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  #261  
Old 07/06/2008, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by kensi View Post
I'd have no problem labelling you, pandapanda, an Extratim INFj
I'm gonna act like Prom again, now: I want proof that several socionists agree you can have Extratim INFjs.
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  #262  
Old 07/06/2008, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post

Could you explain to me what you mean by a particular breed of ISTp? I can't help thinking your getting ISTJ mixed up with ISTp still, like you said to me before that I should be a bean counter who isn't interested in socionics because ISTp's aren't into that.



No , it's virtually impossible for me to get these 2 mixed up. I have an extensive library of both people with ISTj and ISTp tendancies and looks.
They are rather easy for me to tell if i only had to choose between the two.
An SiTe attitude in the ego (in whatever sub-form it comes in) is radically different than a TiSe attitude (in whatever sub-form it too comes in). T is always a judging function and S is always perceptive. To further my own belief in my own library.....the people labelled ISTp Celebrity with on this site, i agree with about 70% and vice versa for ISTj. Not to sound conceited or anything, but it is really easy.
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  #263  
Old 07/06/2008, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by kensi View Post
No , it's virtually impossible for me to get these 2 mixed up. I have an extensive library of both people with ISTj and ISTp tendancies and looks.
They are rather easy for me to tell if i only had to choose between the two.
An SiTe attitude in the ego (in whatever sub-form it comes in) is radically different than a TiSe attitude (in whatever sub-form it too comes in). T is always a judging function and S is always perceptive. To further my own belief in my own library.....the people labelled ISTp Celebrity with on this site, i agree with about 70% and vice versa for ISTj. Not to sound conceited or anything, but it is really easy.
I repeat. What do you mean by a particular brand of ISTp? ISTp's aren't bean counters, yet you say they are?
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  #264  
Old 07/06/2008, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by pandapanda View Post
I'm gonna act like Prom again, now: I want proof that several socionists agree you can have Extratim INFjs.
If your overall desire is to seek proof itself as an anchor......please consider you may be an INFj chasing after the illusive Te.


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Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
My experience is that's the sort of thing i'd expect from ENFj not ENFp interaction on internet and sometimes real life also. It's something similar to what i've experienced with ENFj's on internet not ENFp's. Hey maybe ENFp's don't understand me either..but I guess they're far more diplomatic than either me or other ENFj's so hey..well I guess that's a summary..but like I say, haven't we kind of spoke of this more or jess?
You cant expect people supposedly your dual, to be nice to you in every way. If you're only 70 % sure of my type and I'm 70% sure of yours.....thats a 49 % level of sure-ity (if there is such a word)....in how we interact as a unit....there's going to be disputes cause we're not sure. Dont even go there to begin with.

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Originally Posted by pandapanda View Post
No, I thought they were just the Russian words for extrovert and introvert. Intuitive Ethical Extratim, I thought just meant, Intuitive Ethical Extrovert. Have you got a link that explains it? If you're right I've been missing something major.
Some ENFPs have a very subdued extraverted nature (due to a high development of Fi) that,in my definition at least, will give them an INFj feel. on the other hand some INFjs have a very overactive extraverted nature (due to high Ne development) that will give them an ENFp feel. This is just a very basic description in the time being. I think www.socionics.us has some more info.
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Last edited by kensi; 07/06/2008 at 10:04 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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  #265  
Old 07/06/2008, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by kensi View Post
If your overall desire is to seek proof itself as an anchor......please consider you may be an INFj chasing after the illusive Te.
It's not my overall desire, but you've said something about socionics I've never heard before. If it is true, I'd have to take it into account with my typing. It would majorly alter a lot of people's approach to socionics, imho. All I'm asking is for you to support the idea. If you came up with it yourself, say so.

