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  #41  
Old 04/02/2006, 07:24 AM
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Default Re: What is Time?

Quote:
Originally posted by time is being:
intuition is understanding. what i am saying here is directness. one can use the intuition to know what is.
Understanding is understanding and intuition is intuition. Because INTjs have both and both are strong it is easy for an INTj to confuse which one is doing what.
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  #42  
Old 04/02/2006, 07:29 AM
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Default Re: What is Time?

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Originally posted by time is being:
Quote:
There is always a reason and the is always an explanaition that ties it all together. Intuition is not some magical power we have. It is fully qualified function of the psyche which can also be explained.
i have made no reference to magic. this is a valid point i am making. it is a function. it allows one to see what is. i have explained what it is, and what it is not in my previous posts.

posting a chart does not end the issue. give us something more of why you think the chart is valid. and it doesnt help with the question "what is time"? [/QB]
Then I'm not understanding the point obviously. Is intuition infallible?
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  #43  
Old 04/02/2006, 07:31 AM
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Default Re: What is Time?

Guys, this debate is pointless; most of you do not even appear to seem to know the functions well enough to even be effectually debating this. That's not helping anyone.
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  #44  
Old 04/02/2006, 07:32 AM
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Default Re: What is Time?

I'm trying to understand what's being argued.
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  #45  
Old 04/02/2006, 07:32 AM
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Default Re: What is Time?

QUOTE]Understanding is understanding and intuition is intuition. Because INTjs have both and both are strong it is easy for an INTj to confuse which one is doing what. [/QB][/quote]

i maintain that understanding is only possible through intuition, again such understanding is more lucid and valid than a "sense" understanding. i unfortunatel;y have to sign off, but will check the thread later. good night.
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  #46  
Old 04/02/2006, 07:34 AM
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Default Re: What is Time?

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Originally posted by Nyx:
Then I'm not understanding the point obviously. Is intuition infallible?
Good point, how did I miss it?
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  #47  
Old 04/02/2006, 07:35 AM
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Default Re: What is Time?

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Originally posted by Nyx:
I'm trying to understand what's being argued.
It is gibberish ... most of the posters here are just spewing out crap like they know what they are talking about, when they do not. Seriously, you guys should just stop wasting your time arguing in this thread.
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  #48  
Old 04/02/2006, 07:38 AM
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Default Re: What is Time?

Quote:
Originally posted by time is being:
i maintain that understanding is only possible through intuition, again such understanding is more lucid and valid than a "sense" understanding. i unfortunatel;y have to sign off, but will check the thread later. good night.
I will argue that Sensing is also understanding, and understanding is only possible through sensing as if we are unable to see, touch, hear, smell and taste things then how would we know what is?
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  #49  
Old 04/02/2006, 07:38 AM
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Default Re: What is Time?

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i maintain that understanding is only possible through intuition, again such understanding is more lucid and valid than a "sense" understanding. i unfortunatel;y have to sign off, but will check the thread later. good night. [/QB]
*sigh* I want to see your viewpoint, I really do, but I can't.

Ah well, maybe later.
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  #50  
Old 04/02/2006, 07:41 AM
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Default Re: What is Time?

Quote:
Originally posted by rmcnew:
Guys, this debate is pointless; most of you do not even appear to seem to know the functions well enough to even be effectually debating this. That's not helping anyone.
And you "know" the functions so well, don't you? With your chart and all. I don't think that that was "effectual" in proving any point. There are things called "operational definitions" and when you argue a point you have to develop something called a "construct" which has a "label" on it. You can't do that with most of this stuff, which makes it almost entirely subjective. All I see people doing here is labeling things with their own personal definitions and trying to act like they know it all. I don't see any structured arguments which are grounded in a reality. If it can't be tested, it isn't real. It's just some fairy tale you made up in your mind.
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  #51  
Old 04/02/2006, 07:50 AM
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Default Re: What is Time?

Oh boy..
I don't think we need to get so heated over a debate. We're going to start loosing the original point of the thread. I'm not in a position to pass judgement on anyone here, since I'm probably spewing as much "crap" as anyone else. However, sometimes the best way to learn is by argument: trial and error. So I see no reason to stop, as long as we're sticking to subject matter and not going off on diatribes.
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  #52  
Old 04/02/2006, 07:53 AM
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Default Re: What is Time?

