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  #1  
Old 11/07/2007, 11:38 AM
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Default INFP in Crisis! Calling NFs for help!

I'm a 20 year old male INFP in neurotic-mode. I was wondering if anyone has any thoughts on the situation I'm currently in, as I'm not getting any understanding from the S and J types I find myself surrounded with.

About a year ago, I had a relationship with an ENFJ girl who was WAY out of my league. I suppose I offered some NF understanding in a pretty low-key way that seemed to do something for her, but ultimately the J/P conflict proved to be too much and she ran away from feeling into an overwhelming abundance of activity.

Somewhat neurotic herself at the time, she believed my understanding to be "too accepting" in that it permitted her to be comfortable with that about herself which the external world. As she defines herself in it's context, it did not bode well for me. I would go so far as to argue that she is authentically an INFJ whose reliance on her judging function for escaping feeling has essentially thrown her into a false air of extroversion. She is fake all the time and depends on it.

She stopped showing up one day, and I took it HARD.

My roommate/best friend also left at the exact same time. After two years of college, I was left with merely acquaintances after those too. Mind you, I see myself as embodying Jung's archetype for introversion. I will acknowledge that my extreme introversion makes my ego very vulnerable.

I believe what happened next was that my brain associated the accompanying pain with what I had control over: myself. What ensued was wrenching neurotic guilt. Feelings of self-loathing naturally lead me to respond through ego exaltation (enter "identity seeking" in MBTI/Socionics), to seemingly justify everything I've ever done as to remove any shred of guilt. This inversely reinforced my irrational subconscious which just made the neurotic feelings and subsequent behavior even more hardcore.

The masochism of my self destruction was effective: My unconscious made things like dropping out of school, not showing up to work, alienating my family, and getting evicted from my apartment "feel" right. I submitted to every indiscretion as nothing external seemed like it could possibly matter in the context of my internal misery. Or as Jung would say "In spite of positively conclusive efforts to ensure the superiority of the ego, the object comes to exert an overwhelming influence, which is all the more invincible because it seizes on the individual unaware and forcibly obtrudes itself on his concsiousness."

I speak of this as thought, but all that presented itself in feeling at the time. Even though I now grasp this with my ego as a result of my attempts of finding myself again, I am still unable to feel about things like I should. Everything is dysphoria. The pain of my subjective reality was actualized into objective reasons to make the pain more real. It would seem I "gave myself something to cry about." I don't know if I still hurt for the loss anymore, as I am too blasted with "real" concerns that have now become epic. Perhaps that was the point.

I think I can handle the resulting problems. If anyone has any ideas about how I can remotely feel like it, I would appreciate it.

P.S. I know Effexor, Wellbutrin, Valproic Acid, Vistaril, Zoloft and Tramadol are not the answer. I've been diagnosed as Bipolar 2, but I woudl argue the symptoms to just be the dark and twisty side of the INFP.
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Old 11/07/2007, 01:13 PM
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What's your leadinf function? Introverted feeling or Introverted intuition?
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Old 11/07/2007, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by complicater-complexer View Post
What's your leadinf function? Introverted feeling or Introverted intuition?

If he's INFp it's unless he's abandoned it completely for
Unless you're asking a different question, i.e. you think he's INFj?
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Old 11/07/2007, 02:10 PM
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I mean INFP or INFp?
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Old 11/07/2007, 03:05 PM
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Ah ha, I see....that which we call a rose By any other name ....
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Old 11/07/2007, 06:29 PM
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Okay.

*deep breath*

You've dropped quite a load here, J.

I'll give you a little advice. But I don't want you to replace forums and independent reading for actual help. I bet you can bang this out with a professional in under 6 months. Independently you could still be sorting through all of this this time next year. The internet is full of idiots, J. You shouldn't trust us.

Your inability to 'snap out of it' is lack of maturity (which is good, because it means you might grow out of it) and possibly unbalanced p/j. You can also exercise Ti and Te with the following exercise:

Make a list of your previous behaviors (only yours) that you feel caused strife. Next to the behaviors write out a 'lesson learned'. Commit to never dealing with situations in that manner again. Following 'lesson learned' write action points of how the similar situations can be dealt with appropriately. Don't use this time to become sentimental. Study list, internalize it. Then burn it and never think about it again. All action points from now on are future orientated.

Now, understand: the above advice sucks. I have no idea how to deal with any part of your psyche after one post. You should get deeper into it with someone who can sit with you in person. Too much is left wanting on the internet.
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Old 11/07/2007, 09:15 PM
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Thank you for your responses. As far as the feeling/intuition issue goes, it depends: I feel very strongly like I come to completely different conclusions from the perspective of my Ego, although unconscious seems to make me feel completely different than I think I should. My behavior and my identity are in opposition. Make of that what you will.

I appreciate your insights Valerie. I agree that the problem is one of maturity although I would argue it is do to my extreme introversion rather than just age. According to Jung, such introversion lends itself to extreme emotional immaturity concerning the ego. I simply could not handle my first authentic hit to my sincere self. Nevertheless, it will still require growing out of.

