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  #1  
Old 10/11/2008, 06:28 PM
king king is offline
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Default Help me with my typing skills.

I need to start verifying my typing of people. I was wondering if I posted some pictures of people I know (who's types I've got a reasonable idea of) maybe someone could have a go at VI'ing them. Then maybe if I put some other things about them on here, maybe I could get a response to that as well?

Anyway, I know the information is a little thin, but I'm interested in peoples methods, er..the process, from when you first meet someone onwards basically. cheers for any help you may be able to give.

http://somefriendsfortyping.blogspot.com/
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  #2  
Old 10/11/2008, 09:03 PM
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Go for it! That should be interesting as well as educational.

Oh, there's already a link.

Last edited by Sirena; 10/11/2008 at 09:03 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 10/11/2008, 10:20 PM
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I need to start verifying my typing of people. I was wondering if I posted some pictures of people I know (who's types I've got a reasonable idea of) maybe someone could have a go at VI'ing them.
If you are serious about V.I. you should not post pictures like those you have in that link. Instead you should have photos that are more like those in SG's Train Your V.I Skills section. All the photos should be taken from roughly the same perspective, preferably up front and perhaps also from the side as a complement. They should be similar to passport photos. We should be able to analyze the facial structures of the persons. And they should not be smiling too much. They should be more or less neutral in facial expressions. And they should not be taken from a far distance.
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Old 10/11/2008, 10:31 PM
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Hmm I should get some VI appropriate pics taken
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Old 10/11/2008, 10:37 PM
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Hmm I should get some VI appropriate pics taken
It's nice to see your finally noting the usefulness of VI
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Old 10/11/2008, 10:57 PM
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If you are serious about V.I. you should not post pictures like those you have in that link. Instead you should have photos that are more like those in SG's Train Your V.I Skills section. All the photos should be taken from roughly the same perspective, preferably up front and perhaps also from the side as a complement. They should be similar to passport photos. We should be able to analyze the facial structures of the persons. And they should not be smiling too much. They should be more or less neutral in facial expressions. And they should not be taken from a far distance.
Thanks for the info. I will try to find some better photo's of people. If I posted a video of someone what sort of information would you look for in that? would it be best to have a neutral expression again?
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Old 10/11/2008, 11:02 PM
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Thanks for the info. I will try to find some better photo's of people. If I posted a video of someone what sort of information would you look for in that? would it be best to have a neutral expression again?
If any of your friends have wax works at Madam Tousads then I think Prom would like you to take some photos of those
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Old 10/11/2008, 11:19 PM
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If any of your friends have wax works at Madam Tousads then I think Prom would like you to take some photos of those
I wasn't going to say...
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Old 11/11/2008, 03:17 AM
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Thanks for the info. I will try to find some better photo's of people. If I posted a video of someone what sort of information would you look for in that? would it be best to have a neutral expression again?
A video is different from a photo and is often even more useful as a source of information about a person's type. The person should of course not try to have a neutral expression in a video unless that is their natural way of behaving. They should not be acting like someone else. They should be themselves as much as possible.
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Old 11/11/2008, 10:32 PM
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A video is different from a photo and is often even more useful as a source of information about a person's type. The person should of course not try to have a neutral expression in a video unless that is their natural way of behaving. They should not be acting like someone else. They should be themselves as much as possible.
I don't know if this video will be any good as the quality isn't great and stuff, but it's probably the best I've got just at the moment. So if anyone would like to take a stab, I'd be very interested.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nz-R4h_5sKc
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Old 11/11/2008, 11:53 PM
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I don't know if this video will be any good as the quality isn't great and stuff, but it's probably the best I've got just at the moment. So if anyone would like to take a stab, I'd be very interested.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nz-R4h_5sKc
Oh...I'll just add a little bit of context. All three are friends from school.
The guy on the left will forgive me for posting this video...eventually, he's my best mate essentially, or one them anyway.
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Old 12/11/2008, 01:59 AM
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I don't know if this video will be any good as the quality isn't great and stuff, but it's probably the best I've got just at the moment. So if anyone would like to take a stab, I'd be very interested.
Too bad quality. Why three? Why are they not inside a house where we can hear them better? Why are you moving the camera so much? Why can't we see them up front? Why not let them talk about themselves one at a time? Think in V.I. terms. We must be able to study facial structures too, and that requires an object that is not moving all the time.
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Old 12/11/2008, 03:07 AM
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Too bad quality. Why three? Why are they not inside a house where we can hear them better? Why are you moving the camera so much? Why can't we see them up front? Why not let them talk about themselves one at a time? Think in V.I. terms. We must be able to study facial structures too, and that requires an object that is not moving all the time.
noted...hmm...I might have to one of myself...unless I can find a willing guinue pig.

What sort of things is it best to have people talk about?

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Too bad quality. Why three? Why are they not inside a house where we can hear them better? Why are you moving the camera so much? Why can't we see them up front? Why not let them talk about themselves one at a time? Think in V.I. terms. We must be able to study facial structures too, and that requires an object that is not moving all the time.
sorry more questions

Do you base video VI solely on face structure or do you pay much attention to body language etc.?

Do different people employ different methods of VI or is there one standard method?

I will make another video as I am very interested, however at the moment my curiosity is getting ahead of me.
Knowing my inexperience at typing people, I provisionally have the guy on the right down as ISTj, the guy in the middle as INTp and the guy on the left as ENFp. I realise the shortcomings of the material and that there may not be enough information to have any kind of guess, but I would welcome any observations on my judgements, however limited.

