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Old 24/07/2010, 07:49 AM
psychdigg psychdigg is offline
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Default personality and somatotype

Although this chart is based on MBTI it may have some utility for Socionics. Body Type is a scientific classification method and should be determined by someone who knows how to do it.


I've also included a chart of some famous people I was able to somatotype based on their photographs on the internet.

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Old 24/07/2010, 08:22 PM
sjy sjy is offline
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strongly disagree.
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Old 24/07/2010, 08:32 PM
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^ What do you disagree with?
Personally, i'm not sure i even understand where all the "data" come from!
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Old 24/07/2010, 10:54 PM
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Sjy:

"strongly disagree".

I hope you have some follow up. Otherwise, you ought to preface your "strong" response with the qualifier - "In my opinion". Then maybe something should be mentioned about why your opinion should matter.
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Old 25/07/2010, 02:44 AM
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psychdigg:
Do you have any data to back up the patterns/correlations on the graphs? It's perhaps a ted strange that you just posted graphs w/no explanation - hence, the strong reaction from others, maybe...?
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Old 25/07/2010, 01:22 PM
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Hmmm. Psychdigg, can you explain the correlations between body type and psychological type that you have used here?

As I understand it, the three body types are meant to tie up with personality type, from wiki:

Quote:
Roughly the three corresponding personality types proposed by Sheldon are somewhat akin to Jung's categorization of thinking, feeling and sensing types. As such they correspond quite closely to popular stereotypes of the skinny nerd, the jolly fat man, the slow-witted tough guy. tough guy.
Which therefore would imply ESTj as a T type would be ectomorph and ESFj would be endomorph yet you have them at the pinnacle of mesomorphy. Perhaps you are associating extraversion with mesomorphy but then we have ESXP further away even though they are E and S...so not quite sure I understand. How have you worked out your chart?

Also not sure of your typings - Obama INTj? Cowell ESFp? Maybe could explain them, if just briefly even.

Quote:
Body Type is a scientific classification method and should be determined by someone who knows how to do it. who knows how to do it
Have you worked out body type using these methods? http://www.innerexplorations.com/psytext/waysto.htm

Which ones?

Last edited by Cyclops; 25/07/2010 at 01:23 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 25/07/2010, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psychdigg View Post
Sjy:

"strongly disagree".

I hope you have some follow up. Otherwise, you ought to preface your "strong" response with the qualifier - "In my opinion". Then maybe something should be mentioned about why your opinion should matter.
Disagreement implies opinion not fact.

And I disagree with everything in your chart. I disagree with the premise of body type with personality type, I disagree with a lot of the typings, and I disagree with posting it, as an MBTI-based thing, in a socionics forum.

[Removed]

Last edited by sjy; 25/07/2010 at 01:38 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 25/07/2010, 06:33 PM
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Keep it civil people
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Old 25/07/2010, 07:45 PM
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Well said, Cyclops.

sjy, I don't think there's anything wrong with exploring the possibility. It's not like psychdigg stated it as a hard and fast rule for socionics or anything. And personally, I find the idea rather interesting.

Psychdigg, do you have any examples of people you know personally, (and whose types you know) that seem to fit well with this chart?
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Old 25/07/2010, 08:08 PM
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Yeah, like Kitty said, i wouldn't entirely exclude the possibility of correlation, even if it seems rather difficult (if at all possible) to exclude all other variables that influence body type.

If one thinks about it though, there's some truth to VI, isn't there?

Data please, lol
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Old 25/07/2010, 11:22 PM
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Cyclops:

Innerexploration is an excellent web-site if a person wants to understand the issues with somatotype. The author of that web-site died in 2009 but his widow keeps it up. Two of his books are available on line at his site - totally free.

I presumed that people who have studied some psychology would be familiar with W.H. Sheldon's somatotyping.

I have worked with Sheldon's final objective method (Published 1968) and have found it uncanny in its ability to predict personality no matter what system you use. None of the paper and pencil tests are completely reliable and they all lack scientific validity. They try to describe things like intuition, thinking, feeling but they don't get into the biological basis of intuition, thinking, feeling etc.

It is one thing to describe and still another thing to explain.

Sheldon’s somatotype theory both identifies and measures the big systems of the human body. He spent a lifetime looking directly at what is hiding in plain sight. He classifies the very thing we overlook and take for granted - the human body. Look at the connection endomorphy, mesomorphy and ectomorphy have with the big functions of a living organism.
Endomorphy = Visceral System. An animal needs to eat. There is no life at all without the “big” tube (intestines). Living things must have a metabolism or there is nothing.

