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  #21  
Old 03/11/2009, 04:50 AM
mihai_m mihai_m is offline
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ISTp, ENFj, sometimes ENTp, ENFp cycles few, most close is Delta.
Re-analyzing things I found this gross typing error of mine, I meant INFj. ENFj are on the opposite pole when it comes to clothing. Sorry.
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  #22  
Old 03/11/2009, 08:24 AM
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Hey Suzanne, that's great to hear, that whole bunch of details, I'm sure that's only a very little bit, lol!
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With INFj friends I like to "teleport" in different ages or contexts, like ancient, future or alternative realities: in my teen age I had an INFj male friend to talk with about our "adventures" on an uninhabited earth (sometimes except the chicks), having full access to jets, tanks and whatever we'd like to try out .
Yes indeed, I have many romantic, alternative, ancient and futuristic scenarios floating around in my head - not just the medieval theme !

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She considers romantic life with a partner much more important than the sexual one which she tends to minimize.
I am much the same.

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She likes thin guys with long hair
Sounds good to me but lets also throw in a bit of Jeff Goldblum.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiiWKrqSStM
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  #23  
Old 03/11/2009, 09:03 AM
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she thinks she is more serious than me however maybe she should have said that i am more intense. My emotions and intensity goes up and down quickly, so i can be very bubbly and be very morbid in the same day /.../ My mum is intense when she finds something she gets excited about, and she will stop everyone in our family and share that information if shes super excited.
That pattern of behaviour is much more consistent with you being INFp and she being INTp than the way it was first described.
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  #24  
Old 03/11/2009, 08:06 PM
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Great video. I vote ENFp for Sarah
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  #25  
Old 03/11/2009, 10:26 PM
mihai_m mihai_m is offline
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Great video. I vote ENFp for Sarah
And my axe! I mean, I vote ENFp, too.
"Professional" or not, I avoided to state it clearly till now because I don't want people to interpret that I type everyone ENFp - too many on this forum already -, but now I only support what I consider to be a correct typing :P.
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  #26  
Old 03/11/2009, 10:57 PM
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Great video. I vote ENFp for Sarah
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And my axe! I mean, I vote ENFp
If this is the case, please explain further why i feel and act so introverted, even though i know that some extroverted intuitives are more introverted than Sensing people.

I look at many ENFp's on the web and they are not like me, does this mean they mistyped themselves?

If i am ENFp, why is my relationship with my mum good? Does that make her INFj or INTj?

If i have 2 introverted parents then what theories are out there to support my extroversion?

Thanks for you're help and i'm eager to hear back and figure out the truth
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  #27  
Old 04/11/2009, 12:08 AM
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We don't know exact family mechanics, but I am going to guess here is that as a child you felt that there was a great similarity between you and your mum and you obviously wanted to be like your mum and that could have made your E less obvious.

Of course this might not even be the correct guess, but I just want to tell you that I have observed people with Contrary relation to their parent often having difficulties in deciding on E/I.

Also parent child relationship has this special bond that makes it special, and has own influence on intertype relations.
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  #28  
Old 04/11/2009, 12:56 AM
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If this is the case, please explain further why i feel and act so introverted, even though i know that some extroverted intuitives are more introverted than Sensing people.
You may not be outgoing, but being Extroverted. Socionics Extroversion is not equivalent to outgoingness, loudness, high energy, but usually close.
I know very "introverted" ENFp's. For example my ex-gf, she was actually shy and imo was overthinking everything, what people think about her sayings, etc, and that made her not relaxed and constrained.

Ok, now supposing you're ENFp, I could also try to "guess" your typical behavior: imo you are very talkative with friends you know well and like to talk a lot about your problems and fantasies with them. So, if that would apply, it means you're not introverted even in the general sense of the word, but too shy, too sensible or something.
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I look at many ENFp's on the web and they are not like me, does this mean they mistyped themselves?
I don't know about this, to analyze their type would take the same amount of time, even more maybe, I consider this comparisons dangerous because of many mistypings out there.
And don't forget: use only Socionics-types examples, not MBTI or something else.
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If i am ENFp, why is my relationship with my mum good? Does that make her INFj or INTj?
Considering I'm now sure your mother is INFj, it makes perfect sense for me. She's also pretty wise (imo) - actually I was surprised how well you guys collaborate between generations - so I suppose your good relationship is not so surprising.
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  #29  
Old 04/11/2009, 07:57 AM
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If this is the case, please explain further why i feel and act so introverted, even though i know that some extroverted intuitives are more introverted than Sensing people.

I look at many ENFp's on the web and they are not like me, does this mean they mistyped themselves?

If i am ENFp, why is my relationship with my mum good? Does that make her INFj or INTj?

If i have 2 introverted parents then what theories are out there to support my extroversion?

