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Old 12/05/2010, 02:46 PM
thegirlcandance thegirlcandance is offline
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Default Initial experience with duals

I'm just wondering how many people out there have dealt with people who would be considered their dual and how that initial communication was.

Was it awkward and difficult to get moving? Was it just seeming to need a few "pushes" but after that it flowed just perfectly? Was it easy right from the start?


I'm asking because right now I'm debating on whether I'm INFj or INFp. I know on the MBTI I'm INFJ for sure, but with the socionics tests it has varied between the two (go figure).
I'm just wondering because I know that I've dated an ESTj before as well as a ESTp, both of which are duals for the types I mentioned (ESTj=INFj and ESTp=INFp). So I'm just thinking maybe if I reflect on my relationships and interactions with people of those types, I can possibly figure my own.
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Old 12/05/2010, 04:24 PM
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I never dated a Dual but my best friends are: one - a Conflicting partner (ESFp) and the other one was a Dual (ESFj).

My best relationship was with a Beneficiary.

So I don't know if I'm supposed to say this, but I don't believe much in those intertype relations.
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Old 12/05/2010, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by privilege View Post
So I don't know if I'm supposed to say this, but I don't believe much in those intertype relations.
I used to be like that. There are several things you come to understand: First, relationships are complicated and based on a variety of factors other than socionics. People date/marry their conflictors. Second, the relationship descriptions are vague. They are based off of general trends of long term, close psychological distance relationships, so discrepancies can and will apply, especially if your relationship is not long term or psychologically close. Third, you need to be sure of both people's types to accurately gauge the relationship. I'm not insinuating that you're a bad typist, but no one's type list is perfect. If the types and relations don't seem to match up at all, it's not too big of a stretch to say one of the might be mistyped. For example: it's entirely possible that one of your best friends is your conflictor, but that alone might be a cause to reexamine your typing of him/her.
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So this one time me an' my bes' frien' Stan, we went to a church service. That preacher was talkin' 'bout hell. So Stan leans over to me an' he says, "I bet hell is like a PoLR hit every day."

An' I says, "Stan, you prolly right."
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Old 12/05/2010, 07:55 PM
Cyclops Cyclops is offline
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Originally Posted by privilege View Post
I never dated a Dual but my best friends are: one - a Conflicting partner (ESFp) and the other one was a Dual (ESFj).

My best relationship was with a Beneficiary.

So I don't know if I'm supposed to say this, but I don't believe much in those intertype relations.
I tend to find that people generally try to justify inter-type relations so look for other explanations when they don't go according to the formula.

Some of it may be true, ie differences in intellect, personality, position in life, physical attractiveness.

However, all of it may also be false. Rather than try to justify something to the extent that it becomes almost laughable if it were to try to stand up to scientific or a rational scrutiny, why not just say that other factors are more important than a formulaic expression of getting on with others. This conclusion is much more realistic.

For myself, I think that so many factors influence relationships that the study of other things, such as gender differences, yields more practical results, the formula of inter-type relations features somewhat down the list.

When it comes to it, the psychological type itself (the basic) isn't even scientifically verified. Observing people who have interest in socionics, those who discuss it on socionic forums frequently change their type or the typing of people they know in real life. Given the vagueness of type itself, the inter-type validity becomes even more suspect.

From my own observations, there is some people I haven't been able to type. Unless someone is good at VI (and i've only ever seen SG to be confident enough in his ability to carry this out) and if everyone does have a type, then it requires a detailed study of them (such as what Jung was able to do in his capacity as psychologist with patient) to determine it. And in matters such as work, people can act to what's required of them, so for all practical purposes typing them is not a yielding pursuit and then try to approve the inter-type relation.

