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  #21  
Old 24/05/2008, 02:04 AM
Cyclops Cyclops is offline
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Huh. So would Ni be diverging and Ne converging?
I don't know what you mean by diverging and converging but on the basis of what the words themselves mean then yes Ne would converge I guess.

I had another look through your description, definitely seems like an Ip description, you seem to value Ni so with you being Ip then that makes the irrationial Ni function dominant..so that makes you INxp. You don't like particularly conflict which doesn't sound very INTp to me, which leaves INFp. There's a few things you say which sounds like an INFp, your seem to VI like an INFp. I think you're INFp. I still think you should post more photos though.
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  #22  
Old 24/05/2008, 02:06 AM
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I don't know what you mean by diverging and converging but on the basis of what the words themselves mean then yes Ne would converge I guess.

I had another look through your description, definitely seems like an Ip description, you seem to value Ni so with you being Ip then that makes the irrationial Ni function dominant..so that makes you INxp. You don't like particularly conflict which doesn't sound very INTp to me, which leaves INFp. There's a few things you say which sounds like an INFp, your seem to VI like an INFp. I think you're INFp. I still think you should post more photos though.
In which case we would never work out. Stinks for you. We'll see about more pictures. What I don't understand is this: if I'm so good at Ni, then why don't I plan for things? Is it one of those "exception to the rule" things?
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  #23  
Old 24/05/2008, 02:09 AM
Vibration Vibration is offline
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And this relates to the situation how?
Translate it.
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  #24  
Old 24/05/2008, 02:11 AM
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"Do you think you can't fool me? I do. I have probably underestimated you." Either that or, "Do you think you can fool me? I don't think so. I have accurately estimated you (or possibly "I have underestimated you"). The last part of the sentence is unclear. How does it relate?
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  #25  
Old 24/05/2008, 02:24 AM
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In which case we would never work out. Stinks for you. We'll see about more pictures. What I don't understand is this: if I'm so good at Ni, then why don't I plan for things? Is it one of those "exception to the rule" things?
This is how I understand it..with our Ip temperaments, we tend to have low energies..which means we can spend a relatively longer amount of time in inactivity, it also means that being Ip we are dynamic types, in the sense that we see the world changing in a more fluid way than other types..it's like that analogy by some Russian socionist guy..where you watch a film at say 50 frames a second, and another film at say 20 frames a second, which is an analogy for how we perceive reality, so things are more fluid for us. Because of this it, I see it as meaning that we feel more capable of dealing with things as and when they happen (at least it seems that way for me) - i make a good improvisor.

In terms of the possibilites- you can predict possibilities, but predicting is somewhat different from planning. Here's what i've found with Ni:

What i've found with Ni blocked with Fe is that it concerns itself with predicting possibilites (and patterns) with people in mind. Ie it's good at saying things, knowing to understand the correct political situation of a group, even office politics, it knows how to stay on the good side of people if it wishes..to survive with a smile (survivor types are how they're sometimes described)

Ni blocked with Te: It predicts systems, impartial outcomes and what have you..people in that sense doesn't really concern it-it would say predict outcomes on the stock exchange for instance, or spot patterns in a set of experiments and could make predictions on that.

Predictions, patterns..will go to Fe or Te

Last edited by Cyclops; 24/05/2008 at 02:30 AM.
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  #26  
Old 24/05/2008, 02:30 AM
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"Survivor type". Sounds perfect. So adapting when necessary but not until (physically or mentally)... Ti-seeking?
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  #27  
Old 24/05/2008, 02:33 AM
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"Survivor type". Sounds perfect. So adapting when necessary but not until (physically or mentally)... Ti-seeking?
Exactly. BTW, super-ego relations work..for a while aha
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  #28  
Old 24/05/2008, 02:35 AM
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Exactly. BTW, super-ego relations work..for a while aha
Sweet. *grins* Provided my stepfather is ENTj (he's got to finish reading the description), I have lived with Super-Ego relations for the last 15 years. I'm not doing that to myself.

Know much about subtypes?
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  #29  
Old 24/05/2008, 02:47 AM
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Sweet. *grins* Provided my stepfather is ENTj (he's got to finish reading the description), I have lived with Super-Ego relations for the last 15 years. I'm not doing that to myself.
Oh we don't have to *live* together..girl you move fast don't ya
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Know much about subtypes?
Not much, well..a little, i've got some thoughts on them, but i'm still reading into them, what about you?
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  #30  
Old 24/05/2008, 02:49 AM
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Oh we don't have to *live* together..girl you move fast don't ya


Not much, well..a little, i've got some thoughts on them, but i'm still reading into them, what about you?
When I think of a relationship, I think of one with a certain goal in mind at the end, not just something to do for the time being. Therefore, I prefer to judge long-term compatibility.

