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| Questions & Answers |
| Question #1180025174 | Thursday, 24-May-2007 |
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| I am an ENTj and I want to know What is the my weaknesses that makes ISTp be my supervisor, since I am dating an ISTp now -- Anonymous |
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A14 @ A13: Probably the most profound and non-trivial theory from social science that I can think of is comparative advantage in economics. Specialize in your comparative advantage and trade for everything else to achieve maximum benefit. Why do I bring this up? I can’t stress enough that if you’re an ENTj, you shouldn’t be like, “but I’m almost an ENTp!” so you can justify knowing how to handle an ISTp. This is crazy talk! Because why? You’re an ENTj. How does it benefit you to compare yourself to Alphas? You probably knew how pointless that would be the first time you thought of it. If you’re trying to acquire ENTp skills like “handling people” the way they do, then Socionics has probably led you astray at this point. Because what do ENTps have that you would want that for? 1) They have Ne dominant, which is the only function that controls 2 quadrants (ENTps’ and ENFps’ main function); and 2) Their access to Fe gives them certain leverage with Betas (and Socionic status, of course). But if you’re an ENTj, you can calculate your advantage in the real world. You are the most dynamic type period. You don’t need to waste time being led around by some static perceiving function. And, most likely, you’re already painfully aware of all the ways that Fe isn’t helping everyone around you that’s trying to use it. I can see why you want to know whether you can acquire some ENTp skills out of curiosity. I can empathize with the desire to see if you can. I’ve tried to see if I can do what ENTps do before, trust me. We love to learn and we love a challenge. I’m the same way. But don’t fall into the trap of believing you need to be able to do it like they do in order to have mad skills. That’s how ENTp capitalizes against you. Don’t think you will always be socially unacceptable if you don’t have crazy diplomatic abilities like INFps, despite the fact INFps probably believe that. If ISFps think ENTjs are intolerably arrogant and ENTps are lovably arrogant, don’t think it’s some masterful trick ENTps have pulled that you haven’t figured out yet. There’s no trick. If typing everyone then interpolating all of your relationships through Socionics has you down, you’ve handicapped yourself … because you’re no ENTp. Oh no. When ENTps fail, it’s another crackpot experiment gone awry, and it’s probably a funny joke too. Nevermind all that. When ENTjs fail, well … look at the global economy right now. Don’t tell us to worry about our manners and take ourselves less seriously so we can be accepted by people. I don’t think it’s really in anyone’s interest to have the ENTjs of the world give up and try to start thinking like a pack of Alphas, but maybe I’m wrong  We have our game and we’re gonna play it. -- Anonymous |
| A15 A13: I can say from experience that your advice "control by not controlling them and trying to stay neutral when they are obviously doing mistakes" - this definitely works. But IMHO, for the sake of anyone else who might be reading this, it's bad advice. Seriously, don't try it. It's a phenomenal waste of time and energy. Especially in a relationship context, if you personally have rules about what kinds of mistakes the other person can make, you shouldn't allow the ISTp to make a bunch of mistakes and then continue the relationship just so you will have the opportunity to make a point about how you can control them. ISTps are stubborn enough that your effort far exceeds the returns and in the end you won't accomplish anything real. -- Anonymous |
| A16 I am an ENTJ and I have found that how you get an ISTP to respect you and thus warm up to you is by treating them as an equal. You cannot dominate them. They tend to switch off or go away. It takes appreciation rather than arrogance to get them to do what you want. Note how they like to fix things. -- HumbleDOG |
| A17 I have ENTj friends and have no problems communicating with them. But we live our own lives and meet occasionally. The way ISTp supervises ENTj is Si. ENTj's are always busy as hell, very often sacrifice simple pleasures of life for the sake of some distant goal. Sharing the same life ISTp would cut ENTj's wings: "Why not just enjoy life here and now? If you're gonna be a milionaire in 10 years, but you work 25 hours a day for entire 10 years - it's wasted years. You scratched them out of your life". -- Cynic (ISTp) |
