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  #1  
Old 31/10/2011, 06:15 AM
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Default Type Steve Jobs

Extra credit points if you have read/listened to his biography. If you have it's a no-brainer.
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Old 31/10/2011, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Appleteck View Post
Extra credit points if you have read/listened to his biography. If you have it's a no-brainer.
If you know his type why are you asking?
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  #3  
Old 31/10/2011, 04:27 PM
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Other opinions on his type.
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Old 31/10/2011, 04:35 PM
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OK I could give you my opinion on his type and even justify it somewhat. Can't speak for anyone else so as usual i'll speak for myself lol - I'd quite like to see what type you think he is and particularly your reasons for this type.

I've seen you post a few types on here but never seen your reasoning for them.

I'll give you my reasoning for his type after you've gave me yours, if you like.
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  #5  
Old 01/11/2011, 08:56 PM
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Thank you for the offer/feedback, however I could write a second book on all the reasons for his type. Maybe on the next typing/posting.
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  #6  
Old 03/11/2011, 12:46 AM
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He reminds me of john lennon .
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  #7  
Old 08/11/2011, 03:35 PM
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He looks extremely ENTp!!!
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  #8  
Old 08/11/2011, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Appleteck View Post
Thank you for the offer/feedback, however I could write a second book on all the reasons for his type. Maybe on the next typing/posting.
I see you typed him as ENTp.

Maybe you could try ENFj if you ever get round to re-drafting that book you could write
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Old 09/11/2011, 12:26 AM
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Ha! My dual? Sorry Mr. Jobs was far from it. As I said on the other post, if you want to know the mind of a ENTp read the Jobs book. It is a classic example of a highly intellect ENTp at his best and worst.
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  #10  
Old 14/11/2011, 11:18 PM
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Here's why Steve Jobs is an ENFj:

Highly animate, persuasive, charismatic, visionary, motivational, and dramatic. Likes attention and posing for the camera. Has a carefully crafted persona and frequently changes his appearance. Has an autocratic streak and foists his tastes and mindset on others. Here is an interesting quote about Jobs' visionary qualities:

Jobs is both admired and criticized for his consummate skills of persuasion and salesmanship, which has been dubbed the "reality distortion field" (visit this link!) and is particularly evident during his keynote speeches at Macworld Expos [Wikipedia].

This distortion effect comes from dishing out vision with a powerful emotional (even hypnotic) component. It causes people to have unwavering faith in what is "supposed" to happen and do whatever it takes to get there.

This ("reality distortion field") is prime Fe with Ni. Which is why he's ENFj. It's not really got to do with his taste in underwear or oxygen masks.
The description you have given for Mr. Jobs is straight out of the newspapers and applies more to ENTp’s than ENFj’s. Unfortunately, this is only half the story- the ready-made half. If you cannot read/listen to the book, I can give you some vanilla examples of his type/behavior:

1. How he would “change” his mind to suite his needs/goals. Most “j” types would call this form of communication straight lying.
2. How he would take credit for others work and ideas. The funny thing is he would do it right to their face and make them like it by using his “reality distortion field”.
3. How he would ask some Apple employees, “What do you do for me?” If he did not like the answer, he would have them fired. See public firings.
4. How he would agree with someone and immediately turnaround and put down the idea and/or person behind their backs.
5. In some interviews he came in with shorts & flip flops and asked questions like: “What age did you lose your virginity?” or the classic, “How many times have you taken LSD?”
6. I can continue to go on and on but won’t give the book justice. For more quotes go to: http://mashable.com/2011/10/29/steve-jobs-book-quotes/

NOTE: Always remember the primary preference for each
personality and determine if it strongly applies to the subject. An elementary step in personality typing, in the case of SJ’s it’s not even close.

