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  #1  
Old 11/06/2010, 09:51 AM
Cyclops Cyclops is offline
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Default ISFp and ISTp

OK, I suppose to get to this once and for all, what do you think the differences are between ISFp and ISTp?

I've always got on with Delta types, yet I get on with Alpha types too, so i'm not entirely sure about inter-type relations.

Well, i'm open to suggestions and input.

In regards to relating this to myself and my own type - I would say that for it to be resolved completely - I would probably need to post some photos which i'm not sure about. Suffice to say there's some photos where I think I look ISFp and some where I look rather ISTp - ie with the sort of long, 'rounded' ie no hard edges shape to face, so dunno re that. I think i've posted some photos before, maybe i'll post some more.

Hmm, re HA, I think I can relate to 'to love', but who can't? I'm not so sure about 'to understand' - although it's possible. Maybe that I seem to be reasonably clever helps me with 'understanding' in the superficial sense, or at least I think I do, notice that I 'seem' - the word used, i'm no egghead!

Either way, whether ISTp or ISFp, i'm not particularly bothered about the label per se, although clearly some final clarity would be useful, at least betrayed by my post! I guess what i'm getting at is, I don't think that being T or F makes any difference to intellectual capacitance for instance, and i'd like to think that regardless of the type, i'd still be the same person, and always hoping to improve.

FWIW - I think an extraverted type, should that be suggested, is pretty much outlandish for me. I fit Jungs definition and socionic definition of I quite well I think, i'm quite inner focused amidst my own thoughts and impressions, even when i'm not feeling shy or something, and although at times can interact with the world quite vigourously, I still think my overall 'internalness' wins through.

Edit: I should probably add, that these days I just tend to think of myself as IP-Si more often than not, as I think some of you might know, but apparently we have one preference over another?

Last edited by Cyclops; 11/06/2010 at 09:57 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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  #2  
Old 11/06/2010, 12:16 PM
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k0rps3y k0rps3y is offline
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Some prefer horoscopes to phrenology, or somatypes to palmistry.
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Old 11/06/2010, 01:50 PM
natemaldonado natemaldonado is offline
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Try the test out on socionics.us; it's short and sweet. I'd post a picture and let the "vi" gurus take a hack.
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Old 11/06/2010, 02:00 PM
Cyclops Cyclops is offline
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It's a tricky one. I'm pretty aware of all the tests. It's possible that on the forum, certain people I think will probably pidgeon hole me as ISTp, maybe I really am. I want to explore this if I can for one last time.

Re photos, SG has already seen photos of me, I don't think he was sure, maybe he has to see more, although I don't know if he has opinion on my type overall. Hmmmm.
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Old 11/06/2010, 02:22 PM
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nahbee1235 nahbee1235 is offline
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Come on Cyclops, you know you want to post some pictures!! Please put some up so the mystery surrounding what you look like can be unveiled...
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Old 11/06/2010, 03:20 PM
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He might be self conscious about missing an eye.
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Old 11/06/2010, 03:45 PM
sjy sjy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nahbee1235 View Post
Come on Cyclops, you know you want to post some pictures!! Please put some up so the mystery surrounding what you look like can be unveiled...
I second this!! How come Sergei gets to see you and your own dual (or semi-dual) doesnt!

Re: differentiation between SLI and SEI, I think the most key question to ask is are you Fi-valuing or Fe-valuing. Also are you Fe-POLR? (i.e. do you tend not to show the emotions you are feeling on your face?) SEI would be showing a lot of their emotions on their face.

I get the impression from our conversations and what we've talked about that you are Fi-valuing. But you be your own judge.
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Old 11/06/2010, 05:43 PM
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k0rps3y k0rps3y is offline
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Site admins should add a poll to ask if VI is credible. Gestures and expressions can certainly provide clues to one's inner states but a mostly-physiological approach to determining personality is akin to long-discredited somatyping.
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Old 11/06/2010, 10:27 PM
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felafel felafel is offline
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Hey Cy,

The question seems to center around whether you're Fe-creative or Te-creative, as you are IP-Si, as you say. Except, it also becomes a question of whether you're Fe-PoLR (ISTp) or Te-PoLR (ISFp).

