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| Question #1239143630 | Tuesday, 7-Apr-2009 |
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| What are ESTps like in your opinion? How do interactions with them go? Problems? Why are they annoying? Why are they not annoying? ect... -- ESTp |
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| A10 Again A5, sentiments and expression seem to play a big part in your 'needs'. In any case, 'needs'in my book refers only to the nourishment I require to continue living. I don't understand why you think its 'tough love'. If it were tough love I wouldn't bother full stop with a relationship. With regards to family, kin and attachments those relationships are defined through an aspect of loyalty. Why would I want to do anything that harms my family? It is up to me to keep them out of harms way. I mean to me they seem defenseless, they wouldn't have a chance or a clue. So, unlike A5 and their type I don't focus on my own 'emotional' needs but on my practical needs and the practical needs of those around me. E.g. What do I need to make things happen? I hope that answers your questions and ends your approach to changing the ESTP mindset through a 'bleeding heart' rhetoric. It is clear that your intentions are to make us 'feel', yet what I would like to say is that maybe you should "know thyself" before undertaking the task of challenging others. Furthermore, how arrogant do you have to be in your own skills of rhetoric to even attempt to challenge the solid logic of us the ESTP. I am starting to think that you are an ENFJ. I mean who else would be foolish enough? Which answers the question on your fixation with martyrs, manipulation and romance. P.S. Regarding ISTPs as 'anti-social' was the final clue of your extroverted nature. They just want to be left alone to do their own thing. So let them! Stop bugging them with the unecessary drivel of your 'emotional' needs. -- Anonymous |
| A11 ESTPs are smooth-talking bastards. (for guys, that is). -- Anonymous |
| A12 OK to A9 first: you describe rships as 'interesting'...p'haps you're not aware that that seems to indicate a certain level of superficiality in knowledge...if you don't understand or know something very well - i.e. ESTp's in the case of 'emotionality' and 'attachment' - then that probably makes it easy to dismiss the thing as 'irrelevant'. btw, i don't know that 'deep' and 'emotional' are quite the same thing, as you seem to think...you can have a deep understanding of someone, but not care for them. and vice versa, you can feel and care strongly for someone, but have a very limited understanding of them. to A10: i'm not an ENFj and i'm not an extrovert. i have to say your 'solid logic' in the area of making inferences about ppl based on their expression maybe isn't as strong as you describe. i don't doubt that ESTp's have good deductive logic; don't know about inferential logic though. maybe when it comes to practical matters, yes... i never said to focus on emotional wants at the exclusion of physical needs...i've no idea how much you do to meet your family's physical needs (it sounds like a lot), and i'll admit, being a 'dependent' living with my parents, i don't have much experience in those sort of duties beyond cleaning the house and cooking a few times a week, so it's probably a lot harder than i imagine. it's very admirable that you focus on your own practical needs and the practical needs of your family. i don't for a second undermine that. but funny how you say 'my book', it perhaps doesn't regularly occur to you that other ppl have their own wants, desires, insecurities, etc, and that a lot of ppl do benefit significantly from some sort of moral support at some pt in their lives at least (and that it's not such a hard and strenuous thing to do to give that support). i never meant to imply that emotional fulfilment is a 'need'. you're taking that word out of the context in which i said it. or you just completely misinterpretted. but hey, maybe emotional and spiritual fulfilment is a need (of course, not for ESTp's apparently)...i wouldn't dismiss it as an important part of mental health, and health as a whole, and well, ppl's happiness and sense of leading a meaningful existence. at the very least, it is a 'bonus'. i'd rather see myself and others fulfil their dreams and 'souls'' desires (on top of meeting physical needs) than not fulfil them. as for my calling ISTp's 'antisocial'...you basically defined antisocial in your description of them as 'wanting to be left alone'. i never meant that term as a pejorative anyhow; it's more a neutral observation. i'm not against ppl wanting to be left alone. it's the rudeness and lack of consideration for others (that i've noticed in most of the ISTp's that i've come across) that grates. the only time i ever 'bugged' an ISTp was to ask them to complete their part of a group assignment (which they did, but to a really low quality). finally, it sounds like you don't actually know what 'tough love' means. to be honest, i'm not so sure i know what it means either, but here's a real story that might explain it: an ESTp once wanted to shoot a film. the script was mediocre at best, but he was so confident in himself that he thought it would be a big hit if he spent lots of cash funding it and hired lots of pro's (which he did, out of his high salary). the film got into a few festivals, but, predictably, didn't win anything, and basically bombed. the guy was probably pretty disappointed, but apparently, two years since the completion of the shoot, is STILL working on re-edits...what is the right thing to do? A) told him that his script is just not that good, and that it needs lots of work, and that in its present state, it's prob not worth spending money on. this might crush his feelings and bruise his ego, but would save him a lot of time, money, and energy B) let him make his own mistakes and learn the hard way. Both options are what i would call 'tough love' b/c either way he's gonna get disappointed, but if i were his good friend, i'd prob go with A over B, even though option A might make him feel bad about himself temporarily. ideally, in such a case, i would gently hint at the shortcomings of the script, but if that didn't work, i'm not sure what would then be the best thing to do... -- S |