Quote:
Originally posted by Nyx:
Oh boy..
I don't think we need to get so heated over a debate. We're going to start loosing the original point of the thread. I'm not in a position to pass judgement on anyone here, since I'm probably spewing as much "crap" as anyone else. Sometimes the best way to learn is by argument. So I see no reason to stop.
I completely agree with that. I've spewed plenty of crap in my day (literally and figuratively, and with what I am eating right now the former may very well apply later tonight) I just like to make it clear that there is something called objectivity, and there is something called subjectivity and that these two things are very important when you are trying to argue a point. If it doesn't hold up the idea is useless.
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  #53  
Old 04/02/2006, 07:58 AM
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Default Re: What is Time?

Maybe it would help to start a thread on the concept of intuition. I have a feeling there is something being discussed here that is independant of type analysis.
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  #54  
Old 04/02/2006, 11:41 PM
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Default Re: What is Time?

Quote:
Originally posted by Cancel:


Time is change.



Time is duration and I think there is no point to even argue about that.

Time is duration of a process -> process is transformation -> transformation is change.

Time is duration of a change but not change itself.
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  #55  
Old 05/02/2006, 01:59 AM
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Default Re: What is Time?

Quote:
Originally posted by SG:
Time is duration and I think there is no point to even argue about that.
Isn't that a circular definition? What is duration if there is no basis to make comparisons? I am arguing that the basis of these comparisons is change itself.

If nothing could change at all, there would be no such thing as time, because how could we judge it?

Quote:
Time is duration of a process -> process is transformation -> transformation is change.
But in a mental point of view, time is understood as a series of changes. The conception of "time" is just a special case of "change" that is scaled in comparison to a reference frame.

Quote:
Time is duration of a change but not change itself.
How would a person be able to discern the duration of a change without any other changes to compare?

I could give you a drug that makes 10 minutes seem like 10 hours. When you sleep, 8 hours seems like a few minutes. Our only understanding of time aside from our own brains (which itself is based on chemical changes) consists of objectively comparing things to clocks, etc.
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  #56  
Old 05/02/2006, 02:27 AM
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Default Re: What is Time?

Quote:
Originally posted by Cancel:
What is duration if there is no basis to make comparisons? I am arguing that the basis of these comparisons is change itself.
Quote:
How would a person be able to discern the duration of a change without any other changes to compare?
So what's your point? Obviously you need a process which you define as a clock. If your perception of time alters because of a drug this will not affect the actual clock in anyway and all other changes that you observe will not speed up or slow down because you're under the influence of a drug.
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  #57  
Old 05/02/2006, 02:45 AM
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Default Re: What is Time?

I think I understand what you're trying to say. In order to measure change A we need change B, then we can say the duration of change A was 20 B changes, therefore time is change, right? I almost agreed to that except that we measure duration of change A using the duration of change B but not B change itself.

Also how do you measure change B?
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  #58  
Old 05/02/2006, 05:13 AM
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Default Re: What is Time?

Quote:
Originally posted by SG:
I think I understand what you're trying to say. In order to measure change A we need change B, then we can say the duration of change A was 20 B changes, therefore time is change, right? I almost agreed to that except that we measure duration of change A using the duration of change B but not B change itself.

Also how do you measure change B?
Which is EXACTLY why time is measured in "change".

Think about it.

(Remember, nothing is continuous.)
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  #59  
Old 05/02/2006, 10:57 AM
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Default Re: What is Time?

Quote:
Originally posted by Cancel:
Which is EXACTLY why time is measured in "change".

Think about it.
Thanks, I thought about it and now even more convinced that it is EXACTLY why change is measured in "time".

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  #60  
Old 05/02/2006, 04:26 PM
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Default Re: What is Time?

to continue with the point i was making before: time is being. to approach it from a new angle, i will post a quote by those people that study reality, physicists. "...for us physicists who believe, the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one." note my previous posts advocating a non re-presentational, non illusory understanding of time. "time" is to be seen/intuited on the cusp of existence.

the issue of infallibility is interesting, as truth is such a dirty word in our contemporary world. i will say something that can be easily dismissed by some, yet i maintain that it is valid. the intuition is infallible. truth is discernable.
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