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time is being 26/03/2006 02:04 PM

George W. Bush type
from another thread i read that some have typed George W. Bush as ESTp, but i maintain that Bush is ENTp. i know it is a controversial idea for socionics, but: his words/thoughts were less scripted when he bagan his political career, as there was less pressure. this stress and his intense desire to remember what he has been told to say by karl rove has a very negative impact on his ability to demonstrate cognitive ability and lucidity. he essentially freezes up when in public now. (and his fascist beliefs in religion are due to an NT temperament.)

i am unsure about vi-ing him, either estp or entp...

SG 26/03/2006 02:25 PM

Re: George W. Bush type
Why do you hate ENTps so much?

time is being 26/03/2006 02:35 PM

Re: George W. Bush type
i hate wasted potential
what would you type him as?

SG 26/03/2006 02:55 PM

Re: George W. Bush type

jsb'07 26/03/2006 04:29 PM

Re: George W. Bush type
Bush acts like most of the politicians from Beta. To start a wor against something (another state, crime,

Epic 27/03/2006 02:32 AM

Re: George W. Bush type
I see bush as having no personality of his own in the public eye. It seems to me in private he is just like any other man, but in the public he is following orders from other sources. The man never writes his own speeches and it is clear he either doesn't know what he is doing or talking about, or is being bribed in some way. I think that his "opinions" and "ideas" can't really be attributed to him as an individual. He is just a figurehead, and I belief the worst ever presented in modern times(that's the best they could find?).

I think you just have to look into what types are so willing to give up their own individuality. ENTp's do not do this, they especially wouldn't dedicate their lives to doing it.

Transigent 27/03/2006 03:16 PM

Re: George W. Bush type
Some things about Bush:

He is stupid acting for a reason. Who reelected him in 2004? NOT THE COASTS. (The coasts are where the so-called "educated" people are.)

Why does Bush need to be smart, or even act smart? That's right, it IS NOT TO HIS ADVANTAGE TO BE INTELLEGENT. Read up on how he lost his first election in Texas, and more importantly WHY he lost. This is crucial to understanding the W.

The republican party is SMART AS HELL. They know how to dot thier i's and cross thier t's. They know how to win elections and divert attention. They know how to tell stories to achieve public empathy. They know what is meaningful in the public eye (public meaning voting majority meaning dummies) and they know what will be forgotten in a month.

If you are even able to understand how to read the word "understand" know that the republican party could care less what your opinions are. They are only interested in the majority, and the majority are hillbillies from the middle US. Bush being "dumb", he forms a bond with the stupid people. And his "black or white" statements are an example of the redneck way of thinking. (GET R DONE, why the hell is THIS so popular today? Get it now?)

A long time ago, before the 04 elections, when there was global turmoil, Bush came out and made 2 interesting points in his state of the union.

1. Get steroids out of baseball.
2. Get rid of gay marriage.

These things had NOTHING to do with whatever was going on at the time. They weren't important whatsoever. The "educated" people were like "WTF!?" However, these 2 points were the reason that he got reelected. The republican party knows how to think about the future, and they know thier "audience".

Uh, anyway, I know nobody really asked for that info..ahahah

But, keep in mind that the Bush you see is a public figure, and he has been this for YEARS, so nothing he says, does, or acts like can be used reliably.

(Anyway, the "with us or against us" is not likely to be naturally spoken by an ENTp. If you buy into Reinin, it is an Aristocratic attitude (II and IV quadras), or if you look at it differently, it could be a white ethics thing, but not really related to power structures as such. At the core, I would say it has more to do with dividing up the external power according to justifications.)

SG 27/03/2006 05:33 PM

Re: George W. Bush type

Originally posted by Cancel:

He is stupid acting for a reason.

I am not an expert in American politics but why do you think that Bush is actually acting stupid instead of being naturally stupid? The latter makes him a perfect spokesman for Republican party, does what he told no questions asked and on top of that he is as stupid as the majority of the voters without even pretending, makes even more sense to me.

Epic 27/03/2006 06:51 PM

Re: George W. Bush type
I am not a conspiracy theorist, but to me it seems that Bush is not really "dumb" in the sense that he is a blithering idiot. I just think that he is a man with privelidge that gained a position with this privelidge he had. He doesn't really care about politics or anything(like most of the country), he's just riding the opportunities. "wow, I can be president?!" he took this opportunity because it was available to him. He can't make competent decisions because he doesn't pay attention to the issues.

