Ramble Mumble Anything goes, but please make an effort to stay positive and keep it socionics related. 
27/06/2007, 12:08 PM


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Don't you have to review something about socionics?
Well SG, I am an ISTp and I have Ti>Te. Doesn't this make you want to review something in the theory of socionics?

27/06/2007, 04:15 PM


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I haven't noticed any Ti>Te, want to show it to me?

28/06/2007, 12:53 PM


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I have already told you that I hate applications.Once I know that something works and why and how it works, there's no need to application. The proof is the most important thing. While other students just get the basics of a chapter in science before starting to do exercices, I consider that reading the lesson in the book is crucial. And I just do the proofs exercices. The applications are of secondary importance for me. In math exams proofs' exersices are what help me the most to get points, unlike a lot of other students. Last fall I took a linear algebra course. Applying the process of searching a basis was a torture for me. Last spring I took real analysis and I enjoyed very much doing epsilonN proofs.
Reading the proofs of the book was a habit for me when I was at highschool. Now I try to prove the propositions myself before reading the proofs from the book. I am very good in remarking logical flaws. Leaving something unproved makes me feel I am intellectually dishonest with myself.
In an exersice on Newton's laws, before applying any law I think a lot about the reference we are considering, the system, why can the laws be applied before doing anything. In the atwood machine exersice I spent some time trying to see why does having an inextensible rope imply that the acceleration is the same along the rope, while others are so pragmatic that they just take it as it is.
In physics in general, I like to look at conceptual examples though we don't get any of them in the exam (just to show you how little do I care about pragmaticity which is Te). And I get a lot of pleasure doing them. For example let's come back to Newton's laws: If a train is accelerating, why is the tension in the coupler separating the first wagon from the second one greater than the tension in the coupler joining the last two wagons? Is such a question Te?
If I were a professor I would give exercices not containing numbers, and I would force students to write more reasonning (step by step which is crucial) and do more proofs.
Back to Atwood machine. I proved first that if two objects are moving at a same velocity (vector here is meant and not only magnitude) at t=0, then if the acceleration of object2 is > than the acceleration of object1 then for t > 0, v2 > v1.(the proof is in the end see ***). Then I have used this result to prove that the distance between object 1 and object 2 for t > 0 is greater than the distance between these two at t = 0. If the acceleration is not the same along the rope then there will exist two points such that the acceleration of point 1 is greater than the acceleration at point 2, then since the rope had initially a 0 vector velocity, by applying the above result for t > 0, the two points will become farer from each others than they were initially, which makes a contradiction with the fact that the rope is inexstensible.
A Te > Ti won't "waste" his time doing what I did. He will consider the proposition as a common sense thing. I know that intuitively speaking, this sounds right, but I donot consider this as right unless I have proven it.
*** since a2 > a1, have d(v2) / dt > d(v1) / dt, then ( d(v2) / dt )  ( d(v1) / dt ) > 0. Therefore the function ( v2  v1 )( t ) is increasing, hence for t > 0 v2(t)  v1(t) > v2(0)  V1(0) = 0. Hence v2(t) > v1(t).
I gave here a simple example, but I have a lot in topology and real analysis...etc
**** v2 > v1 => dx2/dt > dx1/dt => dx2/dt  dx1/dt > 0 => x2(t)  x1(t) is increasing => distance at t between 1 and 2 is greater than distance at 0 between 1 and 2.
One more thing, I am very semantic. I swear that in math it is easier for me to remember the proof of a proposition than to remember the proposition itself.
Long endless calculations are a torture for me.

28/06/2007, 04:59 PM


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It could be that since you are in Math field you need to use Ti a lot, which is true for Mathematics anyway. I'm not sure this could be used as a good example, can you find something that is not related to Math to demonstrate Ti>Te. Or is it possible you are an ESTp?

02/07/2007, 01:01 PM


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I will think about examples from outside science. Yes, ESTp is really probable. What do you think of ISFp? He has Ti > Te. Does he use Ti the way I use it? Remember that you have several photos of I, look at them again.
I would like to note that I draw diagrams, schemas, graphs... while writing a proof. I see the proof with my eyes, and than I spend time trying to see how I will translate the visual proof into mathematical expressions (which will make a real proof). Is that related to Te/Ti?