| A18 I'm an ENTp and one of my best friends is ISTp. I like to relax and talk about simple stuff once in a while. I enjoy the level headed view on life provided by my friend ISTp. He works in landscaping, and has no crazy ambitions, but he is happy. As an ENTp, I can relate to that. There is no need for crazy success and huge payoffs. Being content can be good enough. Not necessarily for me, but i get it! I need the excitement >:D -- ENTroP |
| A19 Actually, it's the other way round: you're the Supervisor of ISTps in Socionics. -- Ezis (ESFp) |
A20 A19: Uhh...no? ESFj are ISTp's supervisors in socionics. - ISTps supervise them because they don't value introverted sensing, as it is their point of least resistance (PoLR, 4th function). It's an ISTp's leading function, which gives them a feeling of being constantly corrected and judged. Being an ISTp, I can't understand why they're such workaholics, are always on the go, and have such rigid schedules...relative to me, of course. Their leading function, extraverted thinking, isn't given as much importance to an ISTp because it's his 2nd function. Although important and valued, it isn't as necessary to an ISTp as it is to the ENTj.   -- SLI |
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| A21 A20: Oh I see, I applied the principle of the Left Ring to everything, sorry about that. -- Ezis (ESFp) |
| A22 ISTP and ENTJ can be one of the worst relationships under the supervising relation. My brother went through alot of psychological problems when i moved in with him when i was in senior kindergarten and he was in grade 5. For 15 years ive been benefiting and hes been trying to get control. This lead to him mistyping himself 3 times. First an INTJ then an INTP and then ENTP before realizing he was an ENTJ. He went from dick to nice to dick/nice to dick( which i dont mind because this is who he is.) ENTJs needing it their way are very very very miserable people, more than ISTPs on bad days, except all the time. I don't mind my brother because hes really helped me alot in life, but i never really give him anything, much like a boss and the employee, all i give him is the cheq(in this case acknowledging his existence.) I would avoid this relationship as ENTJs have bad relationships, and even though i want to have a good relationship with my brother, even though i love his presence, my brother cant handle me being the one to get everything and he gets nothing in return. Picture an employee trying to overthrow and ruin his boss, the boss finding out and still urges the employee to work, Then the employee simply can not accept this and has inner hatred/problems with the boss and forces himself to leave. This is my relation with an ENTJ anyway, its different from person to person i suppose. -- ISTP |
| A23 ENTJ here, I love ISTPs. Why? 1. We give each other space 2. If we have something serious to talk about, we're direct with each other and there might be a fight but we'll joke about it quickly 3. We both have a morbid sense of humor 4. ISTPs know we're not that rigid inside, they know that we are rigid because we have insane need to organize 5. ENTJs know ISTPs are not really dumb mutes, they are incredibly talented in the logical area inside. -- ENTJWarlord |
A24 i am an ISTP dating with my beloved ENTJ. nice relationship - intensive, passionate, etc. and yes ... he was trying to dominate and controll. i had to draw a line and teach him not to overstep it immediately without negotiations or compromises. violation of my personal space is not allowed. it wasn't the most pleasant conversation but it was necessary. so far it works and he didn't violate the rules. we love each other deeply. he is perfect  -- Anonymous |
| A25 It sounds like you istp's just don't know how to reel in your entj's =). Mine can be bossy but you let them know that isn't acceptable and to bring it down a notch. Treat them like you would your children. It works if they care about you and what you think. Learn to beat them at debates and arguments. They aren't out to destroy, just to challenge. Yes, they can be demeaning, but you have to set boundaries and they will improve on communication. Work with them and they are willing and able. I am better because of my entj. -- Cathy |
| A26 What I see in ENTj as far as weakness?? Is a denial of the self or game play. Can see right through that. We see when you aren't being "fair" and we see what you "value". Sometimes ENTj can confuse the two. We keep you consistent in the outer world where your actions ideally should reflect your own values and when that doesn't that involves calling you out. -- Anonymous |
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