There have been some duals i've got on really well with, and others I haven't. Inter-type relations I have found are something to keep in mind, but they aren't bible. It is just better to interact with people based on how you find them personally, rather than thinking that the formula is going to work then generating a whole heap of hypothesis to defend it. IMO a useful way of determining what people i'll get on with is through Heurism (ie experience). I know in past people i've clicked with, so if I see that in someone else then typically the same thing will happen. That involves personality too and doesn't necessarily negate socionic inter-type theory.

Something else, according to the inter-type theory Fe should repulse me. This isn't actually true. I actually happen to like what tends to fit a lot of the descriptions I read of Fe. Therefore there is a difference between liking a function, and valuing a function. And this complicates matters further.

Also, as a side note, i'm not even convinced of the descriptions of functions that I read, and here's why - say someone is Te 'seeking', what they may want from Te is someone who can pay all their bills for them on time, someone else looking for the same function, may want Te to have a wide range of knowledge on a subject they're interested in. So what a function is, is true only if it's true for you. Which of course makes the whole process even vaguer and calls into question the validity of socionics itself when trying to present it in a reasonable objective way. When it comes down to it, it's best application is perhaps some passing introspection that happens to be true to the individual. On that basis it's an introverted type outlook.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thegirlcandance
I'm just wondering how many people out there have dealt with people who would be considered their dual and how that initial communication was.

Was it awkward and difficult to get moving? Was it just seeming to need a few "pushes" but after that it flowed just perfectly? Was it easy right from the start?
All I can say is that like people of many different persuasions - types that sometimes it has been and sometimes it hasn't, there hasn't been a black and white unfortunately.

Last edited by Cyclops; 12/05/2010 at 08:01 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 12/05/2010, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thegirlcandance View Post
I'm just wondering how many people out there have dealt with people who would be considered their dual and how that initial communication was.

Was it awkward and difficult to get moving? Was it just seeming to need a few "pushes" but after that it flowed just perfectly? Was it easy right from the start?


I'm asking because right now I'm debating on whether I'm INFj or INFp. I know on the MBTI I'm INFJ for sure, but with the socionics tests it has varied between the two (go figure).
I'm just wondering because I know that I've dated an ESTj before as well as a ESTp, both of which are duals for the types I mentioned (ESTj=INFj and ESTp=INFp). So I'm just thinking maybe if I reflect on my relationships and interactions with people of those types, I can possibly figure my own.
In all likelihood, at least one of the people mentioned here has been mistyped.
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Old 12/05/2010, 08:39 PM
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On another note, I can like people who are kind to me, afaik that's any psychological type. That person might be better described as the 'type' that has patience with people, or just with me.
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Old 12/05/2010, 11:46 PM
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On another note, I can like people who are kind to me, afaik that's any psychological type.
ditto for me too!

there are decent & not so decent people of all types, & I think that perhaps, is more important to focus on.

I believe my dad & I have, err HAD, what is described as a conflicting relationship, but having gone through many difficult experiences together, I have come to appreciate what his strengths are. We don't fight or argue anymore, but then again, we don't have a close relationship either.

I don't know if I've ever experienced a dual relationship, so I can't really comment on the OP's question.
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Old 18/05/2010, 09:50 PM
sjy sjy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thegirlcandance View Post
I'm just wondering how many people out there have dealt with people who would be considered their dual and how that initial communication was.

Was it awkward and difficult to get moving? Was it just seeming to need a few "pushes" but after that it flowed just perfectly? Was it easy right from the start?


I'm asking because right now I'm debating on whether I'm INFj or INFp. I know on the MBTI I'm INFJ for sure, but with the socionics tests it has varied between the two (go figure).
I'm just wondering because I know that I've dated an ESTj before as well as a ESTp, both of which are duals for the types I mentioned (ESTj=INFj and ESTp=INFp). So I'm just thinking maybe if I reflect on my relationships and interactions with people of those types, I can possibly figure my own.
I just have to say that I'm an MBTI INFJ and a socionics ENFp and I keep testing INFp/j on that darned test. I think the problem is that it doesn't take into account the fact that ENFp's can be quiet/solitary.

