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Old 03/02/2010, 05:13 PM
Cyclops Cyclops is offline
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Default Questions about VI

Has anyone encountered identical twins with different types?

Of those i've met, they have the same type. Unless i'm mistaken, it would stand to reason that all identical twins would have the same type since they VI the same way.

I've read up on identical twins seperated at birth, and here is a common thing that i've found:

Identical twins re-unite after 35 years

From which:

Quote:
"It's not just our taste in music or books; it goes beyond that. In her, I see the same basic personality. And yet, eventually we had to realise that we're different people with different life histories."
So it seems that even other experiences support that identical twins have the same basic personality. Indeed, scientific studies support there similarity of personality, dress sense, even similar handwriting, despite different upbringings.

However, one thing that interests me, and I think it's sort of related, is that it's a scientific fact that identical twins can have different sexual preferences, ie gay or straight.

Recent consensus on this:

Science of sexual orientation

From which:

Quote:
There are many more questions at this point than answers, but the scientists 60 Minutes spoke to are increasingly convinced that genes, hormones, or both that something is happening to determine sexual orientation before birth.
It occurs to me that type can be affected in the same manner, that is, within the womb the identical twins can be exposed to different hormones despite having the same genetics, affecting their sexuality before they are born.

As I understand it, and I may be wrong, SG has some interest in Grof's work, which is related to child development within the womb, and he perhaps sees that type to form before birth. (?)

But, if not, that aside, sexual orientation can be different with identical twins, so perhaps type can be also.

So I am therefore interested in:

1. Can identical twins have different types?
2. And if so, what does this mean for VI, as they would look identical?
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  #2  
Old 03/02/2010, 06:16 PM
stanprollyright's Avatar
stanprollyright stanprollyright is offline
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The sexual preference article is about fraternal twins, not identical twins. This throws off your whole corollary, as we have yet to prove that two people of the same DNA can be different in type or sexual orientation.

I'm not any sort of VI expert, but one thing I think is misunderstood is that VI is based solely on physical features (body type, facial structure, etc.). I see VI in a much more contextual light. I think facial expressions, clothes, hairstyles, gestures, posture, etc. are much more informative. For example, an Fe type is going to have very large and exaggerated facial expressions, while an Fe super ego will have very subdued expressions. Similarly, a sensing type might seem more alert, extraverts will seem higher energy. Humans are full of subtle facial and bodily cues that tell you a lot about them if you know what you're looking for and how to put it in context.
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Old 03/02/2010, 07:46 PM
Cyclops Cyclops is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanprollyright View Post
The sexual preference article is about fraternal twins, not identical twins. This throws off your whole corollary, as we have yet to prove that two people of the same DNA can be different in type or sexual orientation.
Where does it say it's about fraternal twins?

Quote from article:
Quote:

60 Minutes found identical twins Steve and Greg Lofts in New York. They had the same upbringing, have the same DNA — and yet Greg is gay and Steve is straight.
Another article:

Biological determination of sexuality

Quote:
A second line of evidence concerning the biology of sexual orientation comes from genetic studies. In studies on male and female homosexuals who have twins, Northwestern's Bailey and his associates found clear evidence for genetic transmission. In a study on gay men, for example, 52 percent of their identical twins, 22 percent of their fraternal twins of the same sex, and only 11 percent of their adopted brothers were also gay (J.M. Bailey, R.C. Pillard, Archives of General Psychiatry, 48:1089-1096, 1991).
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanprollyright
as we have yet to prove that two people of the same DNA can be different in type
That's what I want to find out.

Last edited by Cyclops; 03/02/2010 at 07:48 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 03/02/2010, 08:30 PM
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MDarman MDarman is offline
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No, it's not possible...identical twins are the same type...the genome is the same.

Faternal twins have 25% correlation to factor 5 tests in relation to type and hereditary behavioral factors.

Last edited by MDarman; 03/02/2010 at 08:30 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 03/02/2010, 11:20 PM
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stanprollyright stanprollyright is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
Where does it say it's about fraternal twins?
I saw this:
Quote:
Adam and Jared, fraternal twins, have older brothers, but they're ambidextrous.
I just sort of skimmed the article, so I guess I missed that the other set of twins were identical.
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So this one time me an' my bes' frien' Stan, we went to a church service. That preacher was talkin' 'bout hell. So Stan leans over to me an' he says, "I bet hell is like a PoLR hit every day."

An' I says, "Stan, you prolly right."
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Old 03/02/2010, 11:54 PM
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I also have wondered about whether or not identical twins could possibly ever be using different personality type systems. It is a subject that grabs my attention as I have 2 sets of identical siblings.

Of the two identical sisters in this set the one on the left is quieter than the one far on the right. When they were young girls they would take turns swapping between being the quiet, timid one and the slightly louder,socially comfortable one. I do think that they are probably using the same personality system but have somehow chosen to take on different roles in society - could this be where the different enneagram types come into play?
http://www.socionics.com/forums/pict...&pictureid=106

In this photo you will see my young sisters who are in fact quadruplets. The girl in the middle had a twin who the doctors think was identical who died in the womb, so these are the remaining quads who we now call triplets. The girl on the left was far quieter than the girl on the far right when they were younger but now she is the louder more confident outgoing one of the two.
http://www.socionics.com/forums/pict...&pictureid=105

So overall I think the identical twins in my family are using the same personality system but probably have different enneagrams which allows them thier own uniqueness - roles in society etc. Identical twins can take turns being the more quieter or louder etc twin and this just naturally happens and can last for just a moment or for a much longer period.
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Old 04/02/2010, 11:52 AM
Cyclops Cyclops is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDarman View Post
No, it's not possible...identical twins are the same type...the genome is the same.

Faternal twins have 25% correlation to factor 5 tests in relation to type and hereditary behavioral factors.
That's interesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stanprollyright View Post
I saw this:


I just sort of skimmed the article, so I guess I missed that the other set of twins were identical.
OK, so you lambasted what I said and you didn't even know what you were talking about, thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzzy View Post
I also have wondered about whether or not identical twins could possibly ever be using different personality type systems. It is a subject that grabs my attention as I have 2 sets of identical siblings.

Of the two identical sisters in this set the one on the left is quieter than the one far on the right. When they were young girls they would take turns swapping between being the quiet, timid one and the slightly louder,socially comfortable one. I do think that they are probably using the same personality system but have somehow chosen to take on different roles in society - could this be where the different enneagram types come into play?
http://www.socionics.com/forums/pict...&pictureid=106

In this photo you will see my young sisters who are in fact quadruplets. The girl in the middle had a twin who the doctors think was identical who died in the womb, so these are the remaining quads who we now call triplets. The girl on the left was far quieter than the girl on the far right when they were younger but now she is the louder more confident outgoing one of the two.
http://www.socionics.com/forums/pict...&pictureid=105

So overall I think the identical twins in my family are using the same personality system but probably have different enneagrams which allows them thier own uniqueness - roles in society etc. Identical twins can take turns being the more quieter or louder etc twin and this just naturally happens and can last for just a moment or for a much longer period.
Good info Suzy! I can't access the photos at work just now, but I will try later.

I hope SG can contribute to discussion as well, if he's available.
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