Mesomorphy = Muscular System. An animal needs to move. It needs to move toward food and away from danger.

Ectomorphy = Nervous System. An animal needs coordinated and rapid movement to capture food and escape danger. The nervous system is an emergency system. It records routines and strategies that can be quickly initiated when needed. It deals with things that suddenly come into view.

It shouldn’t be too hard to imagine that if a person is structured with an emphasis on the gut, this will have the effect of conditioning a person to be interested in food, and the comfort of feeling full and a desire to arrange a comfortable and relaxing environment conducive to carrying out the work of digestion. If a person is structured with a strong muscular body, wouldn’t you expect that those muscles would want to move and facilitate activity and gain proficiency at dominating their world? A stretched out, lean ectomorph, with a high surface to volume ratio could be expected to be vigilant about protecting that boundary/surface area.



Although Sheldon was looking for a fourth factor he never figured it out. My contribution to somatotyping is that the fourth factor is the degree of balance between the 3 systems. So in addition to 1. Visceral (ednomorphy) 2.Muscular (mesomorphy) 3. Nervous (ectomorphy) you have the middle or balance part that makes the organism search for orientation.


People are 1. Feelers (endomorphs) 2. Doers (mesomorphs) 3. Thinkers (ectomorphs) 4. Seers (orientation/centrimorphs)


I have been working with this for 30 years. It has proven itself in resolving the X problems with the faulty dichotomous Jungian structure. So many people have concerns with being T one time and F the next time they take the test. Knowing where you are on the somatotype chart can give insight that solves that problem.
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Old 26/07/2010, 02:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kittykat View Post
Well said, Cyclops.

sjy, I don't think there's anything wrong with exploring the possibility. It's not like psychdigg stated it as a hard and fast rule for socionics or anything. And personally, I find the idea rather interesting.

Psychdigg, do you have any examples of people you know personally, (and whose types you know) that seem to fit well with this chart?
Quote:
Originally Posted by felafel View Post
Yeah, like Kitty said, i wouldn't entirely exclude the possibility of correlation, even if it seems rather difficult (if at all possible) to exclude all other variables that influence body type.

If one thinks about it though, there's some truth to VI, isn't there?

Data please, lol

It's fine to consider the possibility of body types correlating with sociotype, but to approach this question, one must start with accurate typings and accurate categorization of body types. Otherwise we are just wasting time and confusing ourselves and anyone else who consults this forum.

I think what bothers me the most is whenever someone implies the premise that MBTI type can be translated to sociotype. Why? because a newbie trying to explore socionics is going to read it and assume that, and then get totally confused and either give up on socionics altogether, or perpetuate an incomplete and erronous understanding of socionics. How is socionics supposed to be more widely accepted in the mainstream intellectual sphere when this is going on??
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Old 26/07/2010, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psychdigg View Post

Although Sheldon was looking for a fourth factor he never figured it out. My contribution to somatotyping is that the fourth factor is the degree of balance between the 3 systems. So in addition to 1. Visceral (ednomorphy) 2.Muscular (mesomorphy) 3. Nervous (ectomorphy) you have the middle or balance part that makes the organism search for orientation.


People are 1. Feelers (endomorphs) 2. Doers (mesomorphs) 3. Thinkers (ectomorphs) 4. Seers (orientation/centrimorphs)
I'm an endomorph-mesomorph yet I know I'm a thinker. I'm pretty weak on the feeling and doing. So the system fails for me.

I'm highly skeptical that people of all the same body type have similar personalities. I've known some extreme ectomorphs, for example and they are nothing alike. One was an ENTp, one was an ISTj, one an INFj.

I do think there may be something to VI but I see it more on the lines of facial expressions and body movements.
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Old 26/07/2010, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwhitesquare View Post
I'm an endomorph-mesomorph yet I know I'm a thinker. I'm pretty weak on the feeling and doing. So the system fails for me.

I'm highly skeptical that people of all the same body type have similar personalities. I've known some extreme ectomorphs, for example and they are nothing alike. One was an ENTp, one was an ISTj, one an INFj.

