The Sub Types

[pandapanda]

Originally Posted by Cyclops

To summarise on this, i'm leaning towards (I believe) Megeds theory, that emphasis on sub type could make us more like our comparative and look a likes.

Why? Well.. Example--

For instance. Take ISTp. An emphasis on dominant Si.,what other type has a dominant Si? ISFp-so more like ISFp. An emphasis on creative Te, what other type has creative Te? INTp-so a little more like INTp.

Which isn't fully why I think this but one can the sort of see effect this would have on a person..and I think could also have an impact on some intertype relations (for instance a creative subtype could therefore make illusionary relations seem more attractive - at least at first, and maybe for a while after too of course.)

So yes and no for impact at times I would say. Um..this approach *seems* to make sense to me.

So...an ENFp with an emphasis on Fi would be a bit like an ESFp - correct? Hmm, I dated my illusionary for a while, and I'm trying to think if it was because I was the Fi subtype - because I seemed like an ESFp to him. However, I've always thought of myself as a Ne person naturally, I've recently been trying to develop my Fi as a way of being more mature and calm like INFj, . They have dominant Fi, so I'm trying to switch functions around as a way of getting people to take me seriously and like me (which isn't why INFjs use their dominant Fi, but oh well). Maybe when you have a creative subtype, you actually resemble a type that has your creative function as their dominant one - the closest in this case being the mirror type.

I used to test as an ENTp years ago, though I've always been an ENFp. I now test solidly as an ENFp, which I think is because of trying to use my Fi more. If anything, switching to Fi makes me more like an INFj (in my own mind).

A lot of Ne does indeed make make me like an ENTp. Maybe my ex thought I was an ENTp rather than an ESFp. It makes sense why an INTp would date someone who seems like an ENTp, although it's not an ideal relationship. You're not necessarily always attracted to your dual at first. Someone who seems like your contrary can be rather alluring.

If you used Te more, couldn't you be more like ESTj, rather than INTp? Or is that just not happening? Discard this theory if you like, but I was wondering.

[Cyclops]

Originally Posted by pandapanda

So...an ENFp with an emphasis on Fi would be a bit like an ESFp - correct? Hmm, I dated my illusionary for a while, and I'm trying to think if it was because I was the Fi subtype - because I seemed like an ESFp to him. However, I've always thought of myself as a Ne person naturally, I've recently been trying to develop my Fi as a way of being more mature and calm like INFj, . They have dominant Fi, so I'm trying to switch functions around as a way of getting people to take me seriously and like me (which isn't why INFjs use their dominant Fi, but oh well). Maybe when you have a creative subtype, you actually resemble a type that has your creative function as their dominant one - the closest in this case being the mirror type.

I used to test as an ENTp years ago, though I've always been an ENFp. I now test solidly as an ENFp, which I think is because of trying to use my Fi more. If anything, switching to Fi makes me more like an INFj (in my own mind).

A lot of Ne does indeed make make me like an ENTp. Maybe my ex thought I was an ENTp rather than an ESFp. It makes sense why an INTp would date someone who seems like an ENTp, although it's not an ideal relationship. You're not necessarily always attracted to your dual at first. Someone who seems like your contrary can be rather alluring.

If you used Te more, couldn't you be more like ESTj, rather than INTp? Or is that just not happening? Discard this theory if you like, but I was wondering.

Well, first things first, imo, you don't have to use Fi more to get people to like you more. Why? Well, by my reckoning, I like you very much , so I reckon you should just stick the way you are

I think your hypothesis on it is very home although i'm not too sure if using your creative function more would make you seem like your mirror more. The reason why I think this is because, (as per classical socionics anyway) and of course my personal observations..creative function works differently than the dominant function. Basically because the dominant function takes in the information, and the second function produces with it, so in a way the first function is more versatile, because it can take information in while it's working. The dominant function is switched on pretty much all the time, but creative function is usually only switched on for a few hours at most before it's 'tired.'

