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  #61  
Old 03/06/2008, 11:48 AM
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You might be in the BLUE in spiral dynamics.

Can I have more opinions about my type? Do you still believe ESTp is possible? What are all the possibilities? Which impressions do I give you?
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Last edited by complicater-complexer; 03/06/2008 at 11:48 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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  #62  
Old 03/06/2008, 12:29 PM
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CC I mean you could be ESTp but if your asking for an impression than ESTp isn't the impression I get. From what I can tell from what you have said about yourself from time to time, you definitely seem like an introvert. You thought maybe ISTp was a possibility, but do you think you could be INTp?
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  #63  
Old 03/06/2008, 01:32 PM
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Well, I have to read the description and see.
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  #64  
Old 03/06/2008, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Prometheus View Post
Why? You know that the four dichotomies are the same in both Socionics and MBTT, don't you? And since they are, that in itself is enough to prove that there can be no j/p switch. And if you compare type descriptions, you will realize that the ISTJ is clearly an ISTj (LSI) and not an ISTp (SLI). The same goes for the ISFJ, which is very clearly an ISFj (ESI) and not an ISFp (SEI). The situation is not as obvious for the N types, but when you look at reality, when you look at the real types and their interactions with other types, the ABCD=ABCd is confirmed.
I get what you're saying. It still doesn't make sense, but that's not your fault. It's the Myers-Briggs system and the blasted J/P dichotomy - which, from what I understand, wasn't even a part of MB until the test came about. Are irrational/rational and perceiving/judging the same thing? I'm not so sure.
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  #65  
Old 03/06/2008, 04:10 PM
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Are irrational/rational and perceiving/judging the same thing? I'm not so sure.
Rationality (Judging)

The person who has such sign, makes leveled rhythm of life in consecutive order. He subordinates all actions of a definite succession, decomposes everything in own definite order. He follows by a definite way, it is difficult to make him change his mind. He usually plans his actions beforehand and in each situation follows his plan or schema. He legibly imagines what will do during a day. But if it is necessary to rebuilt under the the inflected conditions and circumstances he straines, making a lot of efforts, for is disturbed the measure of actions. Therefore it often happens, that the circumstances have already changed but the person prolongs to think and to act according to the pre-positioned plan, that results him in due course in blind corner. It is possible to call it as peculiar "bit seizure".

He will not do several acts synchronously, he works without changing the marked plan, therefore he starts new operation only after completion the previous one, othervise it beats him out from a track. He stands ostinately on his own, does not revise his stands, tends to be the a master of a position. He holds on to principles, established rules and norms, respects traditions and customs. He follows his own understanding in everything, if he has already judgement on the person, perceives him like he thinks about him, instead of perceiving him according to his behavior. The words: "The Person in a case" are about the rational person.

He sets the operating instructions, does not search for new methods and alternatives, does not charge himself with new situations, gives advantage to the old tested ways, for he is a little conservative.

He insists on timeliness beginning of implementation of operation, he wants the operation to be carried out methodically, sequentially. He abides the order, he is punctual, accurate, precise and hopes to find these qualities in others. He puts each thing on its own place and wants to see it right there. He writes down about things which should make, sometimes writes a diary. He holds on to the order on the job and at home, irritates when somebody sidetracks him.

Rational rerson has his own style, which is characterized by regularity and constancy. Any unplanned variation can call rough reaction.


Irrationality (Perceiving)

Having such sign the person quickly accepts and values a situation. But he does not come into it at once, some time looks narrowly at the created conditions, only then makes a choice. He will not hurry with the conclusions: to reach something, it is necessary for him to ripen and to feel an internal jerk: "it is time". If he accepts a situation, it is easy for him to find his own place. Due to his impulsiveness and flexibility he easy tailored for nonconstant circumstances. He considers that a development of events will put everything on the places. In a desperate situation he does not loose himself and does not depend on confluences of circumstances, he easy does smoothly varying transferring and goes out of it. He demonstrates diverse alternatives, stages of a development of events. If it is necessary to leave from an uncomfortable situation, he acts even more quickly, and stops to be active as soon as purpose is reached.

He can hold down some situations under check. He selects at present moment the most effective situation, the most optimal one and changes one plans by others if it is necessary. He starts to do synchronously several matters, does them simultaneously, begining with one matter and switching over to the other, successfully completing everything. As a rule he acts according to a situation and does not overstrain himself with the plans and terms of implementation of operations. He easily goes on mutual concessions.

He never prepares for any matter beforehand. Never retries in operation, do everything extempore. He can delay with matters, sidetrack them to the last minute, relying on his inspiration, the skill to improvise, or happy case. He tries to find new, unusual methods and does not use the old ones.

The abstractions during operation do not foil. All operatings depend on his mood, and the smallest jerk becomes a source of inspiration absorbing in a matter, thus the pace of work is inflected. Having undergone defections he easily switch over to something else. Thus undertakes a great many of matters, which are even little bound among themselves.

He ignores conventional traditions, rigid systems, rules and standard routines. The necessity to hold on to the plan steadily disturbs him. He manages well with sudden and extreme situations. He bents to looking for alternatives and miscellaneous approaches. At a solution of a problem he discovers multi-variant approach. He respects the order, but it is pleasant for him to convert each work into an entertainment, if the work is uninteresting it loses its sense.

