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Question #1192208967Friday, 12-Oct-2007
Category: ESTj ISTj Theory Stereotype
Is it true that ESTJs and ISTJs tend to be religious fanatics? Being SJs, fundamentalism would come naturally to them. -- ENTP
Your Answers: 1+
A1 I wouldn't think so unless they were raised that way or have a good thing going being perceived as fundamentalists. However, once entrenched, they can be fanatical about societal rules and structure, and their own view of the world. -- I/O
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A2 Here's my best attempt to answer: 1. ESTjs dominant will observe religion as a matter of fact, something that already exists in the world and matters to people, and there's nothing they can do about it. So accept it. If they're interacting with religion, socially i.e. if they outwardly profess their views in public, would lead them here on its own, only if there's no other way to get anyone to listen. might lead them to emphasize it, though, to incorporate it into their identity, because that kind of negotiation has worked. ISTjs (in my estimation) will not involve themselves in religion unless previous attempts to interact in their straightforward, pragmatic manner have failed. "This thing here is about this thing here and there's no indication from the thing we should look at it any other way." But might have led them to recognize (even memorize) the ins-and-outs of important passages of religious text. This makes sense if it's in their background. But they would not direct attention your away from a specific non-religious matter unless you won't listen any other way. Then it will be an -style show of force. Whether an ISTj actually *believes* will depend on them, and their background. -- ENTj
A3 You cant type religiuos conviction. I know SJ types who are not religiuos at all, and I know NT types(ENTP's included) who are very fanatical about thier religiuos belief's. I know of an NT type who set out in a very rational and scientific way, to disprove the existance of God. He was an athiest at the time. He became a christian and wrote a long book documenting scientific, historic and archiological facts which led him to his conclusions. -- Anonymous
A4 A3, you're talking about Lee Strobel's "Case for ..." books, right? I'm afraid I read those & saw right through a lot of his so-called logic. I'm not all that sure of his rational nature. I especially bristled at the way he intro'd chapters by recalling some story back from when he was a reporter covering high-profile court cases and then moved from a very strict journalistic tone to a practically Keillor-esque recounting of yet another coffee calmly sipped in some Christian academic's office. He didn't even bother to hold interviews with the other end of the spectrum, further irritating me. I'd like to be more generous to the guy, but his incongruency jumped out of nearly every page. -- iAnnAu
A5 ESTJ are not religious believe me im an ESTJ -- *vanessa*
A6 @A4 - Careful, being "irritated" by someone's arguments is a pretty good sign you're not being particularly logical yourself, and are instead responding emotionally ("irritation" being an emotion). I've not read the books myself, but NTs and STs can certainly be strongly religious, they just express it differently from NFs and SFs. See here for more: http://socionics.us/practice/spirituality.shtml and http://socionist.blogspot.com/2007/03/identifying-types-of-religions-and.html -- Krig (INTj)
A7 I think FJ types tend to be more so. -- Anonymous
A8 I think those types can be fundamental, and fanatics in general. I know religious SJs and they are very black and white about their beliefs. But I have SJ friends who are liberal and think they are 'open-minded', but they're really just closed-minded and fundamental about 'liberal' beliefs. A5 is pretty fundamentally sure that ESTJs are not religious. My pastor is like an INFP probably, and is very open-minded, but convicted. SJs are interested in believing the 'right' thing, because to them it's simplistic and clear. They don't do ambiguity, or abstract. So yes, STJs can be religious fanatics... or political fanatics. -- Anonymous
A9 Well all I have is my personal experience but I'm an ISTJ, and a religious fundamentalist-Independent Baptist, to be exact. About as Christian fundamentalist as it gets (barring loonies like Fred Phelps and his ilk, which I don't consider to be Christian at all). For that matter, I'm a bit uncomfortable giving much credence to to "personality types", as a Christian. I don't know exactly why. -- Melanie
A10 Religion is attractive to certain individuals becase it provides order, structure and rules...yuck. My ISFp mother is much more religious than my ESTj father, however. -- INFp
A11 It's impossible to say that certain types are more inclined to be religious without some good polls to really examine that. What we can say, however, is that different types treat religion differently and it means different things to each of them. For the ISTj it may be rote memorization of scripture and a structure whereby to live one's life. For the INFj it may be a way of connecting to the original source of love and striving for moral perfection. -- Anonymous