This is why, if you spend too long with your activity partner, they can start to affect your weak points, because all though they've got your dual seeking functions, they work a bit differently to your dual, ie one is a bit too strong, and other not strong enough

Well, this is my thinking on it, but yeah you could be right

What i do have mind you, which may help you panda one-two is a translation of Megeds type and sub type descriptions. It may help you identify if you have a sub type, and well, may just be interesting anyway. I'll get it over to ya.

[pandapanda]

Originally Posted by Cyclops

I'll get it over to ya.

Okay, thanks. Sounds interesting, I don't actually know a lot about subtype - but the idea seems to explain why some people of the same type are a bit different in their outlook on life.

Oh yeah, I suppose creative and dominant can't be switched because they work differently. I guess if I really was a Fi subtype, I would seem like an ESFp - but I'm not trying to switch subtype so much as use the creative function more effectively. Different thing. The Ne stays dominant, and is still probably my subtype - I'm just trying to do more with another side of my personality.

[kensi]

Originally Posted by Cyclops

This is clearly incorrect and shows that you do not understand socionics or the types. Anything you say in regards to socionics should be treated with suspicion, and I will do so.
You prove my point.
You do not understand.

I think u'v got no control of your ego, dude.
If someone says something that is incorrect u show em the correct version in detail.....n not just rant about all that negativity like u do.
u dont go on trying to find fault in everything of someone else just to satisfy your ego.

in our conversations i'm the one doin the talkin.im the one goin to lengths to explain somethin u barely say anything worhwhile.

your english is bad. i cant understand half the time what ur sayin n i think that half the time your style is only goin to confuse people....

you should focus in on yourself and not the perceived faults of others

where am i to go to find something actually decent that u said.ur too much of a pessimist.

My advice: Be more optimistic n learn to work with people !

[Kanerou]

Fi conflict? I will say that Cyclops isn't as bad about it as some NiTes that I've seen; he doesn't give off the arrogant vibe. Is this lack of tact a Te trait or a Ti trait?

[Cyclops]

Kensi, i've tried to explain myself a few times, but you don't seem to get it.

Re your advice, I should really consider if I were you to re-consider your type, that sort of advice is not the thing that works on an ISTp, seriously.

I don't have an ego. I'm sorry that you misunderstand me and I do not wish to 'fight' with you so fwiw I shall try harder, but in fairness you should also.

So peace love and hairgrease.

Originally Posted by Kanerou

Fi conflict? I will say that Cyclops isn't as bad about it as some NiTes that I've seen; he doesn't give off the arrogant vibe. Is this lack of tact a Te trait or a Ti trait?

I am SiTe ie SLI. I suspect however it is more an Fi-Fe thing. Aka I suspect kensi would require more Fe from my side. This is just a theory, but from what I can sense over the internet, I don't get any Fi from him. Of course this could be due to other factors such as a bruised ego on his part-i'm not saying he has, but it's a possibility.

[RSV3]

Originally Posted by Kanerou

Fi conflict? I will say that Cyclops isn't as bad about it as some NiTes that I've seen; he doesn't give off the arrogant vibe. Is this lack of tact a Te trait or a Ti trait?

Hey, NiTe's aren't the only arrogant ones, you forgot TiNes! But at least an LII has Fi in his role function so occassionally he can manage to avoid stepping on people's toes (at least when his Ti isn't in full force).

[Kanerou]

Originally Posted by Cyclops

I am SiTe ie SLI. I suspect however it is more an Fi-Fe thing. Aka I suspect kensi would require more Fe from my side. This is just a theory, but from what I can sense over the internet, I don't get any Fi from him. Of course this could be due to other factors such as a bruised ego on his part-i'm not saying he has, but it's a possibility.

I'm aware of your type. I knew exactly what I was saying; you two types share Te-creative, but you seem less...rigid when it comes to your ideas. Less egotistical, in a sense. Is Fe that which takes others' feelings into consideration? I thought that was Fi.

Originally Posted by RSV3

Hey, NiTe's aren't the only arrogant ones, you forgot TiNes! But at least an LII has Fi in his role function so occassionally he can manage to avoid stepping on people's toes (at least when his Ti isn't in full force).

