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Question #1296202593Friday, 28-Jan-2011
Category: ESFj INTj Duality Relationship Love
I am an ESFj and have had feelings for an INTj friend of mine for several years. Being that we're friends and have been so close over the years I don't know how to break it to them without making them upset. I've already tried "hinting" with them that I'm interested by pointing out the duality between us and that seems to already have weirded them out and they seem to be avoiding me. I feel like I've already lost them and that trying to win them over is a hopeless battle. . . but I'm willing to try and make this work, (after-all we're duals in typing and sub-typing and have several similar interests.) The problem is in getting them to understand just how great we'd be together as more than friends. . . if any of you INTj's can fill me in on some helpful ideas in getting this INTj to notice me as more then a friend I'd be very appreciative. -- One confused ESFj
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Your Answers: 1+
A1 I am a male INTJ. I have had a brief relationship with an ESFJ. One thing INTJ's like is directness. They don't like these hints because they are extremely guarded with their feelings and will not say they like you unless they are 100% sure that you like them. The only way you will likely find out whether he cares for you or not is to ask him directly...PERIOD Now, just as a warning, my relationship was cut short because I could not deal with her emotional side. INTJ's are TERRIBLE at showing affection. That is not to say we aren't affectionate, we are just plain bad at showing it. The ESFJ-INTJ dynamic is one of the worst out there. I felt like my ESFJ was on a completely different planet than me. Hope you do better than I did lol!...and remember: DIRECTNESS. -- Matt
A2 I too am a male INTJ. When in a relationship I shower my girlfriend with affection. Not in words but with soft touches. honestly have you ever considered getting drunk with him? -- Anonymous
A3 I'm an INTJ female. Just by your post, if you were an ESFj male interested in me, I would have dismissed you long ago. Nothing personal, but by your post it is clear you don't "get it". Perhaps male INTJs are flattered by a female interested in them and "willing to work it out", perhaps not; I definitely am NOT-just annoyed. I have had numerous males her are "fascinated" by me, willing to "work at it with me"-what they just don't get is I am NOT interested. If you want the INTJ to notice you, seriously, work on yourself. Work on your grammar. Work on your self-confidence. Work on fostering something interesting that you want to master. Be dedicated. Set and maintain high-standards. DON'T put it on stage for an INTJ or parade it around as it will completely devalue your efforts. An INTJ will notice. Last, just because YOU think you'd be great together with an INTJ, doesn't mean the INTJ agrees. INTJs are choosy and "scientific" in choosing mates, and would much prefer to be alone than to be with the wrong one. An INTJ is likely to choose ONE lifelong mate to whom he or she is devoted. INTJs don't give their love or devotion easily or freely. -- Anonymous
A4 Hi ESFj! I doubt A1 has typed both himself and his partner correctly. "The ESFJ-INTJ dynamic is one of the worst out there." Just a completely false statement. His advice is garbage. I have doubts about your self-typing as well, ESFj, but I'm skeptical of everything by nature. I'm far better at typing INTjs than ESFjs. You seem confident in your own typing though. I am curious as to which subtype you are. Please continue this discussion, and provide a more detailed description of yourself, your INTj and your relationship, and I will do what I can to help you. You can rest assured A2 and A3 are indeed INTj, although A3 has clearly never been in a close relationship with a dual, and as such has not learned how valuable you truly are to us. She is high with low , exhibiting poor utilization of the people around her. She does have a good point though. If you truly are an ESFj, every single day you should be perfecting every aspect of yourself and the world and people around you. This behavior is the hidden agenda of the ESFj and it is both astonishing and fascinating to INTjs. But this is a double-edged sword. Take it too far and it will be overwhelming to yourself and those around you, and you could come off as nagging. However, if you truly are ESFj there is nothing you must do to win over the INTj than to be yourself. You need not worry about how you can change your behavior to be more compatible with him. You've already won the lottery, so stop buying tickets! In my opinion, the primary reason for the INTj's behavior is that he/she does not find you sexually attractive. If you are a dual, and you have passed the initial phase of the relationship, there will be no psychological incompatibility. This is a dire situation indeed. I can't personally see an INTj being coerced into a relationship with someone they weren't sexually attracted to. Obviously from your post, the INTj already got the message. He knows you like him. The jig is up. Stop hinting, and don't tell him directly as you'll ruin your