Thanks for you're help and i'm eager to hear back and figure out the truth
Most of the evidence we have supports the conclusion that you are an INFp.
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  #30  
Old 05/11/2009, 12:47 AM
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So to narrow down whether im INFp or ENFp, i thought i'd share a problem i am having at the moment.

I am not particulartily a sentimental person. So when our year 12's had an assembly as their final goodbye thing i decided i'd sleep in, i didnt think many people would notice, but a few of my friends came up to me afterwards and asked where i was, and i told them. I could tell by their expressions they werent impressed so i tried further explaining why i didnt see the value in going. To me, i would have already moved on, i would just find the assembly annoying and prolonging the enevitable, i look at it and im so happy that the year 12's are moving on, in some way they are more free to head in the directiion they want, which school held them back from, so its not that i dont care, i just think and feel differently about situations than most people. Anyway, a few of my friends are still not happy with me, even after the explaination i gave them, they now view me as selfish, rude and disrepectful, but i never did anything to them, i just for once told a view point that i felt strongly about and for that they shun me. I keep thinking, why cant they accept my view point and feelings in this. Whenever they see or say something different from what i believe i dont start treating them any differently.

Now if i look at the span of my life, keeping in mind that i have moved often. I think i tend to drop my friends every now and again for whatever reason. I believe its cause im looking for certain people i truly click with and most don't fit, so when ive given them some time, it comes to a point where i push people away.

So thats something i struggle with, i can make friends easy just not keep them.



Also, any questions i can ask my mum to help narrow down the INTp, INFp, INFj options?
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  #31  
Old 05/11/2009, 02:32 AM
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Also, any questions i can ask my mum to help narrow down the INTp, INFp, INFj options?
Let her read and compare the Theorist (Rational) temperament http://www.4temperaments.com/theorist.html with the Catalyst (Idealist) temperament http://www.4temperaments.com/catalyst.html (only those two, no others).

Then let her compare what is said about the Rational temperament versus the Idealist temperament regarding for example Learning http://www.4temperaments.com/learning.html (at the bottom of that page), and Creativity http://www.4temperaments.com/creativity.html

Is it easy or rather difficult for her to determine for sure which of those two "temperaments" is closest to her self-image and what she thinks she is better at? Which does she identify most with and why? Why is it easy to determine? Why not?
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  #32  
Old 05/11/2009, 09:00 PM
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Direct link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwV5bae1r_I

TIP: How to embed a YouTube video...





Direct link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q6uOFpAGeY

TIP: How to embed a YouTube video...




Me-INFp or ENFp?
Mum-INTp, INFj 0r INFp?
Hannah????
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  #33  
Old 05/11/2009, 09:14 PM
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1. I have strong reasons to type Sarah as ENFp and Suzanne as INFj, and I doubt something can change that; so this is my opinion.
2. I think Hannah is a Logical Extrovert, while I don't think she's an / valuer (Decisive). So I keep in only ENTp and ESTj, from VI, discussion management and relationships she seems ESTj, but the lack of practicality and many ideas leans towards ENTp.
I stick with ESTj for Hannah.

Edit: a key difference between ENTp and ESTj is the fact that ENTp is very vocal about his/her preferences, while ESTj insist on their equidistance from people and ideologies. This is one more reason for Hannah to be rather ESTj than ENTp.

Last edited by mihai_m; 05/11/2009 at 09:20 PM.
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  #34  
Old 05/11/2009, 09:29 PM
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1. Please try to answer the questions in my last post as accurately as possible (Suz).

2. Hanna is defiinitely an extraverted type, no question about that.

3. It is extremely unlikely that Sarah is an extraverted type, she is almost certainly an introvert.

4. Suz is of course also an introvert.

5. Forget everything you've heard or read about the quadras until we have found your correct types. Don't try to determine what quadra you belong too; you will almost inevitably just mess things up.
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  #35  
Old 06/11/2009, 01:54 AM
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Let her read and compare the Theorist (Rational) temperament http://www.4temperaments.com/theorist.html with the Catalyst (Idealist) temperament http://www.4temperaments.com/catalyst.html (only those two, no others).

Then let her compare what is said about the Rational temperament versus the Idealist temperament regarding for example Learning http://www.4temperaments.com/learning.html (at the bottom of that page), and Creativity http://www.4temperaments.com/creativity.html

Is it easy or rather difficult for her to determine for sure which of those two "temperaments" is closest to her self-image and what she thinks she is better at? Which does she identify most with and why? Why is it easy to determine? Why not?
Hi Prometheus,
No it is not easy for me to determine definately which of these two temperaments is closest to my self image and what I am better at. For years I thought it was INFj but but more recently I have wondered about INTp.
Maybe if I just throw some thoughts down on paper about what I have just read in the links it will become clearer. So here goes.

