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  #1  
Old 11/07/2010, 03:16 AM
Cyclops Cyclops is offline
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They can really get on my nerves when I watch them interact with other people.

What about you guys?
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  #2  
Old 11/07/2010, 02:40 PM
sjy sjy is offline
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they get on your nerves how?

Like they're annoying, awkward? or like you wish they were talking to you instead?

SLIs get on my nerves too sometimes--they can say things to other people that come across as shockingly rude to me. And of course i feel excluded, so there's a bit of both in there for me.

On the other hand, other times, I find them funny and kind in a gruff way, and sometimes i enjoy being an audience.
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Old 11/07/2010, 02:58 PM
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Numerous things! They can spread themselves too thin, do things that aren't good for them to try and fit in with people. Seem to make ridiculous decisions.

I think I read somewhere that duals can be annoying observing them with others, seems to me it can be true, maybe why they get on better when they form a 'closed loop'.

I'm not saying I dislike them, as that's not the case.

In regards to what you mention about feeling left out, don't you feel that if some of them just listened to you more they could reap good benefit? I guess that changes over time as they realise the value to each other - but who's to say that will happen?
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Old 11/07/2010, 07:01 PM
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They're too emotionally intense and bossy at times.
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Old 11/07/2010, 09:44 PM
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I wonder if the issue in such a circumstance is that when your dual is interacting with other people, you see their flaws where you can help them, but you can't help right at the moment since there are other people around. Idk, that's just a guess. I don't really know any SLIs well enough to say whether they annoy me when interacting with other people or not.
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Old 11/07/2010, 10:00 PM
Cyclops Cyclops is offline
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Originally Posted by bigwhitesquare View Post
They're too emotionally intense and bossy at times.
ime ESFjs aren't like this around others, like a large group or someone they don't know too well, but they can be more like you mention when they 'relax' around you more.

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Originally Posted by Kittykat View Post
I wonder if the issue in such a circumstance is that when your dual is interacting with other people, you see their flaws where you can help them, but you can't help right at the moment since there are other people around. Idk, that's just a guess. I don't really know any SLIs well enough to say whether they annoy me when interacting with other people or not.
I think so. I think it can also be bothersome when you see a dual trying to use your own strong functions.

I think, well at least for me, relationships need one on one interaction to develop properly, I think that a lot of ENFps can move around lots of people quickly so don't afford themselves this luxury. Maybe sub-types have an affect too. Dunno maybe post more later
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Old 11/07/2010, 11:13 PM
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nahbee1235 nahbee1235 is offline
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Get on my nerves? No... However, sometimes when I'm doing my own thing and happen to be ignoring my dual (this dude), he'll say some stuff that makes me think "what a loser".... *sigh* but when I start to pay attention and interact with him and the other ppl around us, he'll kind of follow my cues and not be so socially awkward...

however when it's just the two of us hanging out, it's different.. He spends the night at my place sometimes, and we'll lay on my couch and just talk about random things and it feels so natural. He actually talks alot more when it's only us, but not so much that it's annoying..


ESFp, and that's my story.



Oh, one more thing:
Quote:
I wonder if the issue in such a circumstance is that when your dual is interacting with other people, you see their flaws where you can help them, but you can't help right at the moment since there are other people around.
That may just be it, Kittykat.
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Old 12/07/2010, 05:18 AM
sjy sjy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
Numerous things! They can spread themselves too thin, do things that aren't good for them to try and fit in with people. Seem to make ridiculous decisions.

I think I read somewhere that duals can be annoying observing them with others, seems to me it can be true, maybe why they get on better when they form a 'closed loop'.

I'm not saying I dislike them, as that's not the case.

In regards to what you mention about feeling left out, don't you feel that if some of them just listened to you more they could reap good benefit? I guess that changes over time as they realise the value to each other - but who's to say that will happen?
Well first of all, to put what i'm saying in context, i really only know one SLI in person, whom i recognize as such.

The feeling left out thing--well, I felt that way numerous times when we first worked together, because there was a female who was also working with us who would chat him up constantly (meanwhile i was trying to get work done, but still eavesdropping). But still sometimes it felt like they sort of would exclude me from the conversation even when i wasn't busy.

But on the other hand, she and I would chat too, and he wouldn't be part of the conversation either. And there was this other time when i chatted up a bunch of friends and he must have felt left out because he walked off and found his buddies.

Thinking about this, i think it may have to do with the phenomenon that Aushra mentioned about duals, that they are so normal that they blend into the background, and suddenly you see them and realize they're present.

Also, they just feel so close that you dont necessarily feel the need to engage them in conversation. Sort of like both duals are fielding action from the world from the same vantage point.

And i also agree with what you said about that changing as they realize the value of each other. But the proximity is immediate.

