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  #41  
Old 02/11/2009, 02:10 PM
mihai_m mihai_m is offline
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Only 1 thing it doesn't look like he belongs to Gamma
But... but if he's not Gamma he can't be the Dual of his INTP wife, so they can't live happily ever after as the storytellers say .

Edit: no offense cafeclutz, your dad is awesome, it's just an irony towards the typing trends.
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  #42  
Old 02/11/2009, 04:16 PM
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Only 1 thing it doesn't look like he belongs to Gamma
And yet the evidence suggests that he belongs to Gamma, because that is supposed be the place where the ESFps tend to hang around ... Is there something wrong with the socionic theory of the quadras, maybe ...?
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  #43  
Old 02/11/2009, 06:17 PM
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But... but if he's not Gamma he can't be the Dual of his INTP wife, so they can't live happily ever after as the storytellers say .

Edit: no offense cafeclutz, your dad is awesome, it's just an irony towards the typing trends.
True, but the wife could be INFp for what we know.
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  #44  
Old 02/11/2009, 07:18 PM
mihai_m mihai_m is offline
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True, but the wife could be INFp for what we know.
That could have been a human error, after all can be easily replaced with , with a bit of goodwill. But like that...
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  #45  
Old 02/11/2009, 07:40 PM
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I've seen ISFp male INFp female couples before...at least twice.
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  #46  
Old 02/11/2009, 10:45 PM
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I've seen ISFp male INFp female couples before...at least twice.
INFp-ESTp semi-duality is just as likely, if not more so.
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  #47  
Old 02/11/2009, 10:59 PM
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INFp-ESTp semi-duality is just as likely, if not more so.
I'm sorry, but if we are talking about the same dad here, ESTp is totally out of the question. There is not a chance in a million that he is a T type.
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  #48  
Old 03/11/2009, 12:26 AM
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INFp-ESTp semi-duality is just as likely, if not more so.
I guess it is a simple typo, and I actually missed the semi the first time I read it. Never be in a hurry when you post something -- I catch myself breaking that rule once in a while.
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  #49  
Old 03/11/2009, 09:09 AM
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I guess it is a simple typo, and I actually missed the semi the first time I read it. Never be in a hurry when you post something -- I catch myself breaking that rule once in a while.
Heh, yeah it was a typo; I meant INFp-ESFp.
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  #50  
Old 03/11/2009, 09:20 AM
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Only 1 thing it doesn't look like he belongs to Gamma
Which quadra do you believe he belongs to and why? What is you're objections with him being in the Gamma quadra?
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  #51  
Old 03/11/2009, 12:44 PM
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Which quadra do you believe he belongs to and why? What is you're objections with him being in the Gamma quadra?
Well, I've seen enough ESFps to notice that he doesn't quite fit that image. But that just me. On the other hand in 2 Introvert relationship 1 always takes the role of an Extrovert, I guess we know who that is in your case, hence possible mistyping into E.
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  #52  
Old 10/11/2009, 11:17 PM
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Looking at this link it is clear that dad is ESFp as he fits everything written!
Dad agrees. He also read ISFp description on the site and it didnt fit.

http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Filatova_SEE
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  #53  
Old 10/11/2009, 11:40 PM
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Looking at this link it is clear that dad is ESFp as he fits everything written!
Dad agrees. He also read ISFp description on the site and it didnt fit.

http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Filatova_SEE
Cool! You might also have him look at this one. http://socionics.ws/wiki/index.php?title=SEE
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  #54  
Old 11/11/2009, 10:32 AM
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Yes, ESFp, I am always right.
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  #55  
Old 11/11/2009, 10:40 AM
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Cool! You might also have him look at this one. http://socionics.ws/wiki/index.php?title=SEE
Dad still agrees with this ESFp write up over the ISFp one. It wasn't a hard choice he says.
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  #56  
Old 14/12/2009, 12:34 PM
mihai_m mihai_m is offline
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We have an female ESFj friend who fits the descriptions very well. She tends to complain, is hardly ever happy and is very self focused on having all the things she wants in life, always wants more and better and is very verbal about it. Dad is not like her at all. He is generally a very happy positive person who is happy with the basics so long as he has his big 'toys'.
A very good observation. The ESFj's I know are like that, their order is asked/imposed compulsively, like in "I want it all, I want it now". ESTj's don't mind things to stay "imperfect" for a while, as long as they stick to the plan - in the future they look perfect .

Not trying to be popular with the opinion you already expressed in the other thread, that your dad is ESTj, but looking through the issues in this light, it makes much more sense. He seems to have much Si, but his Fe especially that Fe/j impatience is almost impossible to detect. Fe/j's talk too much about things people call ideal, although they are scheduled, they are impulsive in following the plans - as soon as possible - because of a fear of not accomplishing them, while Te/j's do everything at the given scheduled moment with confidence.