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Originally Posted by privilege View Post
I never dated a Dual but my best friends are: one - a Conflicting partner (ESFp) and the other one was a Dual (ESFj).

My best relationship was with a Beneficiary.

So I don't know if I'm supposed to say this, but I don't believe much in those intertype relations.
You are probably mistyping yourself and/or the others.

Last edited by sjy; 18/05/2010 at 09:50 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 19/05/2010, 05:50 PM
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No, ENFp's are not quiet... at all, they're very sociable beings. You are probably not ENFp then.

And I haven't mistyped myslef, or the others. Especially myself.
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Old 22/05/2010, 03:40 AM
mihai_m mihai_m is offline
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I just have to say that I'm an MBTI INFJ and a socionics ENFp and I keep testing INFp/j on that darned test. I think the problem is that it doesn't take into account the fact that ENFp's can be quiet/solitary.
I agree with this, I mean I met both extremes. I was also typing as INTp in some tests, considering my disregard for socialization, parties, getting out, and so on.
I know ENFp's like this, painting, playing computer games, daydreaming, writing stories or poetry.
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Old 22/05/2010, 03:51 AM
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ENFPs concept of being I is ISTPs idea of external day I've found
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Old 22/05/2010, 05:59 PM
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No, ENFp's are not quiet... at all, they're very sociable beings.
Those are stereotypes, not defining conditions. Quietness and sociability aren't mutually exclusive anyway.
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So this one time me an' my bes' frien' Stan, we went to a church service. That preacher was talkin' 'bout hell. So Stan leans over to me an' he says, "I bet hell is like a PoLR hit every day."

An' I says, "Stan, you prolly right."
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Old 23/05/2010, 04:27 AM
sjy sjy is offline
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ENFPs concept of being I is ISTPs idea of external day I've found
Yes, I've found this too. ISTp's come in varied flavors as well, and one in particular that i know comes across as very sociable, and likes to think of himself that way. I'm discovering that I come across more sociable than I think I do, but how outgoing I am depends on who i'm with and what setting i'm in. That is all an MBTI understanding of extravert/intravert.

That said, I still recognize the fact that I apply intuition externally (a function that is not very verbal), reflecting back on objects, and the ISTp applies sensing internally, focusing on how objects make him feel physically. So even though to a spectator, his Te seems to be running the show, the fact remains that he is a socionics introvert. And I am a socionics extravert.
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Old 25/05/2010, 03:13 AM
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Yes, I've found this too. ISTp's come in varied flavors as well, and one in particular that i know comes across as very sociable, and likes to think of himself that way. I'm discovering that I come across more sociable than I think I do, but how outgoing I am depends on who i'm with and what setting i'm in. That is all an MBTI understanding of extravert/intravert.

That said, I still recognize the fact that I apply intuition externally (a function that is not very verbal), reflecting back on objects, and the ISTp applies sensing internally, focusing on how objects make him feel physically. So even though to a spectator, his Te seems to be running the show, the fact remains that he is a socionics introvert. And I am a socionics extravert.
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Old 25/05/2010, 09:33 AM
mihai_m mihai_m is offline
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Those are stereotypes, not defining conditions. Quietness and sociability aren't mutually exclusive anyway.
I agree with this. [I don't know whether I wrote this already]: A lot of SLIs I know make jokes (satirical, ironical, cynical, etc) all the time, some are actually socially extroverted.
I remember working with and INTp and an ISTp at one place and they were talking all the time and making jokes, I was the introverted in the group, lol. Fun.
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Old 25/05/2010, 10:11 AM
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Those are stereotypes, not defining conditions. Quietness and sociability aren't mutually exclusive anyway.
There is a lot of truth in this stereotype.

