Go Back   Socionics Forums > Ramble Mumble

Ramble Mumble Anything goes, but please make an effort to stay positive and keep it socionics related.


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 16/02/2010, 03:57 AM
ENTroP ENTroP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 112
Default My Understanding of the Functions

This may or may not relate to the socion, but these are the functions in the order I think I use them along with my understanding of them, please set me straight if I'm wrong

1)
1. I see the potential in things, and understand how they function. Examples of this are how I intuitively understand the functions of cell processes in my biology classes. I have a very quick and witty sense of humor, and like puns and am really good at saying things backwards and other weird stuff like that. My buddy LII often asks me, "How does your brain work, dude?!" (after laughing) often when I make goofy jokes.

2)
I like to know the practical application of my understandings of things, as soon as possible, and don't like unrealized or unrealizable ideas. I like abstract theorizing inasmuch as it has practical applications. I also understand how things relate together, and tend to fulfill a coordinating role in class and groups that I am a member of.

3) I like to systematize and file away knowledge and understand how the ideas connect. I enjoy learning about living systems, and how chemistry and physics describes the functioning of said systems. I am not as strong at this as I would like, as I am not good at coming up with fresh conclusions based on my internal understanding of things.

I gotta run, will write up the rest later
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 16/02/2010, 05:24 PM
ENTroP ENTroP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 112
Default

*edit: wrong as to their meanings.

anyways to continue:

4)
While I do not consider feelings to be a correct way to structure one's activities, beliefs, or behaviors, I do understand that others have them and try to accomodate those around me to the best of my ability, inasmuch as it does not harm me or any other party, and their requests and needs make sense. I do not like overemotional displays, and think that over subjective analyses of situations are detrimental and in the end inefficient.

5)
I like to know what is going on around me, although I do have a tendency to space out, or be deep in thought. I am not good with directions, my clothing is not fashionable, and I rely on others for fashion judgements. I do however understand how my actions impact my relations with others and increase or decrease my standing with them (this is extroverted sensing related, or Fe?).

6)
I like Si the most in other people, particularly love interests. I find it immensely attractive. I get an almost magical vibe from Si types (particularly SEI) I like how in tune they are with beauty, pattern, color, smells and sounds. Physical sensitivity is something that is a big turn on (TMI?) for me. I, however, am not in tune with these things, and do not personally use this function much.

7)
I do not really understand this function at all. Is it when you mull things over for a long time and reach a conclusion? I see interconnectedness between disparate but related (albeit indirectly) things, but I consider this to be a Ti thing.(?)

8)

I do not like Fi at all. I think that it leads to selfishness, and family destroying bouts of "self discovery". I attribute temper tantrums, delusional behavior, and lack of logic to this function. I use it in the sense that I have a sense of self, but I do not use it as a decision making function at all, except in very trivial and minor things.

K, thx very much!

Last edited by ENTroP; 16/02/2010 at 05:29 PM. Reason: typo
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 17/02/2010, 12:39 AM
Suzzy's Avatar
Suzzy Suzzy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 137
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ENTroP View Post
8)

I do not like Fi at all. I think that it leads to selfishness, and family destroying bouts of "self discovery". I attribute temper tantrums, delusional behavior, and lack of logic to this function. I use it in the sense that I have a sense of self, but I do not use it as a decision making function at all, except in very trivial and minor things.
Hi ENTroP, when I think of introverted feeling I actually think of unselfishness. Because to me it's about understanding your own feelings so that you can help others. It's empathy, being able to put yourself in another persons shoes. To feel thier happiness with them and to feel their pain with them. It's about understanding how everything affects another person. What impact things can or will have upon their lives. It's about wanting to minimize any damage that you yourself can cause to another or yourself. Feelings are kept quiet inside until the right moment or the right person comes along. To me introverted feeling can cause long tem damage to the user though as everybody eventually has their limits as to what they will put up with/allow to occur etc and a sudden halt or off loading of baggage can occur.

Whereas to me extraverted feeling is like living with a drama queen. Everything is a drama. The need to be on centrestage often. It's all about oneself. And dramas will be created to move the focus back to oneself when not enough attention is being given. I see extroverted feeling as a lot more selfish. To me extroverted feeling creates many problems and causes damage often, even if the user perhaps does not realize, which often they don't immediately. It is a constant cycle of dramas and fix ups.