ENFj:
extraverted ethics
ENTp:
extraverted intuition
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  #11  
Old 15/11/2011, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Appleteck View Post
The description you have given for Mr. Jobs is straight out of the newspapers and applies more to ENTp’s than ENFj’s. Unfortunately, this is only half the story- the ready-made half. If you cannot read/listen to the book, I can give you some vanilla examples of his type/behavior:
No it's actually straight out of the description of and

Quote:
1.
Quote:
How he would “change” his mind to suite his needs/goals. Most “j” types would call this form of communication straight lying.
2. How he would take credit for others work and ideas. The funny thing is he would do it right to their face and make them like it by using his “reality distortion field”.
3. How he would ask some Apple employees, “What do you do for me?” If he did not like the answer, he would have them fired. See public firings.
4. How he would agree with someone and immediately turnaround and put down the idea and/or person behind their backs.
5. In some interviews he came in with shorts & flip flops and asked questions like: “What age did you lose your virginity?” or the classic, “How many times have you taken LSD?”
6. I can continue to go on and on but won’t give the book justice. For more quotes go to: http://mashable.com/2011/10/29/steve-jobs-book-quotes/
How does this relate to the functions? You haven't explained that yet.

Quote:
NOTE: Always remember the primary preference for each
Quote:
personality and determine if it strongly applies to the subject. An elementary step in personality typing, in the case of SJ’s it’s not even close.

ENFj: extraverted ethics
ENTp: extraverted intuition
So you think your quotes are indicitive of ? How?

Ashura said that typing should be done on the basis of functional analysis, therefore it's the cornerstone of socionics (as she invented socionics).

Classical socionics does make some use of the dichotomies but they are limited and certainly not to be done in place of the functions. You make one reference of a dichotomy, the J vs P which can be argued to be the hardest of the dichotomies to differentiate. You haven't produced an argument yet for ENTp (or any type yet).

Last edited by Cyclops; 15/11/2011 at 03:20 PM. Reason: I have no idea why the forum is putting random breaks in Appletecks quoted post
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  #12  
Old 15/11/2011, 06:24 PM
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We are discussing if Mr. Jobs was an ENFj or ENTp, that being the case the primary preference is important. It is important because of the extreme difference between: extraverted ethics/extraverted intuition. Remember, every “clue” is important, but you have to be open to listen for it and knowledgeable enough to understand it.

As for functional analysis, it is but one tool to determine type. The tools we use depend on the overall life experiences (OLE) we have and how deep our “type detector” repertoire is (shameless plug: it doesn't hurt to be an ISTj). The less experience or knowledge we have, the more we attempt to use written materials and abstract references and/or documentation.

For the last 25+ years, I have had the fortune to have worked and lived in very unique and personality focused environments, which has allowed me to expand my V.I. and typing skills more than most. Lastly, having worked with hundreds of ENTp’s over the last 25+ years I can now recognize most on sight. No experience can be communicated properly and V.I./typing is no exception to this rule.

Morpheus: "There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path."
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  #13  
Old 15/11/2011, 07:00 PM
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None of your post addresses the why this person is (in your opinion) an ENTp.

It does address that he's an ENTp because... you say so and that should be enough.

Quote:
It is important because of the extreme difference between: extraverted ethics/extraverted intuition.
You haven't addressed the "important", or any differences between Fe and Ne.

Quote:
The tools we use depend on the overall life experiences (OLE) we have and how deep our “type detector” repertoire is (shameless plug: it doesn't hurt to be an ISTj). The less experience or knowledge we have, the more we attempt to use written materials and abstract references and/or documentation.
If we're both talking about the same thing - which is socionics, then by it's definition we should be able to discuss the same concepts, albeit perhaps a debate coming from different interpretations of the subject, but still the actual subject.

