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-   -   Socionics and historical cultures (http://www.socionics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1089)

Appleteck 21/10/2008 12:27 AM

Socionics and historical cultures
 
Does anyone know of any research that has been done?

Cyclops 21/10/2008 01:19 PM

Nope ;p

*this message is too short, please lengthen to at least 10 characters*

Vibration 21/10/2008 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyclops (Post 15338)
Nope ;p

*this message is too short, please lengthen to at least 10 characters*

Judging from the behaviour of that guy in your video it seems plausable to assume the existence of a direct link between our ancestors and Socionics (simply the types might be observed among apes, not very surprising if it would be true). But we can't talk to real monster monkeys now can we (or maybe we can)? So... what type is the guy in the video basically? He could be the fifth element.

king 21/10/2008 10:21 PM

Plato was into personality types, think it was pretty different though.

Kanerou 21/10/2008 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by king (Post 15353)
Plato was into personality types, think it was pretty different though.

I'm not aware of Plato's interest/involvement (which doesn't mean a whole lot necessarily), but I know Hippocrates came up with the 4 temperaments.

Appleteck 22/10/2008 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanerou (Post 15355)
I'm not aware of Plato's interest/involvement (which doesn't mean a whole lot necessarily), but I know Hippocrates came up with the 4 temperaments.


I am currently working on a theory of a famous historical culture: The Spartans of ancient Greece. My hypothesis is; they may have been dominated by one brain type. Furthermore, this brain type may have been verified and identifiable at birth via V.I. Very little was written and recorded about The Spartans, what is written is from its enemies. What is known, paints a very unique and distinct set of patterns, laws and customs. I would like to open this up to the group for feedback and insight.

king 22/10/2008 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanerou (Post 15355)
I'm not aware of Plato's interest/involvement (which doesn't mean a whole lot necessarily), but I know Hippocrates came up with the 4 temperaments.

Yeah I was probably talking out of my arse, there was something about the Republic that reminded me of Socionics...possibly a shared political agenda, possibly not.

Didn't know Hippocrates came up with that stuff, pretty cool.

Vibration 22/10/2008 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Appleteck (Post 15366)
I am currently working on a theory of a famous historical culture: The Spartans of ancient Greece. My hypothesis is; they may have been dominated by one brain type. Furthermore, this brain type may have been verified and identifiable at birth via V.I. Very little was written and recorded about The Spartans, what is written is from its enemies. What is known, paints a very unique and distinct set of patterns, laws and customs. I would like to open this up to the group for feedback and insight.

Looking forward... Don't say they were all demolishing ESTp's! When you said Greece I started thinking INTp though... Ehh... But why are Spartans interesting? Is it because ENTp's and ISFp's dislike Se?

king 22/10/2008 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Appleteck (Post 15366)
I am currently working on a theory of a famous historical culture: The Spartans of ancient Greece. My hypothesis is; they may have been dominated by one brain type. Furthermore, this brain type may have been verified and identifiable at birth via V.I. Very little was written and recorded about The Spartans, what is written is from its enemies. What is known, paints a very unique and distinct set of patterns, laws and customs. I would like to open this up to the group for feedback and insight.

Is it possible to VI from birth?

SG 22/10/2008 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by king (Post 15375)
Is it possible to VI from birth?

I'd like to know this too.

Prometheus 22/10/2008 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by king (Post 15375)
Is it possible to VI from birth?

:stunned: ... Come on ... How could you have had time to learn VI before you were even born? Or maybe it's possible to learn VI instantly the second you first see the light? This sounds like magic, man ...

Appleteck 22/10/2008 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prometheus (Post 15387)
:stunned: ... Come on ... How could you have had time to learn VI before you were even born? Or maybe it's possible to learn VI instantly the second you first see the light? This sounds like magic, man ...


Please allow me to clarify the statement: “Furthermore, this brain type may have been verified and identifiable at birth via V.I.” I was referring to the Spartan form of eugenics: “In Sparta, infants were examined at birth and if they were extremely deformed, cachectic or sickly they were placed in the Apothetae (Greek language, ἀποθέτας), meaning "depository" as Plutarch describes. This practice was part of the Spartan institution known as agoge.” This practice was not performed by the parent, but by the state (a trained elder statesman). This is what history tells us, I believe when examining the child at birth, they looked for certain attributes using a primitive form of V.I.

king 22/10/2008 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prometheus (Post 15387)
:stunned: ... Come on ... How could you have had time to learn VI before you were even born? Or maybe it's possible to learn VI instantly the second you first see the light? This sounds like magic, man ...

eats, shoots and leaves.

Kanerou 22/10/2008 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by king (Post 15394)
eats, shoots and leaves.

That's a good book.

Dewy 22/10/2008 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanerou (Post 15355)
I'm not aware of Plato's interest/involvement (which doesn't mean a whole lot necessarily), but I know Hippocrates came up with the 4 temperaments.