chances. INTj will tell you exactly how they feel. If not through their words, then their body language and the way they phrase what they say. If they want something to come out, the ESFj can easily sense it, and it will indeed come out. If they don't like you, no amount of hinting you like them will make them reciprocate. However, INTjs do like being friends before becoming lovers. As an INTj, I can say all my girlfriends were close friends before it became a romantic relationship. Don't push. Don't pressure. When the INTj is ready they will give you a sign. Until then, integrate yourself further into his life by providing the services only an ESFj can. Here are some suggestions derived from my own long-term relationship with an ESFj: Always be sincere. Make delicious food for them! And do it a lot! It doesn't have to be over the top but let them know you always consider their physical needs. Chances are you already know your INTjs favorite foods and drinks. Its also likely that they don't like to cook and thus rarely get to enjoy it. Be a great gift-giver. Doesn't have to be expensive as long as it is profoundly thoughtful. Be their emotional support. Use that of yours to get them to express their feelings, but never ever pry for something that just isn't there. Give them space when they need it. Spending several hours a day with people is exhausting, for all INTjs. If you're spending more than two hours communicating with them in a day, you're overwhelming them. Once their responses become short or a little agitated, its probably time to go. Come back and see them another time, after they recharge themselves. Never forget that valuable you are to your INTj. They are lucky to have you in their life and you are wise to have recognized the value of your relationship. Now all you have to do is show them why this is the case. The key word is show. Don't tell them why they need you, show them through positive interaction in their life. -- travis
A5 Hold on a second here; when talking of an ESFJ-INTJ dynamic, are we talking about Fe-Si(ESFJ/ESFj) and Ni-Te(INTJ/INTp), or Fe-Si and Ti-Ne(INTP/INTj)? This is a hugely important distinction as the former is a conflicting relationship and the latter duality. Please be careful to make your understanding clear about whether your 4-letter abbreviations denote MBTI or Socionics function layouts before handing out "advice." -- Anonymous
A6 Always remember that inter-type relations only describe ease of communication, not the ability for relationships to actually work healthily. Just because a relationship of duality means that you both communicate to each other in amazingly complementary ways doesn't mean that you have any relationship compatibility. -- Anonymous
A7 I am an INTj female. From both personal experience and the description of duality on this website, I would say that you should avoid him a little bit. It would reset things, make him appreciate you more, and totally turn the tables on him. A puzzled INTj is an interested INTj. No need to be mean, which could backfire, just communicate through actions that you've moved on with your life and are content without him. He might even come to question whether you really liked him in the first place, removing the reason for his nervousness. Men are also generally more appreciative of women that are mysterious. -- Anonymous
A8 In an an INTJ female and I agree 100% with comment A3. After reading a couple of sentences of the original post I could feel myself falling into a coma of boredom so I moved on. My brain only re-engaged upon reading comment A3. I have a sister who is an ESFJ. I can't stand to be in the same room with her. The drama. The tantrums. The illogic. The constant need to be the center of attention. The sense of entitlement. The refusal to engage a brain cell to think far enough ahead to see the consequences of her actions. Boring, so boring. And poisonous to an INTJ. Do everyone a favor and move on, my good sir. And A4? There is thing amazing thing called a paragraph. Employ it. -- Snarky INTJ
A9 Wow. I wrote this so long ago it feels like a dream. I guess I should update the world of socionics! I did tell him how I felt and while I knew his answer would be no, I also knew that I needed to get it out in the open so that I could move on. To date I'm finally over him and moving on in a relationship with my activity partner (an ENTp). To me, the activity relationship is a whole lot easier for me to be happy in. They tend to be better at keeping up with me then INTj's. It is funny, the aforementioned INTj says that he often wonders if he actually made the right decision in saying no. At this point, I think that he did. We both just weren't ready for a relationship. -- One confused ESFJ no longer confused. =)
A10 A8 Think you may have described an ESFP because that sounds identical to my annoying ESFP Parent and other ESFPs I've encountered. The distinguishing part being "The refusal to engage a brain cell to think far enough ahead to see the consequences of her actions." That sounds more P than J. Then again I'm not a self-proclaimed expert like A4... ESFPs and ESFJs don't seem to be all that different to begin with. -- An INTJ
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