Perhaps I'm wrong about all this - someone let me know if you think I am. But at this stage that's how I see it .
__________________
Lady of the knight
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 17/02/2010, 02:06 AM
mihai_m mihai_m is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 327
Default

@Suzzy: I agree with you in most part. I don't think that egoism/altruism are strictly related to these functions, eg imo ESFp's are pretty egoistic while ISFp's are altruistic. But it is a great difference, indeed.

Most about Fi is relating to things/people, it's like a log of life. Fe is like "here and now", satisfaction.

For example Fe types need company (eg EIEs can't do anything without it, more or less) while Fi need attachment. I noticed that a separation is pretty hard for a Fe type, he/she finds very hard to separate from you but can forget you pretty quickly (needs another immediate attachment); a Fi type can separate easily, sometimes they need this because feel somehow suffocated/tired of interaction but once separated, they feel the need for reunion more and more.
Well just my observations...
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 17/02/2010, 05:49 AM
Kanerou's Avatar
Kanerou Kanerou is offline
Omnomnom
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,371
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzzy View Post
Hi ENTroP, when I think of introverted feeling I actually think of unselfishness. Because to me it's about understanding your own feelings so that you can help others. It's empathy, being able to put yourself in another persons shoes. To feel thier happiness with them and to feel their pain with them. It's about understanding how everything affects another person. What impact things can or will have upon their lives. It's about wanting to minimize any damage that you yourself can cause to another or yourself. Feelings are kept quiet inside until the right moment or the right person comes along. To me introverted feeling can cause long tem damage to the user though as everybody eventually has their limits as to what they will put up with/allow to occur etc and a sudden halt or off loading of baggage can occur.

Whereas to me extraverted feeling is like living with a drama queen. Everything is a drama. The need to be on centrestage often. It's all about oneself. And dramas will be created to move the focus back to oneself when not enough attention is being given. I see extroverted feeling as a lot more selfish. To me extroverted feeling creates many problems and causes damage often, even if the user perhaps does not realize, which often they don't immediately. It is a constant cycle of dramas and fix ups.

Perhaps I'm wrong about all this - someone let me know if you think I am. But at this stage that's how I see it .
It depends on perspective. Someone who doesn't value but does value is likely to see the former as wrong somehow, and vice versa. I also agree with mihai's statement about egoism and altruism not being related to those IM element. You can get selfless or selfish representatives of those types; it just depends. Ultimately, IM elements are neutral, and people choose to do with them what they will.
__________________
http://www.formspring.me/ryeneastraelis Ask away. Naturally, I reserve the right to ignore or delete questions.

Last edited by Kanerou; 17/02/2010 at 05:54 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 17/02/2010, 08:02 AM
Suzzy's Avatar
Suzzy Suzzy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 137
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mihai_m View Post
I don't think that egoism/altruism are strictly related to these functions, eg imo ESFp's are pretty egoistic while ISFp's are altruistic.
Good point .

Quote:
Originally Posted by mihai_m View Post
Most about Fi is relating to things/people, it's like a log of life. Fe is like "here and now", satisfaction.

For example Fe types need company (eg EIEs can't do anything without it, more or less) while Fi need attachment. I noticed that a separation is pretty hard for a Fe type, he/she finds very hard to separate from you but can forget you pretty quickly (needs another immediate attachment); a Fi type can separate easily, sometimes they need this because feel somehow suffocated/tired of interaction but once separated, they feel the need for reunion more and more.
Well just my observations...
Arrrhhhhh ... that description...maybe I am introverted feeling after all !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanerou View Post
It depends on perspective. Someone who doesn't value but does value is likely to see the former as wrong somehow, and vice versa.
Like I said aaarhhhh ...does that mean I am likely to be using ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanerou View Post
I also agree with mihai's statement about egoism and altruism not being related to those IM element. You can get selfless or selfish representatives of those types; it just depends. Ultimately, IM elements are neutral, and people choose to do with them what they will.
Another good point
__________________
Lady of the knight

Last edited by Suzzy; 17/02/2010 at 08:02 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 17/02/2010, 08:18 AM
Kanerou's Avatar
Kanerou Kanerou is offline
Omnomnom
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,371
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzzy View Post
Like I said aaarhhhh ...does that mean I am likely to be using ?
Judging sheerly from that one statement, it sounds like it. How the rest of it does or does not fit, I don't know.
__________________
http://www.formspring.me/ryeneastraelis Ask away. Naturally, I reserve the right to ignore or delete questions.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 17/02/2010, 01:48 PM
Cyclops Cyclops is offline
Gone on holiday...
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,284
Default

@ENTroP, if these definitions work for you in your day to day life, then seems no real reason not to use them.