The indorsement for fruitful life is everything which can bring novelty and variety. The sudden random variations during a day promote capacity for work, for he requires a choice of operatings, probable alternatives of behavior, relationships between the people, phenomena, things. The extreme situations inspire him and if it is necessary he works with availability also in after-hour time.
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  #66  
Old 04/06/2008, 01:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prometheus View Post
Rationality (Judging)

Irrationality (Perceiving)

.

I take it prom that you are the rational type.
This would explain your such greeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaat need for closure.

Also it was funny (really funny) listening to you argue with intjWurm.

I think you might be an ESTj. You have sucha high need for objective closure. This is clearly obvious in your comments. Sometimes ESTjs are recognized for their enforcing of the established code"nature....exactly what you seem to want to do.

If intjWurm is the INTp that myself, RSVp, and cyclops have estimated him to be, and you are the ESTj then the relationship would be one of supervision. I thought he done a great job supervising your comments. Also losing touch of your inferior Fi may get the best of you sometimes.




just a suggestion. (obviously this is just a prelim analysis)
(let me guess, i'm a moron and i'm completely wrong, wrong, and wrong, is this not Te talking on behalf of the injured Fi----how did i not see that coming)
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  #67  
Old 04/06/2008, 02:21 AM
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Originally Posted by kensi View Post
I take it prom that you are the rational type.
This would explain your such greeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaat need for closure.
Does the description fit your understanding of the differences between J and P or not?
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  #68  
Old 04/06/2008, 02:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Prometheus View Post
Does the description fit your understanding of the differences between J and P or not?
it always did ever since i read similar things about it
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  #69  
Old 04/06/2008, 02:34 AM
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Originally Posted by kensi View Post
it always did ever since i read similar things about it
Where have you read similar things about it? What reading material are you talking about?
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  #70  
Old 04/06/2008, 02:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prometheus View Post
Where have you read similar things about it? What reading material are you talking about?
various socionics sites.
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  #71  
Old 04/06/2008, 02:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kensi View Post
various socionics sites.
So, you said that it fits your understanding of J and P. Which means that you accept that there is not J/P switch between Socionics and MBTT, and that there cannot be any switch. Do you understand that that is logically implied in what you have said? Can your brain process that kind of information?
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  #72  
Old 04/06/2008, 02:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prometheus View Post
Does the description fit your understanding of the differences between J and P or not?
This forum is for everyone and you should should let people make their points and try to understand them, without harassing them and scorning them simply because you happen to be well informed or because you believe you know better. You claim you are objective but your personal view is not worth much in comparison to the eyes that keep watching you and your actions. We are not working for you. We are working for us.
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  #73  
Old 04/06/2008, 02:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prometheus View Post
Which means that you accept that there is not J/P switch between Socionics and MBTT, and that there cannot be any switch.
why do you jump to conclusions, i never said that i accept the above.....why not just ask me if i accept it?


explain why i should accept it, please.
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  #74  
Old 04/06/2008, 03:13 AM
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Originally Posted by kensi View Post
why do you jump to conclusions, i never said that i accept the above.....why not just ask me if i accept it?


explain why i should accept it, please.
How can I possibly explain it to you in a more simple form than I have already done? If you are unable to understand the most basic ideas, there is not much I can do to help you, I'm afraid.
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  #75  
Old 04/06/2008, 03:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Prometheus View Post
How can I possibly explain it to you in a more simple form than I have already done? If you are unable to understand the most basic ideas, there is not much I can do to help you, I'm afraid.
you havn't even started the explanation, just how perceptive can you be ?(sorry)
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  #76  
Old 04/06/2008, 03:29 AM
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you havn't even started the explanation, just how perceptive can you be ?(sorry)
I can not be that perceptive. There's a limit to most things in life. You need to start from scratch, because you don't seem to have grasped anything of importance yet. You could start with this site. There is plenty of basic information there for you to read, and hopefully some day you will also understand some of it.
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  #77  
Old 04/06/2008, 03:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Prometheus View Post
I can not be that perceptive. There's a limit to most things in life. You need to start from scratch, because you don't seem to have grasped anything of importance yet. You could start with this site. There is plenty of basic information there for you to read, and hopefully some day you will also understand some of it.
I'm asking you time and time again to come up witha model and then further it with explanations and theories, and not confuse the two at the same time
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  #78  
Old 04/06/2008, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by kensi View Post
I'm asking you time and time again to come up witha model and then further it with explanations and theories, and not confuse the two at the same time
In case you haven't noticed, there is already a model. Why should I invent a new one? Try to understand the one we are discussing first. You certainly don't do that now. It's a waste of time to try to explain things to you, becuase you have such a limited and erroneours previous knowledge of Socionics. Read the material on this site, please.
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  #79  
Old 04/06/2008, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prometheus View Post
In case you haven't noticed, there is already a model. Why should I invent a new one? Try to understand the one we are discussing first. You certainly don't do that now. It's a waste of time to try to explain things to you, becuase you have such a limited and erroneours previous knowledge of Socionics. Read the material on this site, please.
there's a couple different models, i just wanted to hear your take on them or it(I am familiar with the stuff here, just been away a long time from using it outside of my own inter-personal realm)
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