I apologize that this appears as a free therapy request, but I post it in a forum of socionics because I very much have adopted the perspective as a means of better understanding the issue. I'll take it all happily, but perhaps any thoughts related to the finer points of socionics, specifically intertype relations (as it is new to me) would probably be a relevant contribution to the forum.
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Old 11/07/2007, 10:25 PM
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I don't understand how consistent behavior can be contrary to your identity. We are what we do and it reflects a part of our identity.

As you mature and learn your introversion should balance out. You must work at it. Perhaps taking your search for self to an internet forum isn't the best exercise for such an endeavor.

I do not want this to be a tool for you stay in the past, analyzing it. An examined life is a privilege to those who live.
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Old 11/07/2007, 11:11 PM
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Perhaps we are what we do, but the reflection of that mirroring contains incomplete information. For this reason, the INFP is one of the most misunderstood types because what we are acting on is not really the objective data (as viewable to everyone else) but the nature our subjective experience. Basically our heads are up our butts.

"We are what we do" is to to J for my taste, and I get the feeling you are S as well. There is "me" in all of my behavior but "I" am currently characterized by having feelings that suggest one thing (unconscious) and reason that suggests another (ego). Because of how F I am, and because it is just excruciating to make rationality a truly rational choice (because it is painful) my behavior differs from the values I believe I have. The reason reason is difficult is because my unconscious wants me to fail (a neurotic guilt thing). Even though I realize this is going on, my emotions remain in opposition.

Jung describes it like this: "If the ego has usurped the claims of the subject, this naturally produces an unconscious reinforcement of the influence of the object. In spite of positively convulsive efforts to ensure the superiority of the ego, the object comes to exert an overwhelming influence, which is all the more invincible because it seizes on the individual unaware and forcibly obtrudes itself on his consciousness"

Again, I'm not seeking therapy directly as much as I am looking to hear some thoughts on my situation in the context of socionics. I'm looking for some more perspectives on the ins and outs of type as no one I know really has any knowledge about this line of thinking.
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Old 11/07/2007, 11:20 PM
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Considering the inner conflict I'm describing, what would you think my dominant function is?

I don't feel like I've abandoned intuition for feeling completely. I have not let myself go completely into feeling, in fact I have exaggerated my Ego in an effort to rebel against the neurotic feelings "I" don't "agree" with.

To expand on Val's question, I've let my behavior submit to what is easiest on a lot of external world things- i.e. the litany of screw ups I list. I don't really identify with it, it was just about taking the easiest route externally while I focus on taking on the source of those feelings internally.

I know I'm not giving you enough information for therapy, I want to know if their is something going on in the context of socionics that anyone has insight to. I don't see a lot of literature about having an emotional environment not enforced by conscious thought.
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  #11  
Old 11/07/2007, 11:45 PM
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Ah, INTJ makes since too Val.

I think you can still understand if you really try and think about what the nature of your experience would be if you imagine having more of a tendancy for random bizarre feelings and a focus on the subjective nature of existence rather than what can be accomplished.

If that sounds critical, I am more than aware that I am the embodiment of irrationality. It's just that the techniques that seem clear to you probably don't carry as much weight as they should in the reality I've got going on.
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Old 11/07/2007, 11:53 PM
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But we're not in your reality. We're in here. That's my point.

Also, don't be a victim of your type. It's not a prison. You CAN step out of the box, exercise your other functions. In fact, you should. If you're not rational, work at it. Please.
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Old 12/07/2007, 03:13 AM
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Yeah, but I am in my reality. I could resort to lesser developed functions, in fact my other thread is about how they are depended on for defense.

I don't want to just pass as a human being, I want to be real.

If I don't get my reality straight, then I'm just going to be running away into action or sensation and treating the symptoms. I'm trying to be one coherent person, not just cope.
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Old 13/07/2007, 05:26 AM
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Default Brief post before bedtime.

We all want to be real, but sometimes we have to do things where we don't feel real because our real feelings are elsewhere, e.g. having to do college work when mourning the loss of a relationship. Or in my case having to clean a house while my real self is busy fantasising about someone.

Btw, for mood improvement try Inositol - one a day at first as it can make you sleepy to begin with. And if you're not prone to mania also take Agnus Castus.

You do pass as a human being - with flying colours probably!

Don't we ALL just cope?

Ruby in the Dust
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Old 14/07/2007, 12:07 AM
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For mood improvement try masturbation
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Old 14/07/2007, 08:26 AM
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Every twenty or thirty minutes...
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Joseph

strongly expressed Introvert
strongly expressed iNtuition
strongly expressed Feeling
moderately expressed Perceiving
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Old 14/07/2007, 04:55 PM
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Boys are gross
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Old 15/07/2007, 12:06 AM
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Eh? Do you not agree?
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Old 15/07/2007, 01:23 AM
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I think the grossness was aimed at my habitual self pleasure...
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  #20  
Old 16/07/2007, 06:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdickens86 View Post
I would go so far as to argue that she is authentically an INFJ whose reliance on her judging function for escaping feeling has essentially thrown her into a false air of extroversion. She is fake all the time and depends on it.
Can you elaborate?
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