It was never about me feeling like the SLI didn't listen to me, though. On the contrary, I was always taken aback by how carefully he listened and how much he wanted to hear what i thought, because I am not used to that.
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Old 12/07/2010, 05:59 AM
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It was never about me feeling like the SLI didn't listen to me, though. On the contrary, I was always taken aback by how carefully he listened and how much he wanted to hear what i thought, because I am not used to that.
Oddly enough, that's exactly how I feel about the ILI I'm hanging out with. When he first started working at the restaurant I (no longer) work at, at closing time I would be playfully teasing my coworkers and he would randomly comment on what I was saying...not to me though, kind of into the air...hee hee..

Anyway, time went by, stuff happened, and I no longer work there, BUT we managed to see each other at parties and as we spent more time together, I definitely got the "hmmm he listens to almost everything I say, how creepy, yet endearing" vibe.
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Old 12/07/2010, 06:59 AM
Cyclops Cyclops is offline
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Yeah, I'm not meaning the ones we've already formed a relationship with, presumably there's already chemistry there over and above duality to enable the two to get on.

Even when the two do already get on it can still be the case - just look at their Facebook for instance and you might see how different they are to you! Never mind ones you've typed but have minimal one to one interaction with.
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Old 12/07/2010, 07:33 PM
sjy sjy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
Yeah, I'm not meaning the ones we've already formed a relationship with, presumably there's already chemistry there over and above duality to enable the two to get on.

Even when the two do already get on it can still be the case - just look at their Facebook for instance and you might see how different they are to you! Never mind ones you've typed but have minimal one to one interaction with.
You mean different to me than to his friends? Oh yes. Very very different. But I am different from the vast majority of his friends. My friends and I are very different from his.

I wouldn't say that I had a relationship with him though. It felt almost like one, and i feel emotions as if it had been one (e.g. heartbreak, jealousy, disappointment, care, attachment) but when you take away the psychological proximity, we really were just acquaintances/coworkers. We weren't even really friends who hung out together. Which is what makes the feelings so confusing.
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Old 13/07/2010, 07:53 PM
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felafel felafel is offline
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I don't think i have read any literature on this. Just from thinking back on real life experiences in the past though i'd have to say yes, they can bother you, at least to some extend. Like Kitty said, you can see their weaknesses.

I remember a dual colleague of mine once snapped at me for sth or other i was doing or saying, can't remember exactly. I think i snapped back because of the way he said it and the fact that it wasn't just him and I talking, someone else was also part of the conversation.

2cents, fwiw lol
cheers
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Old 13/07/2010, 08:00 PM
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Also - in regards to the break in period with a dual, I remember going on a date with one and it was a disaster, lol.
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Old 13/07/2010, 09:15 PM
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^ I can't remember any first dates, actually, wonder if it's because i haven't been on a first date for almost 5 years now, lol. I'm not sure there were any "first dates", so to speak, with duals. It was, dunno, different, somtimes it involved other people hanging out - more of a group hangout actually.

I do remember a disaster though, but i got over it by drinking it up, lol. Not a good idea in hindsight, not recommended, and i wonder if the other party wasn't trying to get me drunk, lol.
cheers
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Old 13/07/2010, 09:16 PM
sjy sjy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felafel View Post
I don't think i have read any literature on this. Just from thinking back on real life experiences in the past though i'd have to say yes, they can bother you, at least to some extend. Like Kitty said, you can see their weaknesses.

I remember a dual colleague of mine once snapped at me for sth or other i was doing or saying, can't remember exactly. I think i snapped back because of the way he said it and the fact that it wasn't just him and I talking, someone else was also part of the conversation.

2cents, fwiw lol
cheers

lol oh yeah something like that happened early on between me and my dual, actually! I actually didn't snap back but i was mortified because i felt like he was suggesting i was an insensitive person. Instead i apologized, but then gave him sort of a subtle cold shoulder for a few hours (which he did notice, btw). But deep down i felt that he was right and his reaction let me know what a good person he is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
Also - in regards to the break in period with a dual, I remember going on a date with one and it was a disaster, lol.

what happened?

Last edited by sjy; 13/07/2010 at 09:16 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 13/07/2010, 09:22 PM
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felafel felafel is offline
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^@sjy: i snapped back because the situation was a bit different. It was a social context outside of work (very loosely work-related, in that all 3 of us having a conversation were work colleagues) and other things were going on. Come to think of it, i still think he was wrong about spanning at me, it was about sth very trivial and i can't remember what. I think it was because of other frustrations going on that he snapped, not because of that particular thing i was saying/doing.
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Old 13/07/2010, 09:31 PM
Cyclops Cyclops is offline
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Originally Posted by felafel View Post
^ I can't remember any first dates, actually, wonder if it's because i haven't been on a first date for almost 5 years now, lol. I'm not sure there were any "first dates", so to speak, with duals. It was, dunno, different, somtimes it involved other people hanging out - more of a group hangout actually.