| A13 Good rant. By choosing option A you demonstrate why the INTP serves as a balance to the ESTP's 'whole heartedness'. His arrogance can be his own worst enemy. In this respects 'tough love' is a necessary action for the effective development of an ESTP. I agree with the ISTP lazyness, which is what you should've written rather than anti-social. With regards to flights of thought, if I didn't appreciate their power I would not have fallen for an INFP. However, the difference is that I make dreams a reality through my efforts, I am not happy dreaming. With regards to 'solid logic' it cannot be built from a few exchanges but rather through a prolonged period of observation. There fore, it was unlikely that I would get it right first time, but in getting it wrong more information would be revealed. -- Anonymous |
| A14 laziness eh...hmm. ISTp's aren't so lazy when their own interests are at stake, but when it's other ppl's, it's a different story. but enough about them... re. 'solid logic', so you were basically provoking me in order to compel a response? you know, i would have responded anyways, with or without being provoked. so do you mean to say that i'm an INTp...? or was that just a comment on intertype r'ships in general. in any case, i'm not a T (as was evident by my previous posts' excessive emotionality). That you, and ESTp's in general, have the willpower to make dreams a reality is laudable. I don't know where you guys get all that fire from. -- S |
| A15 It should be self evident that this fire comes from ambition. My comment on INTPs was to demonstrate a point about having someone there to reign in the tendency towards arrogance. I honestly don't know what type you are, but guessing how you abmire our fire I would have to hedge my reasoning on INFP. The friend in your example (I'm guessing) is someone you care about, if not it wouldn't have been on your mind. One important point, back to your question in A12, is that the 'doer' achieves through hard work, but that does not mean that the project he/she has dedicated his/her time to is worth doing. Something I picked up from an ISTP. -- Anonymous |
| A16 I know ppl who are really ambitious but don't get much done b/c they either have naturally low energy levels, get too easily distracted, or are burdened by the notion of perfection, or some other problem - point being, ambition and drive/fire are distinguishable (tho intimately related). now that i think about it, i think for the ESTp, their fire/drive comes from a combination of ambition, not seeing what could go wrong (short-sightedness you could say, lol), a stubborn critical temperament (towards those who tell them that things could go wrong), and having naturally high energy levels. And also, being naturally good at picking up facts and procedural skills, they're not easily daunted by most tasks. The guy i mentioned wasn't a friend, but a controversial class member. i think i felt kinda sorry for him, and kinda in admiration as well...i guess i'm intrigued by ESTp's in general b/c their either my dual or my contrary (not sure if i'm INFp or j, i have qualities of both). What you say explicitly about 'doers' is basically what i was trying to convey implicitly about ESTp's in that story. to finish the story (b/c there's more characteristic ESTp behaviour to note)...though he got lots and lots of class members to work on his film (including the first assistant director for MY film - she had to miss a few hours of SHOOTING in my humble film to attend a PRODUCTION MEETING for HIS fantastic film) this guy didn't actually help on any other student films aside from his own. i heard also that his largely unpaid crew had to put a lot of extra hours (shooting, and in meetings) for the film, that the shooting schedule was insanely ambitious and, i wouldn't be surprised if it went way overtime. oh, and he put his own name in the credits quite a few times, which probably had the opposite of the intended effect on quite a few ppl. -- S |
| A17 *contradictory (or whatever it's called - the direct opposite type), not contrary -- S |
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| A18 ESTPs are what ISTPs long to be. -- ISTpJim |
| A19 Really? that's interesting...what's stopping ISTp's from being more like ESTp's then? apart from lower energy levels, and the concern about doing things wrong/making mistakes... -- S |
| A20 In all honesty, I would say INFP. Your distaste for ISTPs is enough to warrant you the INFP. In my dealings with them I find them much like jabba the hut...wallowing in their own crepulence. Well enough bitching for now, I hope your identity crisis has been resolved, however, this particular ESTP has clearly never been challenged or else he wouldn't be so arrogant and self centred. A veteran like myself now knows that I found my INFP when I came to terms and understood the importance of moral sentiments. Thank is when the ESTP stops being a mere wheeler dealer and becomes a human being. -- Anonymous |
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