Don't know much about them. I was looking at IEI subtypes. I suspect Fe. I'm gonna be gone until Tuesday. I don't know how many more posts I'll be making today, if any. So have a good weekend. If I don't reply to the next post, you know why.

Last edited by Kanerou; 24/05/2008 at 02:56 AM.
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  #31  
Old 24/05/2008, 03:00 AM
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When I think of a relationship, I think of one with a certain goal in mind at the end, not just something to do for the time being. Therefore, I prefer to judge long-term compatibility.
That sounds like a good idea. How do you go about that? Do you mean by intertype relations? I've sort of gone with the flow at times with relationships, although I realise it's not always the best. Hmm..Maybe it's a strong Ni vs not so strong Ni thing going on.
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I was looking at IEI subtypes. I'm gonna be gone until Tuesday. I don't know how many more posts I'll be making today, if any. So have a good weekend. If I don't reply to the next post, you know why.
Sure. I'll be checking out for tonight also. I'd like to hear your thoughts on the sub types. What have you been reading?

Nice chatting to ya. More photos!

Enjoy your weekend too.
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  #32  
Old 24/05/2008, 03:23 PM
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If I had a gun to my head and had to pick from j and p, I'd pick p, as for INF bit, I'm not sure.
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  #33  
Old 24/05/2008, 11:04 PM
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Yes, Cyclops, I use intertype relations - across the different theories. I may see a guy and, judging from his traits, say to myself, "This guy and I would have problems if we got together". The like. I would see little point in dating a guy if I don't see him as a type (of person) that I'd want to marry. This isn't to say that my feelings don't overrule this. They've been doing so too often, lately. Though that could just be loneliness.

SG: Anything sound better to you?

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Nice chatting to ya. More photos!

What? It's a self portrait....sort of. No, that's not my torso in the picture.

Last edited by Kanerou; 24/05/2008 at 11:04 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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  #34  
Old 27/05/2008, 12:45 AM
Vibration Vibration is offline
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Huh. So would Ni be diverging and Ne converging?
I think NiTe persons look from a universal point of view, they are taking the view of the universe (all angles they remember) when they look at one object -they are anchoring/connecting that single point of interest to everything else they know/remember. This is the safest and most scientific view. But I hate it. And I am not good at it.

NeTi persons look at the object then disintegrate it/dissect it into small pieces using memorized disintegration algorithms) and then they talk about the interrelations between the disintegrated pieces to explain their understanding of the object of interest.

I am finally thinking about the functions from a non-clown perspective. Takes time.

Will come back with many questions and ideas.

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I think NiTe persons look from a universal point of view, they are taking the view of the universe (all angles they remember) when they look at one object -they are anchoring/connecting that single point of interest to everything else they know/remember. This is the safest and most scientific view. But I hate it. And I am not good at it.

NeTi persons look at the object then disintegrate it/dissect it into small pieces using memorized disintegration algorithms) and then they talk about the interrelations between the disintegrated pieces to explain their understanding of the object of interest.

I am finally thinking about the functions from a non-clown perspective. Takes time.

Will come back with many questions and ideas.
So both are converging but on different scales,
macroscopic(rough/general) vs. microscopic(precise/specific ).

Last edited by Vibration; 27/05/2008 at 12:45 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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  #35  
Old 27/05/2008, 07:23 AM
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its hard to say.... the pics dont give the best angles possible but i'd have to guess you're an..........istp
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  #36  
Old 27/05/2008, 03:56 PM
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I doubt I'll be able to answer your questions, Vibration (unless they're about something I understand), but I'll look forward to your ideas.

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So both are converging but on different scales,
macroscopic(rough/general) vs. microscopic(precise/specific ).
Could you give an example, by any chance?

Last edited by Kanerou; 27/05/2008 at 03:56 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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  #37  
Old 27/05/2008, 06:52 PM
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OK, this is a triple-post. *smiles in a pacifying manner at the powers that be* I have a reason for it...really.

First of all, it's official: my stepfather is ENTj. We also discovered some of the problems we've been having, like his Te/Ti attitude versus my Ti/Te and his emphasis on efficiency (which is much weaker in me). Also, we have [Fe] issues, like when I say something and he replies with an answer that makes me feel like I'm being criticized or attacked. It's also possible that my little brother is not _S_p at all, but in fact an ENTj (my stepdad sees my brother as a carbon copy of himself). That explains so many things. . Another issue my dad and I have is when I've been somewhere and he asks me how many people were there. I always tell him I don't know. So he tells me give him a rough estimate, and I tell him, "I don't know!" I really don't know and wasn't paying attention, and I doubt my ability to accurately estimate. That said, I'm not always that anal about such things. It depends.

OK. My take on my function attitudes. It's not complete, but this is where boredom struck.

Doing N together, since I'm having a hard time separating the two.