About the catalyst and theorist temperaments;
I am definately theory orientated. I get excited about new theories especially ones in regards to people, medicine and the universe. I create new theories and try to combine possibilities.
I do have a precision for thought and language but have loosened up on this over the years.
Yes I feel that I am calmer than most people, women in particular but I do have my moments.
I believe in individualism. I love to see unique people, styles, etc.
I have a desire to be authentic, to be 'real'.
I feel that I am empathic but at the same time I am not a great nurse. In fact I take somewhat terrible care of myself in physical matters even- like once I fell down a flight of stairs and broke my foot but wouldn't go to the doctors because money was tight that week. And somehow I do apply this thinking to others in that if they moan too much about minor physical ailments I get a little annoyed. But if I can help I will always help not just by giving empathy but aslo practicalities ( just I am not a good nurse).
I do believe that life needs some purpose and meaning to make it a little easier. If you have some reason to arise every day and carry on then life is more fulfilling.
I would like to make the world a better place but am tired of getting involved in others crusades/missions to do so. Just let me do it in my own quiet little way instead of putting pressure on me to be the number one sidekick.
I am also tired of mankinds rules and restrictions. I of course understand why they are there but we are suffocating ourselves, creating a lack of freedom of individualism. Our structures that we have to operate under are all manmade after all, all are fallible, none are percect.

Temperament and Learning;
I do like somewhat sensitive feedback but only if 'real'.
I like to see positive feelings and thoughts on teachers or students faces.
I like logical explanations and interpretations of information and probably if you asked people who know me, they would say that that sometimes I shock them with how logical I can be.
I do analyse and use critical thinking by raising questions and potential problems. I love to gather relevant information with an open mind and come up with ideas that may be useful.

Temerament and Creativity;
I like people to know themselves well. In a way that is why I joined this forum- so that my daughters could hopefully work out what personality system they are using rather than just want to be 'like mum'.
I like people to care about others and provide healthy environments that encourage growth.
I do always question ideas and forecast potential problems or possibilities.
My plan of attack, route or path is always towards a better future.

So what are my talents?Maybe answering this would help?
I am good in small groups or one on one being able to quickly get involved in a significant conversation which can help others to reach the truth or answers within themselves.
I am good at generating ideas and possibilities and seeing consequences of thoughts and actions.
I gravitate towards sociology.
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  #36  
Old 06/11/2009, 02:19 AM
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1. I have strong reasons to type Sarah as ENFp and Suzanne as INFj.
I would love to hear you're reasoning why you think we are those types
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  #37  
Old 06/11/2009, 03:22 AM
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1. I have strong reasons to type Sarah as ENFp and Suzanne as INFj, and I doubt something can change that; so this is my opinion.
2. I think Hannah is a Logical Extrovert, while I don't think she's an / valuer (Decisive). So I keep in only ENTp and ESTj, from VI, discussion management and relationships she seems ESTj, but the lack of practicality and many ideas leans towards ENTp.
I stick with ESTj for Hannah.

Edit: a key difference between ENTp and ESTj is the fact that ENTp is very vocal about his/her preferences, while ESTj insist on their equidistance from people and ideologies. This is one more reason for Hannah to be rather ESTj than ENTp.
Mihai, not everyone in the world is a delta. Last time I checked, there were three other quadras as well.
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  #38  
Old 06/11/2009, 04:31 AM
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Hi Suz(zy),

Do you think that logic, the validity of logical principles and reasoning, are optional and can be chosen or disregarded "at will", or do you think that logic is "binding" for everyone of us?

Do you think that you are a natural early bird or a natural night owl if you have to choose one of those two options (I still don't know which you are based on the information provided so far)?

Do you hate/dislike the idea of viewing/seeing/analyzing/theorizing about people as "objects" (as in the natural sciences), or do you think that it's natural/okay to explain human behavior in a more "external", non-human perspective?

Do you like to argue and debate "for ever" because you are very stubborn when you are certain that you are right, or do you tend to give in in some situations to avoid too much intensity and potential heated conflict?
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  #39  
Old 06/11/2009, 06:21 AM
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Mihai, not everyone in the world is a delta. Last time I checked, there were three other quadras as well.
Of course not, my reasoning included all the types, as it is obvious in my posts.
My principles don't allow me to compromise correctness just because there are "ridiculously" too many Deltas on the list already, I'm sorry.
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I would love to hear you're reasoning why you think we are those types
I've expressed it already... At least in Suzanne's case, the things became gradually clear during our late discussions, partly because she was very open, concise and sincere.
In your case my reasoning was poorer, but that's what I can tell for the information provided by you so far.

