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  #21  
Old 19/02/2006, 02:37 AM
MysticSonic MysticSonic is offline
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Default Re: Belief and Logic

I don't think so either.
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  #22  
Old 19/02/2006, 05:37 AM
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Default Re: Belief and Logic

Maybe a better title would be "faith and logic". Faith as in beliving something without or with little logical and sensory foundation. Introverted intuition types are best at this. I Dont buy the evryone is subjective argument. Based on behavior we can see all types acting objectively when they must, who is confused about what happens when you step in front of the train? But when there is allowable uncertainty subjectiveness enters at varying degrees for each person. An interesting question is which is closer to the truth? Many people make the mistake of equating objective "facts" with truth. If that were the case Sensory types would have an advantage in life overall, yet intuitives perform better in certain situations. It seems that when the underlying truth of any situation is closely aligned with the observable facts, being "objective is an advantage. And yet when the observable facts are incomplete they can be misleading, often the subjective enterpretation is then superior to the objective. Aristotle believed that the middle was always superior to extremes. We all see the world through a colored lens, as long as its not extrememly tinted it probably improves our vision.
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  #23  
Old 19/02/2006, 02:40 PM
time is being time is being is offline
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Default Re: Belief and Logic

Quote:
Originally posted by SG:
Because it is objective, it exists by itself and you will never be able to experience it unless you become it.
great point. too bad others try to argue about it without becoming it for themsleves.
http://www.religiousworlds.com/mystic/define.html
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  #24  
Old 24/02/2006, 03:50 PM
Ben Armstrong Ben Armstrong is offline
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Default Re: Belief and Logic

Quote:
Originally posted by SG:
It doesn't matter what objective reality really is.
Oh yes it does How on earth can you accomplish anything if what you do simply doesn't work in real world? For that you have to observe reality and look what possibilities it offers i guess
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  #25  
Old 24/02/2006, 09:12 PM
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Default Re: Belief and Logic

Quote:
Originally posted by Nyx:
So what we don't know won't hurt us?
I believe this phrase is usually used with reference to some emotional trauma.
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  #26  
Old 24/02/2006, 09:18 PM
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Default Re: Belief and Logic

Not always.
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  #27  
Old 24/02/2006, 09:46 PM
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Default Re: Belief and Logic

So if you don't know that train is coming and you are on the track it won't hurt you, right?
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  #28  
Old 24/02/2006, 10:20 PM
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Default Re: Belief and Logic

I'm asking you.
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  #29  
Old 24/02/2006, 11:46 PM
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Default Re: Belief and Logic

That WAS my answer.
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  #30  
Old 25/02/2006, 12:16 AM
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Default Re: Belief and Logic

........

I renounce my INTJness.
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  #31  
Old 25/02/2006, 08:44 AM
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Default Re: Belief and Logic

Your perception of reality is limited by your 5 senses so how do you know that what you observe IS the objective reality?
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  #32  
Old 25/02/2006, 08:52 AM
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Default Re: Belief and Logic

So what we don't know won't hurt us?
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  #33  
Old 25/02/2006, 03:26 PM
Ben Armstrong Ben Armstrong is offline
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Default Re: Belief and Logic

Quote:
Originally posted by SG:
Your perception of reality is limited by your 5 senses so how do you know that what you observe IS the objective reality?
Well it's our job to questionate wheather what we see is real. And it's not allways easy, when there are many scamy cheaters around willing to fool you. But you can alter your view after faults in life and be more sure as if what you see has any value.
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  #34  
Old 25/02/2006, 03:34 PM
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Default Re: Belief and Logic

This is not quite what I meant Ben, look deeper... Have you watched MATRIX? How would you know that our objective reality is not like that?
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  #35  
Old 25/02/2006, 03:54 PM
Ben Armstrong Ben Armstrong is offline
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Default Re: Belief and Logic

Quote:
Originally posted by SG:
This is not quite what I meant Ben, look deeper... Have you watched MATRIX? How would you know that our objective reality is not like that?
If Matrix is there you live, than THAT IS your reality- because you live there, and until you find out that it is NOT YOUR REALITY it will be your reality, because actualy you live there.
It will only become your matter to come out of your matrix, when you find out that what you live in, isn't worthy enough and has no real impact.
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  #36  
Old 25/02/2006, 04:02 PM
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Default Re: Belief and Logic

Wait a second! We are not (or I was not) talking about YOUR reality. It is all about OBJECTIVE reality. Do you mind to read the thread again, I don't feel like repeating it, cheers.
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  #37  
Old 28/02/2006, 05:38 PM
Hitta Hitta is offline
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Default Re: Belief and Logic

This is not one single thing in this "objective reality" that can be concluded as being an absolute fact. As a matter of fact, I do not believe there is really such a thing as objective reality. Everything thing in life, every touch taste or smell, is all our own interpretation of things. We are all psychologically isolated whether or not other people are consciously active our not. The consciousness of other people will always be unclear no matter what are the circumstances. Even if there were sometype of high tech machine that could read peoples thoughts and impulses, how would we know if they truely existed or not. How would we know if they were concrete or a delusional fantasy. I mean I honestly think it is impossible to prove our own existence. If that is impossible, how would we know whether or not an existence exists outside of ours.
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  #38  
Old 28/02/2006, 05:58 PM
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Default Re: Belief and Logic

One problem with your argument, Hitta, is that when you try to doubt your own existence, or the existence of an objective reality, you will inevitably fail. If you "think" that you can do that, you must be even more unsure of whether you know what you mean by the words you use to express that "doubt". You can't formulate your doubt (not even to yourself) in a way that makes any sense. Even if you don't know anything for certain (you have a point there) there are things like your own existence, or that you understand the meaning of the words you use to formulate your thoughts, that you CAN NOT doubt, even if you try as hard as you can to do it. Try ... and you will see that I'm right about that ...
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  #39  
Old 28/02/2006, 06:07 PM
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Default Re: Belief and Logic

I can very easily doubt my own existence.
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  #40  
Old 28/02/2006, 06:09 PM
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Default Re: Belief and Logic

How?
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