I do think there may be something to VI but I see it more on the lines of facial expressions and body movements.
I concur. I had a friend who was clearly ectomorpous and clearly MBTI ISFJ. According to the figure, an ISFJ must be clearly endomorphous. Anyway no proof of anything from the correlation at all has been posted.
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Old 26/07/2010, 05:10 PM
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I was going to post a response evaluating the idea of somatotype in this thread but I realized that, if my post is simply going to be deleted for containing an opinion, I don't want to post it at all.
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Old 26/07/2010, 06:47 PM
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Self evaluations of somatotype are not very acccurate. And the written quiz that some people take on somatotype is unreliable. There are close to 1800 combinations of endo, meso, ecto when you consider it is a scale of 7 in half steps. 1.0-1.5-2.0-2.5 etc.

A person could be endormophic and ectomorphic at the same time. for example a 6,2,5.5 would be 6 endo 2 meso and 5.5 ecto.

In a case like that, a person would be an ectomorphic endomorph and have qualities of both. When two components are fairly close there may be a tendency for the secondary to seem like the dominant.

It is also possible for trauma or other extreme life situations to shift a person. But if a persons perceived type is at odds with their body-type it should be given serious consideration.
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“For the first time the old insights and intuitions about the different kinds of human beings have been clarified and put on a firmly objective and measurable basis.”

___“Aldous Huxley/ A Biography” Sybille Bedford, 1974


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Old 26/07/2010, 08:02 PM
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Psychdigg:
seems to me your hypothesis re. body type implies type is inborn seeing as you present an almost solid correlation between one's type and their somatotype . Is that correct or did I misunderstand you? If yes, I'd appreciate you sharing how you came to that conclusion.

Also, i'm assuming you controlled for all other variables that can influence one's body type. How did you do that and how did you decide what these other variables extraneous to type are? Thanks.

SJY:
point taken, but a little confused as to why you'd have to stack up 2 other peoples' posts to make that point...
Anyway, I don't think i've taken it upon myself to be a guardian of a "correct" way of exploring socionics, nor is it my agenda to make socionics a serious intellectual pursuit within the academia or w/e. Reason being: i'm not qualified for that . If people will see a use to Socionics they'll study it, if not they won't. Only thing I, or anyone else for that matter, can do is to not be misleading on purpose and qualify opinions whenever necessary. Oh, that, and leave the door open for possibilites/exlporation
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Old 26/07/2010, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itinerant_stapler71 View Post
I was going to post a response evaluating the idea of somatotype in this thread but I realized that, if my post is simply going to be deleted for containing an opinion, I don't want to post it at all.
Posts aren't deleted simply because they contain an opinion. Posts are deleted because their content is offensive or they're obvious trolls. More information here
Thanks.
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Old 26/07/2010, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banter View Post
Posts aren't deleted simply because they contain an opinion. Posts are deleted because their content is offensive or they're obvious trolls. More information here
Thanks.
In my opinion and observation of the way this forum has been moderated, this is not true and therefore I withhold my posts as I see fit.
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Old 26/07/2010, 09:54 PM
sjy sjy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felafel View Post
SJY:
point taken, but a little confused as to why you'd have to stack up 2 other peoples' posts to make that point...
Anyway, I don't think i've taken it upon myself to be a guardian of a "correct" way of exploring socionics, nor is it my agenda to make socionics a serious intellectual pursuit within the academia or w/e. Reason being: i'm not qualified for that . If people will see a use to Socionics they'll study it, if not they won't. Only thing I, or anyone else for that matter, can do is to not be misleading on purpose and qualify opinions whenever necessary. Oh, that, and leave the door open for possibilites/exlporation
cheers
Oh, no i was just quoting you two because you were both asking me for my reasons for saying what i said. Not because i was criticizing what you'd said. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banter View Post
Posts aren't deleted simply because they contain an opinion. Posts are deleted because their content is offensive or they're obvious trolls. More information here
Thanks.
Which can be a highly subjective judgement

I never said anything offensive, nor am I trolling, so i dont understand why part of my earlier post was removed. However, it wasn't that important so i'll let it rest.

I sort of agree with itinerant stapler here. I see the advantages of the heavy censorship on this forum, and i appreciate the effects of having a largely mature discussion here that is fully socionics focused, but if we can't have a normal discussion (albeit a little heated) of socionics without having our posts lopped in half and chopped up, what's the point of having the forum? The moderators are taking a good thing a little TOO far.

Last edited by sjy; 26/07/2010 at 09:54 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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