I thought i'd comment on this one, seeing as everyone else is, join the crowd....

Quote:
Originally Posted by ENTroP
I do not like Fi at all. I think that it leads to selfishness, and family destroying bouts of "self discovery". I attribute temper tantrums, delusional behavior, and lack of logic to this function. I use it in the sense that I have a sense of self, but I do not use it as a decision making function at all, except in very trivial and minor things.
I attribute an inability to control oneself and a lack of patience for such things.

My personal opinon on Fi is that it is love and acceptance. I'm pretty sure it's not that in general, but, this is what I like about it.

I associate such things as familiarity with it, once the bond is made, it can't be taken down - sort of like a static logics, like Ti - the rule is made (the Ti formula) which is there to explain everything and last, same as how I see Fi - the interpersonal bond is made - like a static person formula, once it's there it's pretty much built to last, and at least takes a lot of time before it would be considered for revision.

I suppose the downside of that could be a static formation of personal hatred - however, this isn't something I see in normal people, as to hate takes energy and ultimately is self consuming.

This isn't my take on what Fi is from an all encompassing POV, but I can see where you are coming from, some Fi types are HIGHLY sensitive imo - but to me that's an issue which can be repaired and doesn't have to equal type, but some sensitivity is nice, but not hyper sensitivity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzzy View Post
Hi ENTroP, when I think of introverted feeling I actually think of unselfishness. Because to me it's about understanding your own feelings so that you can help others. It's empathy, being able to put yourself in another persons shoes. To feel thier happiness with them and to feel their pain with them. It's about understanding how everything affects another person. What impact things can or will have upon their lives. It's about wanting to minimize any damage that you yourself can cause to another or yourself. Feelings are kept quiet inside until the right moment or the right person comes along. To me introverted feeling can cause long tem damage to the user though as everybody eventually has their limits as to what they will put up with/allow to occur etc and a sudden halt or off loading of baggage can occur.
To an extent I think this is true.

I definately agree with the empathy thing. It seems to me that within socionic circles, some people attribute being Fi to rudeness or "coldness", which isn't true in real people. Fi types like to smile and be happy with the rest, and don't like to offend (things which some people also associate with Fe).

Quote:
Whereas to me extraverted feeling is like living with a drama queen. Everything is a drama. The need to be on centrestage often. It's all about oneself. And dramas will be created to move the focus back to oneself when not enough attention is being given. I see extroverted feeling as a lot more selfish. To me extroverted feeling creates many problems and causes damage often, even if the user perhaps does not realize, which often they don't immediately. It is a constant cycle of dramas and fix ups.

Perhaps I'm wrong about all this - someone let me know if you think I am. But at this stage that's how I see it .
Interesting.

It's interesting to me how time and circumstance and even age can affect things. In a way I agree with what you are saying about Fe relationships, perhaps it is just I, but it sounds like something which requires a lot of energy - it is more a "youthful" thing, as we get older I think people have less energy/time/too much responsibilities to have so many dynamic ups and downs with each other. It can be like the F dichotomies bleed into one perhaps?

@suzzy & mihai_m:

Fe types do seem to forget easier, I like the old faithful, ie someone I haven't seen for ages, I just know that when I see them again everything is fine as the bond is there. Proper friendship:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mihai_m
For example Fe types need company (eg EIEs can't do anything without it, more or less) while Fi need attachment. I noticed that a separation is pretty hard for a Fe type, he/she finds very hard to separate from you but can forget you pretty quickly (needs another immediate attachment); a Fi type can separate easily, sometimes they need this because feel somehow suffocated/tired of interaction but once separated, they feel the need for reunion more and more.
This is to certain degree true ime as well, however, I think it is natural for ALL human beings to form an attachment to others, so I think Fe types can like the old faithful too.