Last edited by king; 12/11/2008 at 03:07 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 12/11/2008, 04:17 AM
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VI standards are not universally agreed upon.
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Old 12/11/2008, 06:43 AM
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VI standards are not universally agreed upon.
That's for sure! I think the most formal type of VI is solely based on facial structure; maybe SG can elaborate on this. But that's never worked for me probably b/c I never really studied it too much; the only helpful aspects of pics/video that I use are the substance, context, environment, and any other behavioral indicators that can be deduced from the pic/vido. So I guess that is completely opposite from formal or conventional VI.
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  #16  
Old 12/11/2008, 11:44 AM
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What sort of things is it best to have people talk about?
Themselves. What they like and dislike. What they do and not do. What they value and why. What they are striving for. What they are passionate about. Let their essence shine through.

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Do you base video VI solely on face structure or do you pay much attention to body language etc.?
I pay attention to all those things. Some types can have rather typical facial gestures, and there seems to be some sort of pattern related to how different types use their hands while talking. This aspect has been pointed out by David Keirsey (and probably others too). And of course we can often spot whether the person is a T or an F type based on their facial expressions and/or body language.

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Do different people employ different methods of VI or is there one standard method?
Some people use bad methods, some people use better methods. Some people are good at V.I., some are worse. You have to practice yourself by comparing lots of real life people, whose type you are sure of by other means, with photos, videos, etc. of famous people and others.

In the future we will be able to put V.I. into a formula and let the computers do a much better job than we are doing today, but we are not quite there yet, even though we can already spot some aspects of personality with computer face scanning. There is always a clear correlation between personality and parts of the body, since most genes are responsible for more than one trait.

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I will make another video as I am very interested, however at the moment my curiosity is getting ahead of me.
Knowing my inexperience at typing people, I provisionally have the guy on the right down as ISTj, the guy in the middle as INTp and the guy on the left as ENFp. I realise the shortcomings of the material and that there may not be enough information to have any kind of guess, but I would welcome any observations on my judgements, however limited.
Well, at least we can say with almost certainty, based on facial expressions etc., that the two guys on the right seem to be introverted types and they guy on the left seems to be extraverted.

Last edited by Prometheus; 12/11/2008 at 11:44 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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  #17  
Old 12/11/2008, 09:08 PM
king king is offline
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Originally Posted by Kanerou View Post
VI standards are not universally agreed upon.
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Originally Posted by RSV3 View Post
That's for sure! I think the most formal type of VI is solely based on facial structure; maybe SG can elaborate on this. But that's never worked for me probably b/c I never really studied it too much; the only helpful aspects of pics/video that I use are the substance, context, environment, and any other behavioral indicators that can be deduced from the pic/vido. So I guess that is completely opposite from formal or conventional VI.
Thanks, I don't think I'd be very good at being too formal, with typing people. Probably learn as much as I can, then use my gut, sounds better to me.

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Themselves. What they like and dislike. What they do and not do. What they value and why. What they are striving for. What they are passionate about. Let their essence shine through.
Seems straightforward enough.

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Originally Posted by Prometheus View Post
I pay attention to all those things. Some types can have rather typical facial gestures, and there seems to be some sort of pattern related to how different types use their hands while talking. This aspect has been pointed out by David Keirsey (and probably others too). And of course we can often spot whether the person is a T or an F type based on their facial expressions and/or body language.
Hand gestures are very interesting in my opinion, sorry more questions again. Did Keirsey make any specific observations? If so where can I find information on this?

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Some people use bad methods, some people use better methods. Some people are good at V.I., some are worse. You have to practice yourself by comparing lots of real life people, whose type you are sure of by other means, with photos, videos, etc. of famous people and others.
practice? myself? hmmm...sounds like work...oh well no pain no gain

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Originally Posted by Prometheus View Post
In the future we will be able to put V.I. into a formula and let the computers do a much better job than we are doing today, but we are not quite there yet, even though we can already spot some aspects of personality with computer face scanning. There is always a clear correlation between personality and parts of the body, since most genes are responsible for more than one trait.
Oh brave new world that has such people in it.

I know about testosterone and finger length, are there other things?

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Well, at least we can say with almost certainty, based on facial expressions etc., that the two guys on the right seem to be introverted types and they guy on the left seems to be extraverted.
Cheers, at least it appears I can tell the difference between introverts and extroverts, unless I just got lucky.
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  #18  
Old 13/11/2008, 02:34 AM
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Hand gestures are very interesting in my opinion, sorry more questions again. Did Keirsey make any specific observations? If so where can I find information on this?
Yes, he did. Keirsey might have written about it elsewhere as well, but at least you can find some short comments about it in his book Please Understand Me II. I'm not sure he is totally right, but I have myself observed what seems to be a rather clear tendency in NT types (and not nearly as accentuated in non-NT types), that "perhaps the most telling gesture of all is the apposition of the thumb against the finger tips, as if the NT is bringing an idea or an argument to the finest possible point and is savoring the precision." (p. 168)

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practice? myself? hmmm...sounds like work...oh well no pain no gain
You can start with SG's "Train Your V.I. Skills" section on this site. Practice it until you you get all of those pictures right and can through the whole section without making any mistake. By then (or sooner) you will begin to see a general pattern emerge. The next step is to go out in the real world and look for similar general patterns in people's looks and compare them with the looks of real life people whose type you have identified by other typing methods than V.I. Everything must fit.

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I know about testosterone and finger length, are there other things?
Yes, for example the fact that people with Williams syndrome have a very characteristic look that can rather easily be detected by both humans and computers. Many of our personality traits are probably correlated with physical characteristics one way or the other.

If you practice V.I. you will realize that there are many such correlation patterns to observe. For example, why is there such a strong tendency among INTjs to be slim and ectomorphic? Why is there such a strong tendency among ESFps to have a totally different, almost opposite (from INTjs) body type? What genes are involved here? We don't know yet, but we know that the general pattern is there, because we can easily observe it.
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