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  #1  
Old 15/04/2011, 10:25 AM
Syndil Syndil is offline
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Default Newbie INTp, head about to explode, help!

Hello everyone. I've just started learning about socionics, and I could use some direction. I first learned about the subject when a friend of mine on Facebook posted their Keirsey temperament type. It immediately grabbed my interest, so I went to the Keirsey site (they had linked to it) and took the test to see what it could say about me. The Keirsey site only tells you the middle two letters, which for me were NT. Reading the descriptions on the Keirsey site, I assumed I was INTP.

I then looked for a test that would fill in the missing letters. I found a Jung typology test at humanmetrics.com and took that one, and it came back INTP, like I expected. And, just to be certain, as I recognized that the danger in these tests is often that people answer questions in a manner that reflects how they wish they were instead of how they actually are, I went back and double-checked each answer, asking myself: "Is this really how I am?" I changed a handful of answers, and it again came back INTP, but with a higher percentage on P this time.

Then I did some more browsing, read everything I could read at the Keirsey site--which I found absolutely fascinating, especially the part on complimentary relationship types--and eventually wound up here, at socionics.com. Again, I took the tests. Started with the simple 4-question test--INTp. Took the TurboXL test--INTp. Felt very good that everything jived.

Then I started reading in the forums... and my head exploded. I need to sort out this whole Keirsey/Jung/MBTT thing that has apparently already been beaten to death in the forums for myself. Can anyone point me to one article or thread that sums up the whole mess?

The part that really has me confused is the difference in what Keirsey says are compatible relationship types and what this site says are compatible types. From everything I have read at the Keirsey site (and subsequently measured against my own experience), I am much more inclined to agree with Keirsey.

BTW I lol'd at the "INTp uncovered" description and will try my hardest not to be that guy.
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Old 15/04/2011, 05:02 PM
Syndil Syndil is offline
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Nevermind, I have found the information I was looking for. However, I am still unconvinced that duality is the best relationship type. For instance, as an INTp, I think an ESFp would drive me nuts. I see that that has actually already been discussed in the forums from an ESFp's point of view.

http://www.socionics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1739

Keirsey suggests pairing rationals with idealists, or artisans with guardians, and ideally, opposites on all but the S or N. However, I am quite certain my ideal partner would be an INFj, as opposed to an ENFj.

An INFj does not need verbal reassurances of love (very much unlike an ESFp) which is perfect, since I do not give them.

An INFj is very empathetic to their partner's emotions, which is perfect, because I don't show them.

An INFj likes to feel useful and cannot refuse a task if asked, which is perfect, because I am lazy and unorganized, and need someone to take care of the little details in life for me.

An INFj needs compliments, but only if they feel they are very sincere. Again, perfect, because I give compliments only out of sincerity.

I wonder if the previously-mentioned ESFp would similarly be most content with an ESTj.

Of course, as an INTp, my thoughts are never set in stone, and I welcome feedback or critiques. Since I am a newbie to this, I realize that I may have made a very fundamental error in my thought process without knowing it.
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Old 15/04/2011, 07:38 PM
Cyclops Cyclops is offline
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Personality, laziness, confidence, helpfulness etc isn't type related.

IMO you'd be better to study biological differences such as gender, for one thing, than try to caveat yourself by psychological type.
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Old 15/04/2011, 08:30 PM
Syndil Syndil is offline
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Am I to take it from your response then, that the information at http://www.socioniko.net/en/1.1.types/index.html is considered suspect? I found it to be much more detailed and in-depth than the type descriptions found on this site.
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Old 16/04/2011, 08:20 PM
I of the Potato I of the Potato is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Syndil View Post
Nevermind, I have found the information I was looking for. However, I am still unconvinced that duality is the best relationship type. For instance, as an INTp, I think an ESFp would drive me nuts. I see that that has actually already been discussed in the forums from an ESFp's point of view.

http://www.socionics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1739

Keirsey suggests pairing rationals with idealists, or artisans with guardians, and ideally, opposites on all but the S or N. However, I am quite certain my ideal partner would be an INFj, as opposed to an ENFj.

An INFj does not need verbal reassurances of love (very much unlike an ESFp) which is perfect, since I do not give them.

An INFj is very empathetic to their partner's emotions, which is perfect, because I don't show them.

An INFj likes to feel useful and cannot refuse a task if asked, which is perfect, because I am lazy and unorganized, and need someone to take care of the little details in life for me.

An INFj needs compliments, but only if they feel they are very sincere. Again, perfect, because I give compliments only out of sincerity.

I wonder if the previously-mentioned ESFp would similarly be most content with an ESTj.

Of course, as an INTp, my thoughts are never set in stone, and I welcome feedback or critiques. Since I am a newbie to this, I realize that I may have made a very fundamental error in my thought process without knowing it.

So you basically want someone to do all your housework and you don't want to learn how to grow up and learn to deal with your weaknesses?

Can I suggest a thai bride?
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Old 16/04/2011, 09:03 PM
Cyclops Cyclops is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I of the Potato View Post
So you basically want someone to do all your housework and you don't want to learn how to grow up and learn to deal with your weaknesses?