I've got nothing against the 'Extratim INFj' typing of me, but first I want to know if it actually exists.
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  #266  
Old 07/06/2008, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
I'm not overly familiar with this, but if it is important enough, why doesn't SG refer to it in his intertype relation dynamics on his web site? It can't be that important surely, if it exists of course.
its a factor that can easily lead to mistyping along the mirror relationship. I don't think S.G has time to teach us all these things and then we bail out on the site altogether or something like that.

just cause we got into this discussion i think that PandaPanda may be an INFj (using extratim/intratim logic) while you can still retain your ISTp status for the time being.....I only say this cause the two of you seem to interact very well almost in an activation way. It is by far the easiest relationship to start( Duality is quite a bit harder to start...and usually requires a decent run-in period). I am getting some vibes in that regard but its way too early to tell. Its just cybertalk now.
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  #267  
Old 07/06/2008, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kensi View Post
If your overall desire is to seek proof itself as an anchor......please consider you may be an INFj chasing after the illusive Te.




You cant expect people supposedly your dual, to be nice to you in every way. If you're only 70 % sure of my type and I'm 70% sure of yours.....thats a 49 % level of sure-ity (if there is such a word)....in how we interact as a unit....there's going to be disputes cause we're not sure. Dont even go there to begin with.



Some ENFPs have a very subdued extraverted nature (due to a high development of Fi) that,in my definition at least, will give them an INFj feel. on the other hand some INFjs have a very overactive extraverted nature (due to high Ne development) that will give them an ENFp feel. This is just a very basic description in the time being. I think www.socionics.us has some more info.
Kensi, you should keep in mind the sub type theory in regards to using a creative function would make one a little more like their look a like. In terms of extroverted introtims, it's another way of describing a creative sub type. As you already know, the creative function behaves very differently to the dominant function, so the person will behave in a rather different way than what you are trying to imply (and what I believe is mentioned 'there' as I recall reading it recently) The effect as thus is different from natural extraverts.

Now what your saying, is that pandapanda is using her creative Ne more as per INFj. This can't be the case because she takes in information as well as produces when it is turned on. Now as you don't accept while you are producing ..ie you type but you don't read.. you like to talk but not really listen, perhaps it is you who is over using some creative function
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  #268  
Old 07/06/2008, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kensi View Post
Some ENFPs have a very subdued extraverted nature (due to a high development of Fi) that,in my definition at least, will give them an INFj feel. on the other hand some INFjs have a very overactive extraverted nature (due to high Ne development) that will give them an ENFp feel. This is just a very basic description in the time being. I think www.socionics.us has some more info.
If you're suggesting I'm a Ne subtype INFj, that makes more sense. However, I heard Ne subtype INFjs were more like INTjs, like Ne subtype ENFps are like ENTps - but that could be wrong.

I still think I'm a ENFp, even a Ne subtype one - because that's the way I test. Gulenko's descriptions of the subtypes for ENFp has Ne subtypes down as somewhat less extroverted than Fi subtype ones (who take after ESFps, by the sound of it).

Look:

http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=IEE_subtypes

I'll admit this one theory of yours isn't totally crazy though
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  #269  
Old 07/06/2008, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
Care to venture an opinion on my type?
you dont have an avatar pic. If you're too shy then just tell me what person you associate yourself to be a hell of a lot like .....and i will type you based on this. (i do see you capable of ISTp...i, unlike you,do not feel that there is any major uncomfortable feeling around you.)
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  #270  
Old 07/06/2008, 10:34 PM
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Maybe Kensi makes a good point? I've been starting to think he really is an ENFp and pandapanda actually might be an INFj.
Kensi = ENFp
Pandapanda = INFj
?????
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  #271  
Old 07/06/2008, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by kensi View Post
its a factor that can easily lead to mistyping along the mirror relationship. I don't think S.G has time to teach us all these things and then we bail out on the site altogether or something like that.
Teach? Me? No way man, I'm not the teaching kind. Anyway, Extratim is basically Extrovert so you cant be Extratim INFj but you can be Extroverted INFj or Introverted ENFp. I think ENFps that are quite concious about their T tend to be more introverted.
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  #272  
Old 07/06/2008, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by SG View Post
Teach? Me? No way man, I'm not the teaching kind. Anyway, Extratim is basically Extrovert so you cant be Extratim INFj but you can be Extroverted INFj or Introverted ENFp. I think ENFps that are quite concious about their T tend to be more introverted.
That only applies to ENFp or is it a general rule for all EF types?
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  #273  
Old 07/06/2008, 10:42 PM
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I've noticed this tendency in ENFps, in different types it would probably depend on different things.
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  #274  
Old 07/06/2008, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by pandapanda View Post
If you're suggesting I'm a Ne subtype INFj, that makes more sense. However, I heard Ne subtype INFjs were more like INTjs, like Ne subtype ENFps are like ENTps - but that could be wrong.