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Originally Posted by mihai_m
I agree with this. [I don't know whether I wrote this already]: A lot of SLIs I know make jokes (satirical, ironical, cynical, etc) all the time, some are actually socially extroverted.
I remember working with and INTp and an ISTp at one place and they were talking all the time and making jokes, I was the introverted in the group, lol. Fun.
Precisely. E/I can become more blurred the longer one is around a person, but if you look at their behaviour OVERALL then it really can be as simple as who talks the most. Of course there is more to extraversion than this, but it's a common manifestation in overall behaviour in 3rd and 4th dimensions (ie in place and over time).
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Old 25/05/2010, 06:49 PM
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There is a lot of truth in this stereotype.
Not enough to question a typing over if thats the only "evidence." IEEs are introspective and subdue Fe expression, so they often view themselves in an introverted light. I used to think I was unusually introverted and passive, when reality is that I am quite the opposite.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick DeLong's IEE description View Post
IEEs are warm and friendly, but not usually very externally animated or loud....IEEs usually feel awkward and shy when other people are very emotionally animate or verbally profuse around them, especially if they direct their emotional displays at the IEE. IEEs have a hard time expressing genuine emotional involvement and excitement (for example, jumping in the air and shouting “yippee” as you clap your hands) and don’t like situations where this kind of excitement and team spirit is expected of them. They feel more comfortable and confident expressing their personal sentiments one-on-one or in a small group than expressing group sentiments.
This sort of behavior is also often wrongly assumed to be uncharacteristic of IEEs.
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So this one time me an' my bes' frien' Stan, we went to a church service. That preacher was talkin' 'bout hell. So Stan leans over to me an' he says, "I bet hell is like a PoLR hit every day."

An' I says, "Stan, you prolly right."
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Old 25/05/2010, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by stanprollyright View Post
Not enough to question a typing over if thats the only "evidence." IEEs are introspective and subdue Fe expression, so they often view themselves in an introverted light. I used to think I was unusually introverted and passive, when reality is that I am quite the opposite.



This sort of behavior is also often wrongly assumed to be uncharacteristic of IEEs.
Ditto on what you said, and the excerpt from Rick's IEE description is also very characteristic of my behavior as an IEE
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Old 26/05/2010, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by thegirlcandance View Post
I'm just wondering how many people out there have dealt with people who would be considered their dual and how that initial communication was.

Was it awkward and difficult to get moving? Was it just seeming to need a few "pushes" but after that it flowed just perfectly? Was it easy right from the start?
was just thinking that, ime, the younger you are the easier it is to either identify who you think might be your dual and/or pursue a relationship with them. probably not very helpful, um, perhaps you could describe bits of these relationships you speak of later in your post...?
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Old 26/05/2010, 07:07 PM
sjy sjy is offline
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Quote:
I'm just wondering how many people out there have dealt with people who would be considered their dual and how that initial communication was.

Was it awkward and difficult to get moving? Was it just seeming to need a few "pushes" but after that it flowed just perfectly? Was it easy right from the start?
Oh i missed this post. I can put in my comment as well. My initial communication with my dual was sort of a paradox. It was surprisingly and unexpectedly straightforward and flowed like magic, but was still awkward because we live such vastly different lifestyles, have COMPLETELY different circles of friends and leisure interests, and would not really have found each other of our own accord had we not been assigned to work together on a number of occasions. He is also slightly younger than me by a couple years, and together with his frat-boy sort of lifestyle is at a point in life where he is a bit less mature than me and a different stage in life than I am, as far as what we are looking for in a relationship.

So we definitely did some dualizing and it was a very unique and special sort of interaction, but it never quite was able to materialize into a relationship of any kind, even a friendship, perhaps because of doubts from both ends. I kept doubting that he is proper boyfriend material and whether I am reading his body language correctly, he perhaps doubted how I feel about him or that I would want to pursue a relationship with the likes of him, or maybe he doubted that I would approve of or enjoy his leisure interests with him. It also didn't help that I had to move away suddenly. That certainly stopped the whole process in its tracks.

Sigh. . .a case of duals traveling in different directions, just like Aushra described.
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