02/07/2007, 01:17 PM


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Probably neither.

02/07/2007, 01:38 PM


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For example, when you say all dogs are animals I draw a circle called dog that is included in another circle called animal.
Can that be S?

02/07/2007, 02:00 PM


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Why, cos S / is also round? Draw the square, see what you can come up with.

02/07/2007, 02:32 PM


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No... you must be joking. Of course the squares will give the same thing.

02/07/2007, 03:22 PM


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What about triangle?

02/07/2007, 03:29 PM


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What do you use as a geometric figure doesn't matter. What matters is whether you are using them in a correct way or not.

02/07/2007, 06:22 PM


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Hmm, I see, I see, so how about an L shape?

03/07/2007, 07:44 AM


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I can't figure out what are you trying to tell from this discussion. Look, if we draw a shape that is included in another is each point in the interior a point of the exterior shape. Yes, of course which is what is necessary and enough to say that a set is included in another. Of course this doesn't prove that everything about sets can be viewed coorectly from these diagrams.
There is something that has to be pointed out: I use images as a conjecture only. I never said that they are the proof. Being somebody who is becoming a mathematician I cannot rely entirely on what is visually true. However images can be used to guess. But I am interested in knowing what is your objective from this provocation.
I know that you have tried the symbole of each function, but I cannot see the interest of this discussion.
Oh I forgot to say something. Yesterday (and for the first time), I tested the strength of my feeling. How? I imagined myself hugging a girl and feeling intimacy with her. I could enjoy that in the beginning, but in not more than 10 minutes I got very very tired. What a surprise! I felt that my heart couldn't bear that anymore, honestly I felt exhausted.
It takes me much more time doing and reading proofs to get tired: at least two or three hours. This made me sure that I have a preference for thinking. Another thing that shows that I have a weak feeling is that I am not able to experience emotions while reading a poem.

03/07/2007, 09:16 AM


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Of course the shape has nothing to do with it, I was being silly. The drawingvisualising part is more Intuition than anything I'd say. And so is imagining hugging a girl for 10 min. Do it for real, but then you can mistake it with Sensing. You have to get romantically involved with someone to get in touch with your Feeling.

03/07/2007, 11:01 AM


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Oh, yeah yeah yeah, I see. You are right. What makes me sometimes think that I would be an F rather than a T is that it happens to me to be willing to hug someone I see in real or on TV. This happens only if the skin of that person pleases me. You made me conscious of that now Sergei. How idiot am I to have thought that this is a feelingrelated thing? Romantic involvment? Pretty confusing for me! It is very difficult for me to let myself indulge in some romantic feelings. When I listen to a music that touches feelings (and not exciting the senses which I like a lot) something in me pushes me to resist and remain not influenced. I feel weak if somebody has an effect on my feelings.
Now I see why my mother refuses that I hug though she is an F. My hug is for sensory pleasure while I think that I am giving her some tenderness.
But can I claim that I am a T? Well, I am still not 100% sure of that. Sergei, do you have another exercise to test the strength of my feeling?

03/07/2007, 11:10 AM


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I'll think of something. As for the hug, it is more of an SF thing with S being and F being in my opinion

03/07/2007, 11:14 AM


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Well, willing to hug doesn't happen always: once or twice a day. But I don't know. Are you saying I could be an ISFp? I don't know at all how to spend extratime, I don't have a group to which I am loyal. I do nothing during that time. But note that when I meet someone I hate kissing as a greating.
But then why would refute romanticism completely?

03/07/2007, 11:20 AM


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Quote:
Originally Posted by complicatercomplexer
Well, willing to hug doesn't happen always: once or twice a day. But I don't know. Are you saying I could be an ISFp?

I doubt that.

03/07/2007, 11:24 AM


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I didn't understand what do you doubt? How frequently do I like to hug or being an ISFp? If the second then are you rather saying ESFj?

03/07/2007, 12:45 PM


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I doubt that you are any kind of SF

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