*grins* Oh, I've run into some asinine LIIs, too. I've also run into some that are bearable - even fascinating. They haven't given off so much of the same vibe as ILIs; in other words, they're not so consistent people-wise. LIIs are wonderful sources of information when they're not acting intellectually superior.

[kensi]

Originally Posted by Cyclops

Kensi, i've tried to explain myself a few times, but you don't seem to get it.

Re your advice, I should really consider if I were you to re-consider your type, that sort of advice is not the thing that works on an ISTp .

I cant understand what ur sayin 'n i cant reply to it either......... cause you dont construct real sentences but only several phrases thrown in as jargon. Take a look at ur quote above....Theres no way that that's a comprehendable sentence at least not by the english i know................
...... why don't you just say :If i were u i'd reconsider your type.

and what does..........
............".that sort of advice etc etc"...have to do with me reconsidering my type....it doesn't further the cause of the previous statement.


how can i possibly talk to u ,its not worth while?
I get along with alpha leaning ISTps great so maybe you should reconsider your type...(i will admit though that there is a set of gamma leaning ISTps which i cant say i get along with great. maybe thats your type.)

cheers.

[RSV3]

Originally Posted by Kanerou

Is Fe that which takes others' feelings into consideration? I thought that was Fi.

Fe is the ability to recognize emotions in others and convey them yourself.

Fi is the ability to recognize social conventions and interpersonal relationship structures and to follow them.

[Kanerou]

Just throwing in my two cents - I understand him just fine. I might give you that his sentence structure is slightly strange - maybe - but really, even as a stickler for proper punctuation and grammar, his writing style doesn't offend me.

[Cyclops]

Originally Posted by Kanerou

I'm aware of your type. I knew exactly what I was saying; you two types share Te-creative, but you seem less...rigid when it comes to your ideas. Less egotistical, in a sense. Is Fe that which takes others' feelings into consideration? I thought that was Fi.

Your right, I agree with you..hey I typed some stuff here lol.. My take on stuff which seems to tie in with yours kinda I think

Fe is about how people feel on the outside in a sense, for instance people who 'value' Fe will show their emotions a lot - ie smiling frowning basically being emotionally expressive. Like you say, Fi is more about how people feel on the inside-understanding someone internally, 'static' bonds, good or bad, that sort of thing -getting to know the person 'within'

Because Fe is more emotionally expressive, it looks for people to be emotionally expressive. Like how many times have you heard someone say to an SLI 'Cheer up!' when really the SLI feels ok on inside but Fe want to see it on outside (which it looks like kensi is trying to say to me maybe?) Think of ESFj who is always smiling and stuff

So I think, fwiw, that kensi wants me to 'smile' more on the internet. Note also how he is saying things from me 'emotional' context on the internet-on the public forum- he is showing feeling externally and trying to show me up in 'public' maybe to a point. Which is kind of like feeling extraverted ie Fe.

Hey he me be ENFp, but he has said maybe ENTp. But hey what do I know, it's just a take on things I guess

[kensi]

Originally Posted by RSV3

Fe is the ability to recognize emotions in others and convey them yourself.

Fi is the ability to recognize social conventions and interpersonal relationship structures and to follow them.

for all intensive purposes....well said

[Kanerou]

Originally Posted by Cyclops

De
Your right, I agree with you..hey I typed some stuff here lol.. My take on stuff which seems to tie in with yours kinda?

*glares* Proper English....please..... Yeah, they do seem to tie together.

Originally Posted by Cyclops

Fe is about how people feel on the outside in a sense, for instance people who 'value' Fe will show their emotions a lot - ie smiling frowning basically being emotionally expressive. Like you say, Fi is more about how people feel on the inside-understanding someone internally, 'static' bonds, good or bad, that sort of thing -getting to know the person 'within'

Wow. Maybe I am Fi-PoLR.