So, in other words, I'd say that goals for ESFj are queued, goals for ESTj are scheduled. ESTj can stay with belongings in the middle of the house in waiting for the schedule, ESFj can't, one thing follows another. This is explainable through the fact that ESTj is Aristocratic (work time =/= relax time, they are strictly separated) while ESFj Democratic (work and relaxation are not strictly separated, things have to be done as soon as one can do them).
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  #57  
Old 14/12/2009, 12:43 PM
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A very good observation. The ESFj's I know are like that, their order is asked/imposed compulsively, like in "I want it all, I want it now". ESTj's don't mind things to stay "imperfect" for a while, as long as they stick to the plan - in the future they look perfect .
I thought i'd post to agree with this. I've dated an ESFj before and the "I want it all" became more apparent in this closer interaction. I'm not sure they seem that way from a distance so it sounds like cafeclutz and co know the ESFj quite well.

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So, in other words, I'd say that goals for ESFj are queued, goals for ESTj are scheduled. ESTj can stay with belongings in the middle of the house in waiting for the schedule, ESFj can't, one thing follows another. This is explainable through the fact that ESTj is Aristocratic (work time =/= relax time, they are strictly separated) while ESFj Democratic (work and relaxation are not strictly separated, things have to be done as soon as one can do them).
Interesting explanation, I've noticed this too but haven't really considered the Reinin explanation.

I typically feel a bit uncomfortable having a "good time" while working (I know alpha's usually don't from my observations), however with my friends who I associate my down time with i'm quite relaxed and amenable to what ever fun/enjoyment/merriment comes our way.
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  #58  
Old 14/12/2009, 01:10 PM
mihai_m mihai_m is offline
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Interesting explanation, I've noticed this too but haven't really considered the Reinin explanation.
I don't remember to read this explanation... But this behaviour is noticeable in the types in those quadras, from my experience, I have no doubt about it. What I disagree are the names, Aristocratic and Democratic mean in general something pretty different, but whatever they are somehow describing what it is.

It is straightforward to notice where these differences of attitudes come from: Aristocratic have both Internal (N, F) or External (S, T) in the same block - they basically never mix anything belonging to Internal j/p (speculation, subjectivity, desires, intuition, feeling) with the External j/p (practical, obvious, depending on the environment, objective, palpable). In Dual relationships they follow the initiative of only one of the partners: they either dream, fantasize without doing real things or stay "awake" and do things without involving subjectivity.

As of Democratics: Gammas are all the time accomplishing things, even at home, Alphas do always what they like, even at work . Now seriously, Alphas are the most sensible and very vocal about the jobs they choose, they intend to do only what they like, don't like the idea of wasting a part of life working, so work time must become free time if they do what they like - they'd have done it anyway. Gammas are the most flexible and can do anything because life for them is doing things in a determined manner, what they do is a matter of choice anyway and there is no difference between work and doing something else - with the same drive for accomplishment - in free time.
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  #59  
Old 14/12/2009, 10:55 PM
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He has an internal job check list that he ticks off as things are accomplished. Sometimes he makes you feel that you are a job on job check list.
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Basically he has a list of goals that he decides have to be completed within a certain time frame and he doesn't stop to think very often about what others may need to do or how they are feeling. His goals/missions becomes top priority.
At home dad schedules in his head what needs to be done and when. Often the when which needs to be done is 'now'. At work he works similar but the list is written down due to it's size. He likes everything to look neat and clean and placed in it's correct spot in shared spaces in the house. He will get whoever owns a particular item that is not in it's correct spot to come and get it to put away. However he does let people organize thier own spaces however they want.
These are parts about dad that i think noone took notice of. He is very scheduled and a hard worker. He's quite bossy with having things done on his schedule. We have to stop what we are doing and do it now. We can feel like even we are jobs to him. like if we want to do something but he already had in his head that he wanted to do something else then we become a job to be ticked off list too. Or we are out and he wants to get onto next scheduled job then his attitude will make us feel like he is hurrying what we are doing so all the fun goes. He is getting slowly more patient in this area though,finally!

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Not trying to be popular with the opinion you already expressed in the other thread, that your dad is ESTj, but looking through the issues in this light, it makes much more sense. He seems to have much Si, but his Fe especially that Fe/j impatience is almost impossible to detect. Fe/j's talk too much about things people call ideal, although they are scheduled, they are impulsive in following the plans - as soon as possible - because of a fear of not accomplishing them, while Te/j's do everything at the given scheduled moment with confidence.

So, in other words, I'd say that goals for ESFj are queued, goals for ESTj are scheduled. ESTj can stay with belongings in the middle of the house in waiting for the schedule, ESFj can't, one thing follows another. This is explainable through the fact that ESTj is Aristocratic (work time =/= relax time, they are strictly separated) while ESFj Democratic (work and relaxation are not strictly separated, things have to be done as soon as one can do them).
Yes dad schedules in his mind and then expects everyone to fit in with his schedule .The problem is just because he decides something doesnt mean its right. Like we had a 2000 piece jigsaw on the table and just because he wanted the room tidied before people came over we have to pack all of our nearly finished work away. Really hard to change his mind if he has scheduled something in his head.
He always is tight with money and talks too much about it.
Not fashionable but takes good care of his clothes.
He is pragmatic.
He is a leader.
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  #60  
Old 15/12/2009, 04:37 AM
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Only 1 thing it doesn't look like he belongs to Gamma
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I've seen ISFp male INFp female couples before...at least twice.
Hi SG, is this still your view of what type my husband and myself are or has it changed?
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Last edited by Suzzy; 15/12/2009 at 04:47 AM.
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