The logical/historical premise behind the 4 temperaments is really really stupid. It's predominantly based on gendering bodies based on foolishly physical and socialized traits that aren't even related to psychology at all. From there it just kind of evolved into what we see it as today. Seriously, though. There might be an element of truth there, but I would not say that Hippocrates is responsible for the four temperaments from a socionics perspective.

Kanerou 22/10/2008 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dewy (Post 15396)
The logical/historical premise behind the 4 temperaments is really really stupid. It's predominantly based on gendering bodies based on foolishly physical and socialized traits that aren't even related to psychology at all. From there it just kind of evolved into what we see it as today. Seriously, though. There might be an element of truth there, but I would not say that Hippocrates is responsible for the four temperaments from a socionics perspective.

I was referring to Hippocrates' 4, not the Socionics 4. Hippocrates' temperaments work, though they are very simplistic. Certainly, it has changed since his time. I think each temperament corresponds to a Socionic temperament, but I have no way to prove it, and when the types are involved, it wouldn't translate cleanly.

king 23/10/2008 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Appleteck (Post 15393)
Please allow me to clarify the statement: “Furthermore, this brain type may have been verified and identifiable at birth via V.I.” I was referring to the Spartan form of eugenics: “In Sparta, infants were examined at birth and if they were extremely deformed, cachectic or sickly they were placed in the Apothetae (Greek language, ἀποθέτας), meaning "depository" as Plutarch describes. This practice was part of the Spartan institution known as agoge.” This practice was not performed by the parent, but by the state (a trained elder statesman). This is what history tells us, I believe when examining the child at birth, they looked for certain attributes using a primitive form of V.I.

Do the visual characteristics, relating to VI originate from birth or do they develop as a result of us using our functions?

What have you researched to suggest that the Spartans may have actually done this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanerou (Post 15395)
That's a good book.

it is, isn't it.

Appleteck 23/10/2008 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by king (Post 15398)
Do the visual characteristics, relating to VI originate from birth or do they develop as a result of us using our functions?

What have you researched to suggest that the Spartans may have actually done this?



it is, isn't it.

The city of Sparta was a city-state in ancient Greece, situated on the River Eurotas in the southern part of the Peloponnese, between c. 650 and 362 BC. Because of this, all research must be conducted from mostly written materials. Therefore, most of what I have read is from a number of published works and history books. Again, very little was written and recorded about The Spartans, what is written is from its enemies. What is known, paints a very unique and distinct set of patterns, laws and customs.

This is what I wish to discuss, the very unique actions and behaviors of the Spartan culture. This uniqueness is across the board, all known Spartans (man, women and child) appear to have acted in this way. When one can identify a number of unique patterns, it can become easier for one to categorize. The same applies for brain types. History has left us clues by examples and written records.

Kanerou 23/10/2008 08:00 PM

http://www.geocities.com/ariana_kanatsuki/what9000.jpg

Ahem. Carry on.

king 23/10/2008 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Appleteck (Post 15402)
The city of Sparta was a city-state in ancient Greece, situated on the River Eurotas in the southern part of the Peloponnese, between c. 650 and 362 BC. Because of this, all research must be conducted from mostly written materials. Therefore, most of what I have read is from a number of published works and history books. Again, very little was written and recorded about The Spartans, what is written is from its enemies. What is known, paints a very unique and distinct set of patterns, laws and customs.

This is what I wish to discuss, the very unique actions and behaviors of the Spartan culture. This uniqueness is across the board, all known Spartans (man, women and child) appear to have acted in this way. When one can identify a number of unique patterns, it can become easier for one to categorize. The same applies for brain types. History has left us clues by examples and written records.

I think this would be brilliant if it were true but struggle to see how it would be...I will present my arguement in the form of a numbered list

1. As far as I'm aware babies all look the same, I don't know how it would be possible to identify a newborn baby using VI because of this, visuallyspotting deformities is one thing, but personality? From what I know VI is a highly skilled practice anyway and is generally unreliable, unless used in context with other information....even if it were possible, it would be necessary for the inspector person to recognise how a fully developed adult would have looked as a baby, in order to compare and speculate how the personality of the baby would develop.

2. I don't really know anything about the developement of babies...however I could speculate that maybe they looked at the babies behaviour (I'm not even sure newborn babies can smile for a number of weeks though, so expressions would be ruled out), I have not heard anything that suggests to me that this is possible and I would imagine the reliability of this would be......not reliable.

3. You have not suggested from what you've written, in anyway that the spartans favoured particular brain types, or killed babies for anything other than physical deformities.

I would suggest looking into the developement of babies, to see whether your theory has any plausability.

Also see if in your study of Spartan history, if you can find any evidence that they killed babies for anything other than physical deformities (excessive crying etc)

Even if it wasn't true the idea could make some great fiction


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