It's this sort of stuff which makes me a little reticent at times of splitting the functions straight down the middle, in doing so the descriptions seem too vague, or too defining (ie it moves into behavioural characteristics that can encroach on other functions).

What you are saying again sounds like an ethical logical type of thing - which makes sense as it is a judging function of ethics. Take for instance a Te type, they may not want to let go of a certain details of facts, but once they do they quickly adapt and adopt the new facts of the situation and are happy with that, so I suppose it's the same thing in a different disguise.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 17/02/2010, 03:38 PM
mihai_m mihai_m is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 327
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzzy View Post
Like I said aaarhhhh ...does that mean I am likely to be using ?
This is what I think, yes, I don't take as an offence or something critiques on Fe because they are justified when Fi types talk about it, it's something absolutely normal imo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
This is to certain degree true ime as well, however, I think it is natural for ALL human beings to form an attachment to others, so I think Fe types can like the old faithful too.

It's this sort of stuff which makes me a little reticent at times of splitting the functions straight down the middle, in doing so the descriptions seem too vague, or too defining (ie it moves into behavioural characteristics that can encroach on other functions).

What you are saying again sounds like an ethical logical type of thing - which makes sense as it is a judging function of ethics. Take for instance a Te type, they may not want to let go of a certain details of facts, but once they do they quickly adapt and adopt the new facts of the situation and are happy with that, so I suppose it's the same thing in a different disguise.
Well you know I personally don't like to remain attached. When something lags I prefer to quit it that stay in uncertainty, or something.

Here's an example: me and my ENFp ex were considering each other egoistic:
- she considered me egoistic because I had "change ideas" eg proposing to leave parents and friends for a bright future, etc.
- I considered her egoistic because she would not accept anything which was not part of what I called to be her habit - live her usual life without changes and relocation, etc.

I'm not a Fe type although Fe valuer, I have the constant feeling that I'm stuck in all sort of relationships and obligations and I can't move forward. Nostalgy overwhelms me from time to time, but it's like a passion to meet old friends and family members, but I don't feel guilty of leaving them or something.

Last edited by mihai_m; 17/02/2010 at 03:38 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 17/02/2010, 05:35 PM
ENTroP ENTroP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 112
Default

It seems my Fi and Fe definitions were mixed up? I figured Fe= understanding and interacting with the emotions of opthers, Fi= Being in touch with one's own emotions?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 17/02/2010, 05:40 PM
Kanerou's Avatar
Kanerou Kanerou is offline
Omnomnom
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,371
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ENTroP View Post
It seems my Fi and Fe definitions were mixed up? I figured Fe= understanding and interacting with the emotions of opthers, Fi= Being in touch with one's own emotions?
It looks like you have Fe right; it has to do with recognizing and influencing others' moods. Fi has to do with recognizing and influencing interpersonal bonds. That's an overly simplistic definition, especially for Fi, but I'm not really sure how to fit in the "morals" concept.
__________________
http://www.formspring.me/ryeneastraelis Ask away. Naturally, I reserve the right to ignore or delete questions.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 18/02/2010, 12:07 AM
ENTroP ENTroP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 112
Default

Hmmm, ok, thank you for clarifying.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 18/02/2010, 07:12 PM
YOUcome.ME's Avatar
YOUcome.ME YOUcome.ME is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ENTroP View Post
4)
While I do not consider feelings to be a correct way to structure one's activities, beliefs, or behaviors, I do understand that others have them and try to accomodate those around me to the best of my ability, inasmuch as it does not harm me or any other party, and their requests and needs make sense. I do not like overemotional displays, and think that over subjective analyses of situations are detrimental and in the end inefficient.
So, let me mention that such aspect of information treatment as ethics of emotions stays for our emotions. Than, different types have this aspect in different positions of Model A resulting in different role of this aspect. Speaking about ENTp, one can say that it lies in the position of 6th function called activation function. It means that good emotions inspire, activate, motivate ENTp for doing something. It is like car ignition.