No egghead, you say? True that, except if you're ISFp you'd (probably) have to constantly be putting forth significant effort to downplay a certain natural tendency for this (from wiki): "(Te-PoLR) is manifested as a skepticism and dislike for basing your beliefs, arguments, and actions on external sources of information"; and this: "Another manifestation is a dislike for dealing with issues involving efficiency, productivity, and factual accuracy of statements made...etc"

I don't have a Si-radar online, but I believe I can notice use of Te or Fe. From my own observation, you present your P.O.V. methodically, taking care to refer outside sources when necessary, engaging others in an emotionally non-intrusive fashion with what seems to be an interest in furthering discussion rather than simply pointing out what you think.

-------------------
Part I - where I'm quoting things you've posted here and there, hope it's not too intrisuve, only meant to illustrate your communication style.

From Korpsy/autism thread:
"... fwiw I could see INFp because from at least my perspective you seem to use a lot of complex jargon and ways of saying things, imho this is more of an INFp thing than an INTp thing.(...).. in short and rather simply I suppose: it seems to work out that the T in INTp makes them more concise (even if they're wrong) maybe concise isn't always the right word, however the F in INFp makes them more 'poetic'/dramatic, and coupled with their weak T they can talk for a long time with such ways of phrasing but not really have that much of a point in comparison to the prose..etc.."

^ Here you start with an observation, go on to offer an explanation about T's effect in INTp expressions and F's&T's in INFp, then offer an opinion you've formed on these 2 types, and conclude by leaving it open to discussion. Seems to me a very dialectical and efficient way of engaging in a discussion, very much a Te trait imo.

Here below you're hinting at a certain inefficiency in Korpsy's communication style ("inefficiency" is just a word, may be better ways of phrasing it, Korpsy can decide for himself, sorry Korpsy). I'd say pointing out sth like that is an observation based on Te and also explained via same function:

"I'm curious if you find it difficult to explain complex thoughts in simple terms, as it *seems* that's what you're getting at.
In other words, I think you do (at least from what I can see), and it ties in with what I mentioned earlier on in last post....etc"


And this: (from "Bloody Bastards" thread):
"I think Marx was against the slave trade (maybe he wasn't), based on something by Hegel? - but Hegel was afaik. Interesting that before both were born, that black people couldn't be a slave in Scotland or England, a case of Joseph Knight was brought to court which Kames presided over - he was an African slave brought to Scotland by his master, and subsequently granted his freedom and that he should be paid for the work he did for his 'master', which was in 1769...etc"

^You start with some kind of hypothesis, point out a historical case making sure to drop a couple of names as a reference, go on to make another qualified conjecture, then move on to tying it in with a more encompassing idea about morality, while properly referring an outside source and their observations (you can go back to read whole post). Not Te-PoLR.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Part II - with some (not so) random other thoughts

If you're Fe -creative, here's how you'd come across ( from Wiki):
"Generally SEI tries to avoid tension by any means necessary..finds himself to be inferior in the case of an argument, will therefore often agree with the collocutor."

I haven't noticed you back down from a discussion for fear of inferiority (none that i could tell, anyway) nor for the sake of preserving a superficial, so to speak, stability of emotional atmosphere, which is not to say you only care about the argument and not the people in it, far from that. What I mean is, the river seems to flow unperturbed, keeping the course, no unexpected whirlpools or waterfalls, no visible intention to infuse the discussion with a particular emotional atmosphere you'd prefer over another. I would say you make solid use of Te over Fe.

A bit of an anecdote to illustrate, my ISFp mother seems to not care about the discussion or point being made if people may disagree (which isn't even conflict!) or take a very long time to come to some conclusion - that seems to really agitate and bother her. Well, maybe she has other issues or sth, i don't know for sure, but she isn't interested in swaping arguments. More often than not she'll throw in a few platitudes to kinda make everyone shut up coz her own inner stability is sacred and she doesn't want to deal with Te-oriented concerns.

