| Socionics Personals |  | Female
Straight
16-25
Oceania
Libra
ENFj |
|  | Male
Straight
16-25
Middle East
Sagittarius
INTj |
|  | Male
Straight
26-35
North America
Pisces
INXj |
| | Join now! |
Who is who?Learn how to convert between different systems
V.I.An introduction into the widely used Socionics Visual Identification technique
TestsA collection of Socionics related tests and quizes
Q & AsAsk a Socionics related question or provide an answer to an existing one
ArticlesVarious articles on the subject of Socionics and Types in general
ForumsWant to discuss Type? Head to Socionics Forums!
|
| Questions & Answers |
| Question #1213351491 | Friday, 13-Jun-2008 |
|
|
Why do INTJs and ESTPs tend to be so attracted to each other and yet most often cannot make a relationship work? I (and ESTP) have never been more attracted to a type than I am to INTJs, but not one of those relationships turned into something serious. Most often, I found myself in long, drawn-out, frustrating situations where one person would put effort into the relationship, the other would give up on the relationship and then we would switch roles - never being on the same page at the same time. Can you explain this phenomenon? And if so, why are ESTPs so attracted to INTJs if they are so different? -A Confused and Tired ESTP  -- Meg |
|
|
|
| A21 It's funny how most people in here didn't figured out that Meg wasn't talking about INTj's but about INTJ's. She comes most likely from Myers-Briggs where INTJ's are what we call here on socionics INTp's or ILI's. People, even one of the admins read here comment, looked on the calculator and then said "ok so supervision relation...no attraction" without figuring out that maybe she has the year-old dilemma of who is who. On the other hand, INTp's and ESTp's have a relation of semi-duality which is the source of the biggest attraction in socion. They can even be compatible if both want to improve their shortcomings. This means ESTp's wanting to become more abstract and INTp's wanting to become more assertive and in the moment. I personally am an INTp and I arrived at this forum by google-ing "estp attracted to intj" because I'm very attracted to the ESTp's in my life and they are as well. -- Mastermind |
| A22 A21 ***DISCLOSURE: I intentionally capitalize the last letter; lowercase 'P' or 'J' just looks like an accidental typo. The only reason I don't incorporate it... I'm a bit OCD-ish. I rather just specify whether I'm talking about Socionics or MBTI, if I don't specify, I'm more than likely talking about both.*** Because despite the debate between a Socionics and MBTI INTJ... some are probably just as skeptical of the differences as myself. I've come to the conclusion that MBTI and Socionics are each covering one half of the entire equation that defines an undefined "ultimate" INTJ. [Example: Soci INTP + MBTI INTJ= An INT1; Soci INTJ + MBTI INTP= An INT2; Soci INTP + MBTI INTP= Ultimate INTP; Soci INTJ + MBTI INTJ= Ultimate INTJ. I won't go into the core of my theory but this highlights the basics.] Supposedly Te and Ti are the "differences" between the two theories when determining whether you're an INTJ or INTP... but to be honest, I'm equally capable of balancing both Te with Ti. I don't even think there's such a thing as an introverted or extroverted function; just PERCEIVED differences. The only reason someone might perceive a function as being introverted or extroverted is strictly because the individual himself/herself is introverted or extroverted; not the function alone. I think cognitive functions are mostly BS; they're loosely worded in such a way they can be interpreted to fit closely resembled types: INTJ or INTP, INFJ or INFP, etc.... like horoscopes. I've taken various MBTI test, the short and long versions on this Socionics site, and many others. All of which seem to be covering different aspects of my overall way of operating. But to address an inaccuracy you've made... being a MBTI INTJ doesn't automatically make you a Socionics INTP; or vice versa. That's a common misconception that floats around on these forums. To answer the core of your response, I wouldn't place too much stock on this interrelation BS because I find ESFP and ESFJ women equally annoying; one is my "dual" and the other is "conflicting"; I find ESTP's more tolerable. I couldn't care less whether you have a J or P if you're a SF. I can't spend too much time with SFs, they have a squared oversimplified view of the world, STs