at expressing feelings and providing physical support, which is what we dont need, we usually dont have problems with self-confidence; but they are good at providing analysis of situations, which is what we need, as we are good at seeing but suck at understanding of what we saw. -- Ezis (ESFp) |
| A5 I agree with everything you said, down to the dual relationships. It is a conscious thing, succinctly described as "I still havent learned [about this person.]" Also, as you mentioned above, I got the same feeling that if we reverted back to friend mode, we could BE more open with each other, but I wouldn't be *with* him. However, I still want to try to make it work, if possible. You said that a well-managed illusionary relationship can be good for growth as a partner and a person. What does "well-managed" connotate, exactly? (And what about your relationship with your ISTP, if you don't mind me asking.) -- Saraiyna (Teenage ENFp) |
| A6 This thread sounds more like a lot of illusionary bs to me. -- Anonymous |
| A7 A5: Well of course Dual relationships take a lot of conscious effort, too. I should probably have written "take more conscious effort than Dual relationships". The thing is that in a Dual relationhsip, when you think of the ways of moving forward with the relationship or of keeping it working, what comes to your mind first and what comes most natural to you is usually also the right thing to do. While thinking of the next step to make in an Illusionary relationship is like thinking of your next step in a game of chess - you have to think of many possible combinations and even when you decide in the end, you are not sure it is the best decision. The difference between making a Dual and an Illusionary relationship grow is: in Dual relationhsip you try to develop your personality, gather the strength and think of the steps to go further on the path, while in an Illusionary relationship you develop your personality and gather the strength to build the path to be able to go further on it. Which obviously is more difficult. By a "well-managed Illusionary relationship" I meant a relationship in which you both know each other, you respect each other, you know what the status of your relationship is, you know what you and your partner want from the relationship, you have managed to resist the temptation to hurt your partner (this temptation comes frequently in an Illusionary rel.) therefore you dont do anything nasty on purpose to each other etc. I am not a native speaker so the expression "well-managed relationhsip" might not be the exact thing I had in mind. I dont mind your asking about my ISTp but I dont know exactly what you are asking about so please specify. -- Ezis (ESFp) |
| A8 When I asked about your relationship with your ISTp, I meant how do you manage it now. And as for your explanation of a "well-managed" ill. relay, [relationship]that sounds doable for me and him, but I know it won't be easy. However, I can tell there's a lot of mutual affection there between us, so, maybe it can work. -- Saraiyna (Teenage ENFp) |
| A9 A8: I see, thanks for the explanation. We agreed we will be friends, aren't exchanging any messages now, just he will come to visit me when he gets winter depression (he's Finnish). Basically we manage the relationship as I describe, just our relationship status is "friendship" only officially, because I suspect him of being in love with me, and secretly wish he finds an ENFp and is happy with her. I love him but know our backgrounds are too different, so I let my brains control my feelings (how Gamma quadra'tic of me...:-P) -- Ezis (ESFp) |
| A10 Oh, I'm sorry...:'( You must really love him... -- Saraiyna |
| A11 INTP and ENFP can be great friends, however, just like all relationships, you both have to want to work at for it work, or at the very least, grow strong roots. Without these, you will have nothing to fall back to. INTP can be alot like INTJ, however the big difference is, is that when an INTJ will criticize you for the the sake of trying to make you better, or at least into a variable which they are more comfortable with. INTP will not do this, INTP will wait till the moment is right to strike, and then, they will unleash an acidic fury of harmful words, meant only, to well, harm. At least, the INTJ usually has what is theoretically benevolent intentions. INTP is a moral person, and has their ethics, has no problem stating these ethics. But INTP can be cold, and calculating if they feel they've been hurt, or bottle up everything and let it fester unhealthily. INTP can really drag down most people with ease if they feel like it, they are good at finding weak points and striking with laser-like precision pointing out flaws and hypocrisies. So keep this in mind. All types have their ups and downs. But this relationship takes alot of mindfulness and love. If you do not have these, you will do yourselves no good. -- Marty |
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| A12 They go well enough if you are ok becoming as morbid as INTp -- Anonymous |
| *Please note that the opinions expressed are not necessarily those of socionics.com* |
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