So many other people are willing and anxiously trying to make decisions for him for their own motivations that he never has to think a single bit. His speeches are written, his campaigns are funded, and all he has to do is make the highest bidder happy and he gets a nice big paycheck or a pat on the back. He has no grand vision or perspective, he has no real opinion at all on the matters. like clinton he is just a face, an image. The adivisers to him all seem to have the same motivations as the people that propose new bills for him to sign, and which enemies to choose.

He looks to me like he is SO uninterested in the welfare of the country that he just says anything. You look at the people who have been pulling the strings in washingtion, and the people who run the media and write the president's speeches- they're all pretty much the same people. You look at the war america is in, and who is benefiting, the picture starts to become pretty clear what is going on.

Transigent 27/03/2006 06:52 PM

Re: George W. Bush type
Well, he may not be brilliant, but he acts alot dumber then he actually is.

However, the fact that he is somewhat intellegent really doesn't matter that much, since he obviously doesn't apply it to any practical societal good.

With how silly the democratic party acts with regard to getting themselves elected, I have to wonder if there is some sort of connection, and if they are not just one-and-the-same.

In any case, I realized a while ago that business pretty much runs america, and the world, and there is nothing anybody can do about it unless they have money.

Epic 27/03/2006 07:08 PM

Re: George W. Bush type
yeah, it's a sad truth. There is no difference between democrat and republican other than "personalities"

look at "fox news" its the same crap they have on MSNBC, the figureheads are just tough guys. there is no free speech in the media.

Every network is still pro gay marriage, pro israel, pro immigration, and pretty much(although they try to make it look like they are objective) pro war. just to name a few examples.

the above examples are all issues many many people have very extreme and different views on, yet nowhere will you find an alternate perspective because they're all the same people with the same motivations in control of the "information"

a hundred years ago you could go on a street in a city and probably find all sorts of newspapers with a whole mess of different outlooks and opinions- now if someone expresses their right to say what is on their mind they get called some dirty name and everyone which is personally in agreement is too afraid to speak out. Our behavior is literally controlled by a fear of speaking against the status quo.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't be pro-this or pro-that, but people also have the RIGHT to be against the above mentioned examples without being labeled as an extremist.

Now the bush administration passes "acts" or laws which limit freedom of speech or are against the best interests of citizens and labels them as "patriot" or they have military operations and call them "enduring freedom" so that people will be influenced by the connotations of the words and get all riled up. its all a big con and bush is just taking advantage of it. he wouldn't have gotten elected if he really cared or were any sort of intellectual. Only greedy and simple people gain political power, otherwise they wouldn't have a reputation to begin with.

oh yeah, we were talking about what type bush is, sorry i went all over the place.

booyakasha 28/03/2006 03:10 AM

Re: George W. Bush type
Bush looks like an ESTp to me... his face and the way he carries himself make it rather clear. He has a firm stance, and always seems overly confident. Although this could be due to overcompensation for actually lacking confidence, it seems rather natural for him, and therefore I would say that it is intrinsic. He just doesn't appear as an ENTp... his glance is focused and directed most of the time, which is something most ENTp's I know (including myself), definitely do not have.

On a side note, it is true that he was an excellent debater back during his days on the campaign trail for the Texas governorship. There was a documentary during the Kerry v. Bush times that showed several excerpts from televised debates. He actually spoke intelligently and didn't use any of the rediculous phrases he has been known for utilizing during his presidency. Although he didn't appear as intelligent as his opponent and didn't seem to be in tune with logic as much she was, he made her look prude and outdated.

I believe that this shift in public image was deliberate. His policital strategists have molded him to the Jacksonian ideal--a regular country, rough, perhaps even "redneck" public figure who has achieved the American dream rather than the Andover-Yale-Harvard aristocrat that he really is.

Transigent 28/03/2006 06:31 PM

Re: George W. Bush type
It seems as if people fit into different types whether or not they are "positively" fit or "negatively" fit.

If you hate someone so much you can beat them into a type you hate, but Bush does NOT match up with the positive ENTp traits, where he could match up with the negative ones.

You have to look at it from both sides really, just because you don't like a certain type doesn't mean that everyone you don't like fits that type.

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