Originally Posted by Cyclops

Because Fe is more emotionally expressive, it looks for people to be emotionally expressive. Like how many times have you heard someone say to an SLI 'Cheer up!' when really the SLI feels ok on inside but Fe want to see it on outside (which it looks like kensi is trying to say to me maybe?) Think of ESFj who is always smiling and stuff

*gags at thought of SFj's Happy Se*

Originally Posted by Cyclops

So I think, fwiw, that kensi wants me to 'smile' more on the internet. Note also how he is saying things from me 'emotional' context on the internet-on the public forum- he is showing feeling externally and trying to show me up in 'public' maybe to a point. Which is kind of like feeling extraverted ie Fe.

Hey he me be ENFp, but he has said maybe ENTp. But hey what do I know, it's just a take on things I guess

Hadn't noticed. The only time I pay attention to someone's overall emotional expression is when it's annoying me, usually.

See, you are willing to be wrong! *weeps happily for the existence of SiTes* Or, at least, you don't act like you know everything. Is that typical for SiTes?

[kensi]

Originally Posted by Cyclops

Your right, I agree with you..hey I typed some stuff here lol.. My take on stuff which seems to tie in with yours kinda I think

Fe is about how people feel on the outside in a sense, for instance people who 'value' Fe will show their emotions a lot - ie smiling frowning basically being emotionally expressive. Like you say, Fi is more about how people feel on the inside-understanding someone internally, 'static' bonds, good or bad, that sort of thing -getting to know the person 'within'

Hey he me be ENFp, but he has said maybe ENTp. But hey what do I know, it's just a take on things I guess

well sai d now i actually have somebody talkin to me rather than finding bits and pieces of negativity they cant cope with which they want to reveal to me......

now i can talk to this guy.................... and no i'm not a stickler for propper grammar etc but only whenthe lines of communication are broken and you have to get em back together

as to type:........I've never been comfortable with the ESFj personality, i feel almost as if something is/ was taken from me

Is this not a feeling that an ENFp is supposed to get according to intertype ?

Originally Posted by kensi

Is this not a feeling that an ENFp is supposed to get according to intertype ?

I mean surely an entp would be more comfortable with an esfj than an enfp would, hey?

[Cyclops]

Originally Posted by Kanerou

*glares* Proper English....please..... Yeah, they do seem to tie together.



Wow. Maybe I am Fi-PoLR.

Yeah?

Hadn't noticed. The only time I pay attention to someone's overall emotional expression is when it's annoying me, usually.

lolz

See, you are willing to be wrong! *weeps happily for the existence of SiTes* Or, at least, you don't act like you know everything. Is that typical for SiTes?

Haha.. I thought that said *wees happily for the existence of SiTes* lol. .. Ugh, doing so well, then had to ruin it with my 'joke' :rollseyes:

Well, to be honest, i'd say SLI's can be (and probably are aha) kinda stubborn, but defo we're well aware we can be wrong and stuff, and we certainly know we don't know everything lol, and from that we kinda doubt ourselves, at least as much as the next person, where probably that's where Fi helps us, because doubt is an internal emotion and Fi is more so about understanding whats 'underneath' Gee that was deep aha..I'll need to quit this 'Fi' stuff aha

Anyway..enough about me..what's your type!

[Kanerou]

I could see that. I helped a SiTe take a personality test once. Rather interesting.... My type? That's what we're still trying to figure out, remember?

[pandapanda]

Originally Posted by kensi

your english is bad.

Pot, meet kettle.





Sorry, I couldn't resist.

[kensi]

Originally Posted by pandapanda

Pot, meet kettle.
Sorry, I couldn't resist.

uuuuuuuhhh, isn't that sweet. lol

Originally Posted by pandapanda

Pot, meet kettle.

i dont hear that phrase here where i'm from ...i take it its a sarcastic one..??

[pandapanda]

Originally Posted by kensi

uuuuuuuhhh, isn't that sweet. lol

To be honest, I don't really care if people have 'bad' English, unless I'm teaching them. I'm planning to teach adult literacy, hopefully in prisons. I make mistakes on the internet, like everyone does - except the Ultimate Grammar Nazi (who is probably an INTp, although I've never met one before who was good at English).

Originally Posted by kensi

i dont hear that phrase here where i'm from ...i take it its a sarcastic one..??

Have you ever heard the expression 'that's like the pot calling the kettle black?' It means you accuse someone of something you do also.