I do remember a disaster though, but i got over it by drinking it up, lol. Not a good idea in hindsight, not recommended, and i wonder if the other party wasn't trying to get me drunk, lol.
cheers
lol, yeah, I remember thinking the toilet window was too small to climb through, lol. It wasn't working out so I explained to her why and ended the date. Wasn't a complete loss as then met my friend and got drunk. Gee, if i'd spent my life teetotal, I wonder if i'd have enough money to single handedly solve the UK debt problem.

Quote:
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lol oh yeah something like that happened early on between me and my dual, actually! I actually didn't snap back but i was mortified because i felt like he was suggesting i was an insensitive person. Instead i apologized, but then gave him sort of a subtle cold shoulder for a few hours (which he did notice, btw). But deep down i felt that he was right and his reaction let me know what a good person he is.




what happened?
Oh the date? Basically I didn't know her i'd met her on a night out n we arranged to go on a date. Well, we went for some drinks and she kept going on about things i'd did and what I should do or should have done. Like i'd tell her a story about something i'd done in my life and she'd start giving me advice on what should have done and what to do now and stuff instead of just two people talking. In retrospect her advice and stuff was actually quite potential and personal development growth like Ne and ENFp can be. Might even have been some good stuff but it being repeatedly it sort of got on my nerves, maybe some point down the line but too pushy for first date. So I just explained the issue and offered to wait with her for her cab and that was it.
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Old 13/07/2010, 11:41 PM
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felafel felafel is offline
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^@Cy: With re. to your date, i'm afraid that happens if there's nothing else to talk about, ie. no shared interests or much common ground at all, or any mutual points of reference. Yes, i think you're right in that duals are very very different, at least outwardly or at first.

Just thinking about duals being different a little more. I think one would need an anchor, of sorts, be it social or of another nature, in order to keep common ground, otherwise things can easily disintegrate, imo & ime.

Strangely enough, this wouldn't happen with other relations (all other things being equal). I suppose it's not too strange if one thinks about the nature of duality, how duals belong to different clubs and don't share any strong functions and are yet propelled to "correct" the other.
cheers

Another issue not directly linked to the OP: i wonder if relations of duality centering around Fe (aka Fe-valuing) might have a higher success rate than those centering around Fi.

*This is pure speculation*, but it seems to me an extroverted function that guides, for lack of a better term, the relation might have a higher chance of "succeeding". It seems to me, that at least atm, i've noticed a general tendency towards an E form of communication. Be that using Te or Fe or some other E function. Fi might seem too illusive, it's not easy to assess anyway.

In my observations, I can only say for certain that i know one real life ENFp-ISTp couple. ENFp male and ISTp female and they met when they were 16 or sth around then! lol.

anyway, speculation, rambling, boring etc lol

Last edited by felafel; 13/07/2010 at 11:42 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 14/07/2010, 03:28 AM
sjy sjy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felafel View Post
^@sjy: i snapped back because the situation was a bit different. It was a social context outside of work (very loosely work-related, in that all 3 of us having a conversation were work colleagues) and other things were going on. Come to think of it, i still think he was wrong about spanning at me, it was about sth very trivial and i can't remember what. I think it was because of other frustrations going on that he snapped, not because of that particular thing i was saying/doing.
I think in our case it was also other frustrations thrown into the mix that prompted that sort of response, because it also was sort of trivial in the end.
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Old 14/07/2010, 05:01 AM
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felafel felafel is offline
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@sjy: Yes, i remember you've mentioned.

It's a bit funny, in a way, that same pattern repeats itself, you only need to replace the actors, lol. I'm betting someone is snapping right now, lol.

To continue on same lighthearted mode, I was just thinking about a "typical" conversation between my ISTp uncle & I, when alone (big generational & cultural differences between us, btw):

Step 1 - *exchange appropriate greetings*
Step 2 - *look @ each other, each looking like they're about to or want to say sth. but neither does*
Step 3 - *consider Step 2 again and decide it's for the common good to just give up*
Step 4 - ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ, *insert random word*, ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Step 5: repeat step 4
Strangely, it feels comfortable, lol

It goes somewhat differently with my INTj uncle:

Uncle talking: Family, Family, etc etc
Me: Yes, hm, zz, yes
Uncle: Law, Law, etc etc
Me: Yes, zzzzzzz, yes
Uncle: Soccer, Soccer, etc etc
Me: ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ (*considers how to get away tactfully*)
lol
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