There are so many things to tell about Quadras and their values you don't know and it would take too much to go through them (again, actually) now . For example valuing /=Decisive, /=Judicious, /=Merry and /=Serious, the meaning of Socionics "Introverted" and "Extroverted". Check these terms because else it is probably impossible to communicate. Take my mountain trip story which is very insightful, it you don't understanding the difference between Serious and Merry types you can't understand those facts, for example when I said "serious" it didn't mean that Ann was a serious person (), but it is Socionics-related, it means valuing and .
There's my article which was accepted on this website I explained some of these terms: http://www.socionics.com/articles/mmexpl.html.

Previously I stated that, because over-thinking, many ENFp's seem "introverted", but the other way around is also possible, when they press the red button for a war against th world. I deduced from your videos that this applies to you, but you're not Socoinics "I", imo.

Because we reduced the possibilities to INFp and ENFp, I could try to compare these two types for you to be able to tell for yourself:
- both are romantic and fantasizing; INFp is more lyric and metaphysical; ENFp is more epic and imagery-based
- INFp is pretty impressionable; ENFp is subjectively aware of what people "are made of"
- INFp tend to prefer to meet friends outside, usually thematic places; ENFp seem to prefer home. This difference is usually weak.
- INFp are stoic and silent about discomfort; ENFp are vocal about discomfort and usually demanding - in my experience they are demanding.
- INFp doesn't like Delta "common" style; ENFp doesn't like Beta "arrogant" style.
- both are original to some extent, but INFp avoid people who have nothing strange from them; ENFp avoid people who have nothing in common with them.
- INFp has a victim erotic attitude: they drop a potential partner when this one shows genuine interest and things are "too easy"; ENFp has an infantile e.a. and drops a partner who shows little concern of his/her problems and opinions. It's basically the opposite.
- INFp tries to be always different, the "black sheep" in clothing or mentality; ENFp tries to match the preferred ones, be it family, friends or subculture.
- INFp prefer the "team" social environment based on merit - the team may dismiss a newcomer considering his/her worth; ENFp prefer the "group" one, based on acceptance - a newcomer may dismiss the community because he/she doesn't accept its values.
- INFp (as Beta) deals with defeat or suffering by the ideas of sacrifice and heroism, in business someone has to win and the other to loose; ENFp (as Delta) deals with them by the ideas of compensation, in business it has to be a win-win situation, or else they think for long about vengeance or return. Probably that joke with the Scot and the Jew who owns him a penny in perpetual motion is based on this .
- in my experience, INFp has a bad memory of events, people and their roles, while ENFp the other way around.
- INFp is more spontaneous and tend to see owns actions as acting; ENFp is more (sometimes overly) analytical and tends to see own actions as moral duty.

...and more and more.

Last edited by mihai_m; 06/11/2009 at 06:29 AM.
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  #40  
Old 06/11/2009, 09:01 AM
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Hi Suz(zy),

Do you think that logic, the validity of logical principles and reasoning, are optional and can be chosen or disregarded "at will", or do you think that logic is "binding" for everyone of us?
Oh, what a question- Is logic binding?....Mmmm I guess at the end of the day I believe that everything is a mathmatical equation put into place by God himself. But every day, we as human beings attempt to sidestep, forget about or out-do logic. Many prefer to pretend that it does not exist than to take time to stop and consider it. I ask myself is God logical and find myself answering yes but not always. But then I am only me and cannot understand God fully- perhaps to God he is being fully logical and I just don't understand enough yet. I do believe in consistency and soundness of theories that if correct can somehow at sometime be proven.

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Do you think that you are a natural early bird or a natural night owl if you have to choose one of those two options (I still don't know which you are based on the information provided so far)?
I was raised to be an early bird by a very strict mother. These days it is not uncommon to find me still snoozing away until around 8:30am during the week and 10:00am-10:30am on the weekends. I start to get ready for bed around 9:15pm-9:45pm weekdays and 9:30pm-11:00pm weekends. But I do usually have a small last minute burst of energy and want to check something on the computer, unload the dishwasher, fold some washing etc. And perhaps it should be noted that when I do get to bed maybe half an hour later that I then spend another half an hour or so catching up with my husband. Overall I am a low energy person who suffers from tiredness. Natural early bird or night owl, I am not sure!

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Do you hate/dislike the idea of viewing/seeing/analyzing/theorizing about people as "objects" (as in the natural sciences), or do you think that it's natural/okay to explain human behavior in a more "external", non-human perspective?
Yes and no. If you treat people as individuals and with respect I have no problem dealing with the idea of viewing/seeing/analyzing/theorizing about people as 'objects'. In fact I see it as necessary to further sociological research.

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Do you like to argue and debate "for ever" because you are very stubborn when you are certain that you are right, or do you tend to give in in some situations to avoid too much intensity and potential heated conflict?
I am a somewhat stubborn person but I do not like to argue and debate in an unfriendly manner. I do however enjoy bouncing/debating theories and ideas with people who have an open mind, similar interests and a sense of humour. If things look like they are heating up I would prefer to just agree to disagree and move on from there.
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