Can I suggest a thai bride?
He claims to be 35 :shrug:
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  #7  
Old 17/04/2011, 07:38 AM
Kittykat Kittykat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Syndil View Post

An INFj does not need verbal reassurances of love (very much unlike an ESFp) which is perfect, since I do not give them.
I think that has more to do with love languages: http://www.5lovelanguages.com/learn-...ove-languages/
From an INFj perspective, we will want to have some verbal reassurance, but not just "I love you, you're so amazing, blah blah blah". . . something more along the lines of "I love you because you do thus and such that is unique to you; in this way you make a difference that no one else can."

Quote:
An INFj likes to feel useful and cannot refuse a task if asked, which is perfect, because I am lazy and unorganized, and need someone to take care of the little details in life for me.
It is true, an INFj will have a hard time saying no to your requests. However, if they are with someone like you, they will begin to feel used, as though they are only loved for their ability to cook and clean and be your slave. That's so heartening, isn't it?

Quote:
An INFj needs compliments, but only if they feel they are very sincere. Again, perfect, because I give compliments only out of sincerity.
Fair enough, but what was that you were saying about INFj's *not* needing verbal reassurance?


I'd like to point out things that would probably be beneficial from an ESFp-INTp relationship, at least for how it would benefit you:
1. Instead of doing everything for you (thus encouraging your lazy lifestyle), the ESFp will motivate you to get up and do things--and they'll do it alongside you, so you won't feel like you have to do everything yourself. Getting you in the habit of doing stuff and being responsible for yourself is probably better for your personal development than encouraging your laziness.
2. The ESFp will be protective of the relationship and sensitive to your feelings, but not to the extent where you feel smothered.
3. The ESFp will likely enjoy having competitive games with you, which you will find very satisfying. The INFj, on the other hand, is not as likely to think that that would be fun.
See this page http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=11941 and scroll down to the "Critic and Politician" description.

One last thing--for you, an INFj might be a nice person to have around; she'd be unlikely to put much stress on you, since you would be the benefactor, putting you in the more advantageous position of the relationship. However, she would eventually feel more and more stressed: she would want you to stop being lazy and help her out sometimes, but she would feel completely powerless in getting you to do so. She would probably get depressed because of this, as well as the fact that she wouldn't feel loved for her true self, but only her ability to be a housemaid. Also, while she likely wouldn't have any negative effects on you, you would ultimately feel somewhat unfulfilled, since she lacks the Se that you so very much need.
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  #8  
Old 18/04/2011, 12:56 PM
Syndil Syndil is offline
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Excellent reply, Kittykat. Exactly the sort of insight I was looking for. Incidentally, you described pretty much to a "T" the relationship I have with my partner. Except that we are both aware of our shortcomings in regards to the other's needs, and are able to modify our behavior to keep things running smoothly. However it wasn't always so smooth. At times she would indeed feel that I was using her, and I would feel smothered. So kudos on that.

But while it may not be the easiest relationship to step into, it works quite well when both parties are understanding. Of course that probably holds true for any combination. However, I still feel I would have a hard time finding a sense of closeness with anyone other than an INFj. Based on personal experience, I'm reasonably confident that everyone I have been attracted to has indeed been an INFj, with only one exception: Another INTp. That was doomed to failure from the beginning, and we both knew it. We were too alike. We had conversations that were simultaneously fascinating and boring. Fascinating to find someone that thought about the same things we did, but boring in that we agreed on everything. Eventually it got to the point where there really was no point in talking about anything. And if we had stayed together we would have lived in absolute squalor.

With the INFj/INTp relationship I apparently have going on now (I have not asked her to test her type--she would find it offensive), as long as we both avoid behaviors that are known to annoy each other, we get along ridiculously well. I make an effort to keep certain chores done (she still does most of the work, and is happy to do so), she gives me my space--most of the time (I can't be too selfish in that regard). And if we do happen to let something slip, it's automatically forgiven before it even happens, because we know what makes each other tick. But more than that, we knew we would get along ridiculously well from the moment we met. It's like we started behaving as an old married couple from the beginning.

Now INTp to ESFp... To me that just seems like it would have to be a forced relationship in the beginning, perhaps very slow to mature, with either party likely to find little worth fighting for to preserve it. The thread a couple places down called "ESFp-INTp dualization" seems to bolster that argument, and I can see myself not wanting to put up with that thread's author any more than she apparently wants to tolerate an INTp.

All of this cumulatively makes me wonder if perhaps Keirsey was right about the complimentary relationship types, as opposed to the duality that seems to be held with high esteem here. After all, everyone agrees that for any relationship to work, there has to be some sort of mutual attraction. And I really don't think I've ever been attracted to an ESFp, nor would I be attracted to an S-anything. Keirsey says we should look for someone who matches N/S with ourselves, then the rest opposite from ourselves (although I'd say the I/E is not so important).

I'm not trying to come out and say anything is definitely wrong or right. Just thinking out loud, mostly.
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