Another family example: My uncle from mom's side is ISTp, mom (still!) ISFp. My uncle's wife passed away recently and i think he's, understandably, in some kinda funk right now. Add to that the fact that all his children live far away and he lives alone, makes him sad, of course. @ some point he mentioned he sees a very bleak future, and will probably end up dying alone (-> he never does this btw, was an exception). My mom's immediate reaction upon hearing that was to offer some other platitude about life and family love and how he was being unnecessarily too depressed over it. I gather she did it not so much to offer consolation (well, sure, that too, of course!), but i suspect it was more that as her inner state of happines felt threatened by darker thoughts, she felt the instant need to silence the other's sentiments. Never noticed you do that. I remember a thread on 16types about crazedrat beeing ill and you offered no platitudes, rather an observation on how you'd feel were the dude to pass (sorry to bring this up, i don't mean to drag that member's username all over the boards, just an example) - I mean, you let the emotional atmosphere get to you, didn't fight it or try to introduce sth uplifting for the sake of preserving your own innner stability or influencing that outside. Who knows if i'm reading it incorrectly though.

---------------------------------
Part IV - dichotomies, or just hired goons ():

Here's you from ESTp vs ISTp thread:
"If you have ever seen Top Gun, there's a quote from it, "You never ever EVER leave your wing man" employed sometimes in a group of my friends...but it basically means loyalty comes first, as that's important to us, we wouldn't abandon our friends easily..."

^ you're Aristocratic (ISFp isn't)( wiki): "Tend to attribute common qualities to members of their circles of contacts, and define such circles by those same qualities." - there's more on that dichotomy, but this is what i could see in your words.

Also, you appear constructivist (ISFp would be emotivist): Constructivist"Tend to minimize the emotional elements of interaction, preferring to focus on the 'business' elements....I prefer when people offer concrete solutions instead of comfort or sympathy....etc"

Positivist: Explains what things are (irrationals) (-> you can see "what things are" throughout your posts. ISFp would be negativist (ie. what things are not)

Asker: ISTp would be asker, whereas ISFp would be declaring)
"tendency to dialogue...starts talking at times expecting someone to get interested....has a tendency to interrupt and feels comfortable pausing half way on the speech.....etc "


As for inter-relations...Well, my parents are alpha, i've had some very strong gamma influences in my life, & my sister is beta. Not to mention friends and others, but i believe (my opinion, anyway) that all these interactions throughout childhood and later in life do leave a certain mark, don't you think? I can see some of those influences in myself. And maybe getting along with other quadras is just a trait of a well-rounded person, no?

I'd say ISTp for you, Cy. Guess there's the possibility of confirmation bias on my part, but even if, I hope some bits and pieces on here are useful to you. Since i've written enough for 5+ months, i might as well take a break!
Cheers
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  #10  
Old 11/06/2010, 10:40 PM
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nahbee1235 nahbee1235 is offline
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Quote:
Gestures and expressions can certainly provide clues to one's inner states but a mostly-physiological approach to determining personality is akin to long-discredited somatyping.


It is... and that could lead to socionics-style profiling.. hee hee...

I tend to type people by how they write. I've noticed that the same types have very similar writing styles. For instance, ISFp's write "lol, you're funny" or "that's funny" quite often....sometimes that's the only response you'll get from them.

Also people of the same type, when interacting with themselves on this site, come to realize that they enjoy similar things, have pretty much the same world view, etc.

Based on all of that, I don't think Cyclops is ISFp, fwiw.


Last edited by nahbee1235; 11/06/2010 at 10:41 PM. Reason: because I can
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  #11  
Old 13/06/2010, 03:30 PM
Cyclops Cyclops is offline
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Yeah I'm more motivated with using facts to decide present and work with and less so with Ti ideologies. Good to be able to get on with others, I'm pleased with that maturation of character. Thank you she lived with a felafel.
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Old 14/06/2010, 05:37 PM
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goldgoldgold goldgoldgold is offline
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I reckon do a video talking about something you like! That way the emotion would be positive too

And if you dont wanna expose yourself so much you could wear some sunglasses?
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  #13  
Old 16/06/2010, 02:35 PM
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nahbee1235 nahbee1235 is offline
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yeah, Cyclops, use some stunna shades to remain incognito...
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