as well, but at least STs use facts to oversimplify things and not spur-of-the-moment straight-out-the-ass emotion. Despite this "Supervison" label... I'm usually on equal or in a favorable position with most ESTPs. To me it's an equally beneficial relationship. INTJs can be opened to the more social/"fun" aspects, and ESTPs are usually open-minded enough to be taught the more abstract; unlike their closed-minded ESTJ or ESFJ cousins or ADD-ish ESFP sister (who probably didn't make it past the first sentence of this block of text). You're relying too heavily on THEORY to tell you who YOU work well with. I for one find ESTP women more attractive than ESFJ's or ESFP's. INTJs and ESTPs have a sort of Bonnie and Clyde/Yin and Yang relationship. I like ESTJs as well, but we clash way too often on how things should be done. They tend to value boring tradition over innovation. But ulimately I can only see myself with another NT or an INFJ long-term. -- MBTI and Socionics INTJ |
| A23 @A22 - You go! Thanks for all the work. ☺ For all the previous lovelorn posters...I've been in a happy relationship for six months and am an INTJ/P female, he's an ESTP/j. We met on OK Cupid as a 94% match after answering 100+ questions over 3 days and then closed my account. As the INTx, I just need to remember to pause, get in touch with my emotions and then communicate them to him - tell him how much he means to me, how hot I think he is, etc. Although he is very territorial, he has made space for me and my things at his place. Additionally, I need clarity, so on Sunday nights during dinner we look at our calendars and plan our upcoming week together. In any relationship, open & honest communication is key, between an INTx & ESTP, it's critical. You have to set expectations for what you want in the beginning of the relationship and then hold each other accountable. -- Claire |
| A24 It is a nightmare. Intj-female in love with Estp-male. Everything you guys posted sounds just like us, exactly. I left him because of what I20 wrote before me but I miss him and adore him yet I won't stick around if he is indecisive, for all i know nothing will ever happen,we are both on our late 30's so no more fooling around for me. If he looks for me for the 10th time either I conform to being just a woman in his life or I take my dignity and become the nothing for the rest of our lives. And yes he is perfect and won me with his honesty and crazy energy. -- Anonymous |
| A25 I'm a 61 year old female INTJ who has been in a continuous relationship with an ESTP male since about 1991! I've also been a primary school class teacher since 1983. I'll talk about the school kids first- I find I always love the SP kids- they are so full of life. And I think they get a better deal from me than they do from many teachers as INTJs have this thing where they can't stand others controlling their thoughts and ideas and letting others develop their potential as best they can. So SPs especially ESTPs really do well with me because I respect their need for freedom and don't put them down for who they are. (There aren't many INTJ teachers but probably even less ESTP teachers for the little ESTPs to really light up their educational experience from the same perspective.) Now my long lasting relationship with my ESTP partner who is a motorbike mechanic- who rides really fast, currently has no licence and went on a 3 month ride through Canada and America from Australia- to overcome the impediment and lack of fast motion without a licence. He figured successfully that OS if he got into trouble riding the police would only look at his Australian licence- in Aus we still keep the actual physical licence when it has been cancelled. Anyway just as well I'm an independent INTJ and allow him his freedom- much as I do with the ESTP kids at school. However, the biggest bug bear in our relationship for me is not things like him falling out of the tree whilst standing on a rotten branch using a chainsaw (duh!), it's the constant supervision of my behaviour. It hasn't always been easy. I think it helps that I grew up on a farm in Western Queensland (20 000 acres) and the males in my early life were very active outdoor types and the sight of a man in a suit just doesn't do it for me. -- Anonymous |
| *Please note that the opinions expressed are not necessarily those of socionics.com* |
|
| Would you like to add anything? |
(When posting, we ask you to make the effort to qualify your opinions.)
|
|