EG lets say you think you've met 100 ISTjs, which is based on your life experiences, how can you be sure that by socionics that the first (and therefore any) ISTj you met actually is ISTj, if you can't justify that type by the intrinsic laws of socionics? If you can't do this, then what you get is a system which might work for yourself, but not a system that can be discussed, compared and debated with peers.
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  #14  
Old 15/11/2011, 08:24 PM
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Socionics is not as simple as following the “intrinsic laws”. As you know each type can exhibit all elements and dichotomies. It takes much more than the standard rules and regulations sometimes to “crack” the type code, other times it’s as easy as pie. However, let us go over each of the dichotomies on a high level:

Rationality/ Irrationality: Turning on a dime with ideas, people, projects, diets, promises, etc. are all facts of his life.

Extraversion/ Introversion: His speeches, talks and presentations are legendary, as are his tirades, lies and put downs.

Intuition/ Sensing: No one can debate his sense of intuition with people, places, things and ideas. The word “intuition” is used in his book countless times for good reason.

Logic/ Ethics: He used his intelligence to collaborate with the people in the field of, computers, music, movies, T.V. film editing, etc. over his lifetime. Using any means necessary to get what he wanted. See Extraversion.
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Old 15/11/2011, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Appleteck View Post
Socionics is not as simple as following the “intrinsic laws”. As you know each type can exhibit all elements and dichotomies. It takes much more than the standard rules and regulations sometimes to “crack” the type code, other times it’s as easy as pie. However, let us go over each of the dichotomies on a high level:

Rationality/ Irrationality: Turning on a dime with ideas, people, projects, diets, promises, etc. are all facts of his life.

Extraversion/ Introversion: His speeches, talks and presentations are legendary, as are his tirades, lies and put downs.

Intuition/ Sensing: No one can debate his sense of intuition with people, places, things and ideas. The word “intuition” is used in his book countless times for good reason.

Logic/ Ethics: He used his intelligence to collaborate with the people in the field of, computers, music, movies, T.V. film editing, etc. over his lifetime. Using any means necessary to get what he wanted. See Extraversion.
Those aren't the 4 main socionics dichotomies you're describing, it's sort of like a distorted version of MBTI. Logic (T) ≠ intelligence, Extratim/Introtim (E/I) ≠ outgoingness vs shyness. Rationallity/Irrationality ≠ Turning or leaving a dime, and a "sense of intuition about people" doesn't mean anything specific. You're criticising something (socionics) yet displaying you don't have a clue about it.

I'd suggest you go for an introduction in socionics, try Ricks site

And here you can begin to learn about the theory.

Last edited by Cyclops; 15/11/2011 at 08:57 PM.
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  #16  
Old 15/11/2011, 10:13 PM
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I believe that you should start with determining your own type using the sites you gave. It is clear you don’t want to discuss Mr. Jobs personality type but are attempting to argue, distort, accuse and belittle facts and information. This is another trademark of an ENTp and also one you have shown over and over in other posts with others, it was not by chance I offered it as your personality type. I would not be having this discussion with a true ENFj type. Lastly, my screen name is not taken by chance I have met Mr. Jobs in person and worked very closely with the company for years. If you do not have anything to add to this post of any value please find another, thank you.
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  #17  
Old 16/11/2011, 03:51 PM
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If you're so keen on discussing Steve Jobs type then why are you discussing mine and your perceived version of my personality? You should probably read the house rules cheers.
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  #18  
Old 16/11/2011, 06:23 PM
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**cough** ::::::::::::::::::
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  #19  
Old 16/11/2011, 10:14 PM
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Guys, focus on the topic!

Continuing to "stray" will result in user's post(s) being deleted or may even force the thread to be locked early which is not our intention! Thank you.

Last edited by Banter; 16/11/2011 at 10:15 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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  #20  
Old 16/11/2011, 10:27 PM
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I’ll give you five reasons:

1. I have typed Steve Jobs as an ENTp.
2. You have shown ENTp traits in this post and others.
3. You have typed Steve Jobs as an ENFj.
4. You have typed yourself as an ENFj.
5. Lastly, I believe those of us who cannot or do not recognize their own personality have difficulties determining users.
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