Do you have this? Imagine you propose something and the responder accepted it calmly. I think no wish will raise to continue this deal. Or just the opposite. The person responded expressing his or her positive emotions, I think, in this way you will be inspired. And it is cool to get emotions from others! lies in subconsciousness. It is difficult to generate emotions by oneself.
__________________
Happiness is when you are understood!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 18/02/2010, 07:26 PM
ENTroP ENTroP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 112
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by YOUcome.ME View Post
So, let me mention that such aspect of information treatment as ethics of emotions stays for our emotions. Than, different types have this aspect in different positions of Model A resulting in different role of this aspect. Speaking about ENTp, one can say that it lies in the position of 6th function called activation function. It means that good emotions inspire, activate, motivate ENTp for doing something. It is like car ignition.

Do you have this? Imagine you propose something and the responder accepted it calmly. I think no wish will raise to continue this deal. Or just the opposite. The person responded expressing his or her positive emotions, I think, in this way you will be inspired. And it is cool to get emotions from others! lies in subconsciousness. It is difficult to generate emotions by oneself.
I think that sounds about accurate, in terms of activation. Thank you muchly!

The positioning of functions is qualitative, not quantitative right? I listed my functions quantitatively (as I see them).
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 18/02/2010, 07:56 PM
Cyclops Cyclops is offline
Gone on holiday...
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,284
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by YOUcome.ME View Post
So, let me mention that such aspect of information treatment as ethics of emotions stays for our emotions. Than, different types have this aspect in different positions of Model A resulting in different role of this aspect. Speaking about ENTp, one can say that it lies in the position of 6th function called activation function. It means that good emotions inspire, activate, motivate ENTp for doing something. It is like car ignition.

Do you have this? Imagine you propose something and the responder accepted it calmly. I think no wish will raise to continue this deal. Or just the opposite. The person responded expressing his or her positive emotions, I think, in this way you will be inspired. And it is cool to get emotions from others! lies in subconsciousness. It is difficult to generate emotions by oneself.
At the risk of sounding anally pedantic, any person is likely to respond positively to a positive encouragement.

If an ESFj responds with positive emotions to something I suggest, then I know it's a good thing in their view. I suppose displaying positive emotions is something every type does, but every type displays them in slightly different ways.

As a crude example, if I show encouragement, I may raise my voice a little higher and go, "yeah, that's good". So although I can understand what you say, maybe it is prudent to consider everyone uses some degree of what is classed as "Fe", but I think it's difficult to explain the differences properly over an internet format, given the nature of the personality combined with the function preference, it's difficult to be succinct for typing by that alone perhaps.

2 cents fwiw.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 18/02/2010, 08:01 PM
ENTroP ENTroP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 112
Default

I wouldn't be bothered by a more in depth assessment of the function

But, yea, you raise a really good point...

What would the difference be between a generic positive response, and an "activation"? <-- (meant as question btw)
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 25/02/2010, 03:07 PM
Kittykat Kittykat is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 155
Default

Hm, maybe I can help a little bit here.
If someone asks me if I think something is a good idea or if I'd like to do something, my "positive response" as an ENFp is usually, "Sure, that sounds good." Maybe a little nod of my head or a small smile or something.
An ESFj I know, on the other hand, would say something more along the lines of "Wow!! That is a really great idea!! I can't believe you thought of that!! When can we make it happen?" And usually this is paired with a widening of the eyes and large hand gestures, lol.

Hope it helps.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 26/02/2010, 05:44 PM
ENTroP ENTroP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 112
Default

Interesting, strong positive responses like that do fire me up, haha. But don't they do that for everyone?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 26/02/2010, 06:15 PM
Kanerou's Avatar
Kanerou Kanerou is offline
Omnomnom
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,371
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ENTroP View Post
Interesting, strong positive responses like that do fire me up, haha. But don't they do that for everyone?
I daresay it depends on how strong those positive responses are.
__________________
http://www.formspring.me/ryeneastraelis Ask away. Naturally, I reserve the right to ignore or delete questions.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01/03/2010, 05:09 AM
ENTroP ENTroP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 112
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yury View Post
EFJs are masters of ritual declarations, whether they're cultivating a friend, reassuring a partner, or making children feel special and important. They buy small gifts that echo important conversations, display mementos of happy occasions, create family traditions, and make time for events that symbolize commitment to the ideal, even if everyday interactions tend to fall short of it.
I found that part particularly helpful in understanding that function better.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2007 SOCIONICS.COM