I still think I'm a ENFp, even a Ne subtype one - because that's the way I test. Gulenko's descriptions of the subtypes for ENFp has Ne subtypes down as somewhat less extroverted than Fi subtype ones (who take after ESFps, by the sound of it).

Look:

http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=IEE_subtypes

I'll admit this one theory of yours isn't totally crazy though
There are several subtype theories. The more successfull ones tend to try to preserve the existing system rather than revolutionize it.

For all i know, you may be an Fi dominant ENFP, however the order in which you use NeFi makes you feel that your Ne is more dominant even though you dont ultimately communicate thru it but thru an ethics-like ,holistic Fi value.

From my past experiences, i've found INFj women (not all of them) very attractive ....more so than INFp or ENFj women...........even though there is this mirror-like communication dilenma. Hey, but thats just me!

This is all speculation though

thanks for the link.
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  #275  
Old 07/06/2008, 10:44 PM
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There is something weird here since the T which ENFps value is Te.
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  #276  
Old 07/06/2008, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by complicater-complexer View Post
There is something weird here since the T which ENFps value is Te.
Well T is and always was Te+Ti and it is not like you have one but don't have another, you just interested/use/know about one more than the other. So lets just call it T for the purpose of this convo.
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  #277  
Old 07/06/2008, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by SG View Post
Teach? Me? No way man, I'm not the teaching kind. Anyway, Extratim is basically Extrovert so you cant be Extratim INFj but you can be Extroverted INFj or Introverted ENFp. I think ENFps that are quite concious about their T tend to be more introverted.
this is only just me but i prefer to label people solely on the inclination of their base/dominant expression world. By doing so this preserves direct recognition of the types duality structure. To go about it the other way means that you have to search within the depths of the formula to find the duality structure.

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Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
I repeat. What do you mean by a particular brand of ISTp? ISTp's aren't bean counters, yet you say they are?
let's leave that comment out....it does no type justice to have such a stereotypical name unless each type has 20 stereotypical names.
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  #278  
Old 07/06/2008, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by RSV3 View Post
Maybe Kensi makes a good point? I've been starting to think he really is an ENFp and pandapanda actually might be an INFj.
Kensi = ENFp
Pandapanda = INFj
?????
I'd take it with a pinch of salt. I don't at all mind people thinking I'm an INFj, since it is (to me) an attractive type, but I've never tested as one and I'm generally extroverted. Plus, I'm lazy and don't have that overachiever thing characteristic of INFjs.

And for the record, I still think kensi's an ENFj.

And with that, I'll gracefully bow out of this discussion.

Night, y'all.
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  #279  
Old 07/06/2008, 10:56 PM
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Well T is and always was Te+Ti and it is not like you have one but don't have another, you just interested/use/know about one more than the other. So lets just call it T for the purpose of this convo.
So from this perspective we can say that T leads to more detachment, hence introversion.
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  #280  
Old 07/06/2008, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by pandapanda View Post

http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=IEE_subtypes

I'll admit this one theory of yours isn't totally crazy though
it's just that you dont strike me as the double Ne type......i suspect your ethical abilities are quite a lot better than mine
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