A12 I would guess that ESTJ's can be obsessive, even fanatic, about what they believe in. Being extremely rational, it is just as likely that they will believe adamantly that there is no god. In other words, ENTJ's could easily embrace science as their religion. (My son is an ENTJ and goes to a catholic prep school. I love how logical and straightforward he can be about what he thinks about god [that there is no god] with his classmates. I think he scares some of them : ) -- Anonymous
A13 A10: if religion provided just structure and rules, I wouldn't be religious. But it provides everything, from new and new questions and mysteries to good books. As to the original question, most fanatic Christians I know are Ni, but there are many other types among them so I think basically anyone can be a religious fanatic. But Ns are IMHO more prone to it because Ss often get held back by their practicality. On the other hand, they're theoretically more susceptible to the influence of the environment - when they get into a group of fanatics they'll probably start acting like one or at least helping them (especially Ses) sooner than Ns. A5: My aunt is a pastor and she's an ESTj -- Ezis (ESFp)
A14 I've always believed in God, I've tried being an atheist but my belief in God seems to be immoveable. I thought that this was down to the fact I am an SJ but I have recently been digging up my family tree and found religious people in the salvation army on my fathers side from generations ago that I never knew about. Also most people in my fathers family are perceivers so religion might be both genetic and down to type. -- ESTJ Female
A15 Interesting, I came from a deeply religious family and was devout until around age 12-13, when I began questioning everything. I desperately tried to hold onto faith (that any god would place so much emphasis on trusting the word passed by fallible humans and historical documents continues to baffle me), but my developing sense of reason made the whole notion seem unlikely at best, while the very human motivations behind creating and believing in a religion became more and more obvious. I'm an ENTP and, while I have met other rationals who are religious, we tend to be a more skeptical, analytical group than other types and are more likely to reject traditional beliefs. While STJ's do generally accept as a given the religion of the society they are raised in (or maybe irreligion if they're raised in a nonreligious society/family), I think FJ's tend to be the more spiritual ones that form the core of any religion -- Anonymous
A16 I agree with answer 15. The majority of my family happens to be Ss and motley are VERY religious, to the point of not even letting me play Yugioh. My brother and I managed to slip through the cracks though. We're both INTs (he's p, I'm j) and neither of us are into religion much. Anyway, I think that if any type is more likely to be a religious fanatic, it would be ESs, more specifically, ESFs. -- Vira Q.
A17 I'm an ISTj and I think it depends on what you consider a fanatic. Am I a believer that there is some super power god? No. But I do hold strong values of right and wrong. I believe in karma and that you shouldn't do anything bad to another person because it will come back at you. So in some ways I am a fanatic but religiously believing in a god no. I tend to find more interest in thing like Wicca or Pagans then I do in Christianity. Though I don't believe in a super power god. I do believe the bible is a good book to help people learn right from wrong. Give them some sort of direction in life that is with morals. One thing I can see with religious or for example being a member of a church is they have a strong community in most. Most of my family is really religious and have attended the same church since before I was born. My grandmother played a big roll in the church and volunteered a lot of her time to activities as well as teaching Sunday School. Anyways I don't consider myself a fanatic. Only a fanatic in it works -- Anonymous
A18 Although different types tend to view their faith tradition through their ego functions, the conclusions they reach can still vary considerably. I personally know ESTjs who are ministers, others who are laypeople, and others still who are agnostic. Any way you slice it, your typical ESTj wants to do what makes the most sense to them in terms of tangible practicality, i.e. [Si]. Some ESTjs view religion as stifling and limiting one's ability to be of real use to society. They may see religion as a waste of time; why meditate or pray go to church when you could be working in a homeless shelter or running a nonprofit? You don't need religion in order to do good, they may say. Other ESTjs see their faith tradition as a tried-and-true way to be of great use to society; religion also gives them handy rules (since ESTjs long for direction with this function) so they know how to treat others better. -- An INFj
*Please note that the opinions expressed are not necessarily those of socionics.com*
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