N - I imagine myself in certain scenarios, I imagine myself saying things (earlier, I thought over what I was going to say in this). I think about whether I'll regret something in the future, sometimes. I don't like to go at certain things without a plan, but I don't think that's the norm for me. It depends. My memory is rather hazy; I generally have impressions of something. I'm bad about generalizing and making assumptions. I may make plans, but that doesn't mean I'll stick to them. If I'm supposed to be somewhere at a certain time, I generally try to shave it as close as possible.

Se - I am assertive at times, and I feel good about myself when I am. However, if it's "making waves" that is necessary, I would rather someone else did it. If I am concerned about offending someone and I actually care what that person thinks of me, then I will shrink back. I was more aggressive/physical as a teenager, but I've backed off of that (it was a way of venting anger or irritation). That said, I encountered some physical abuse as a child. My ST friend tried to get a [Se] rise out of me more than once, and I held it in, as it's not something I prefer to do anymore. However, it comes out here and there. It's probably verbal more often than physical (so maybe [Fe]?).

Si - I am aesthetic, and I love comfort; however, if it takes much work, I'm generally too lazy and too busy doing what I want to see that it gets done. I'd rather leave that to the [Si] creatives in our household - my mother and (possibly) little sister. I prefer a clean house, clean room, etc, but if it requires much effort, it's not gonna get done unless someone practices some [Se] on me. I am a creature of habit, but I don't like to be tied down to that habit by obligation. I want the choice to keep choosing it.

Te - I'm certainly not Te-leading. That's my stepdad. I do consider efficiency sometimes, but not to the extent he does. My Ti is higher than his.

Ti - I enjoy systems; on one end, I love what Tolkien did with his "world"; he truly made it a world. On the other end, I greatly enjoy Christian apologetics, more than I do the religious end of it, admittedly. I like to have proof for what I believe, even if I'm generally too lazy to actively search for it. When I write, I come up with profiles, back-story, etc. It's not enough to just write the story. In fact, I tend to get so bogged down with this that between it and revising, my stories don't really go forward.

Fe - I have some passions, but I tend to be indifferent to many other things. I am much less enthusiastic than I used to be, I think. That said, I have internalized energy that is frankly painful at times, so that's likely where it's gone.

Fi - I care about harmony in the household, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy good-natured insults flying and verbal sparring. I do crack jokes and purposely irritate people because I think it's fun. I'm not usually out to really hurt people, though I admit that I can sometimes be pretty mean, even if other people can't see my real motive. I have a tendency to say things to get a certain reaction out of people or to say things despite the possible reaction they'll have. If I have held bad feelings about someone over something and find out I was wrong, I feel absolutely horrible about it. Very horrible.

F/T confusion: In another personality system, I come out combining the least rational, most emotional of the seven gifts/types with the most rational, least emotional of the seven. So I may have traits of both.
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  #38  
Old 27/05/2008, 08:25 PM
Vibration Vibration is offline
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I doubt I'll be able to answer your questions, Vibration (unless they're about something I understand), but I'll look forward to your ideas.



Could you give an example, by any chance?
It is not general, but at least it seems to me as if when INTps study an object, say a city on earth, they will initially see the helicopter view (some clusters of houses some parks some squares etc). They will then relate that picture to the nearest cities surrounding it. Heck they immediately start to relate all cities on the planet in order to "really" understand that particular city of interest. Heck they dont even hesitate to space out and try to see all cities from the moon. Heck they they have no problems forgetting about that stupid little city and studying our solar system from a view point of the milky way... This my understanding of it. Weird enough, this kind of thinking makes sense actually. It is general thinking on a macroscopic level.

Instead of a city let us take Socionics as an example: These INTp guys are only interested in all types observations of all the types, not the underlying explanation or root causes that explain the generation of those types in the first place(the roads in the city). Oh NO! They want to relate the descriptions (the only type evidence we got so far) with philosophy, with religion, with politics with peotry with novels ..you name it in order to understand the timeless perspective on human history before now and forever! And if you ask me, I would not be surprised if they also would like to relate that understanding to their understanding of cities.. They are integrators simply. They want to unite the universe.

I said once before that INTps are telescopes and INTjs are microscopes, it is the same tool but viewed from different sides. If you look at your friend through a microscope and your friend looks back at you from the other side of the microscope, you wont really see eachother(you might be looking at one of the pimples of your friend and your friend sees you as an upside down small dot far away. I guess it is a cheap explanation why INTps and INTj dont understand echother...

I guess when you read the above you probably predicted that: INTjs are interested in the inner working of that particular city(the roads, the tunnels, the apartments, electricity/ water supply etc)... INTjs are interested in the inner workings of Socionics(the root cause for the observe d behaviour of types). General thinking on a microscopic level.

Re converging I think all types converge in the sense that they know more with time. If you know more you see sharper -you become more focused.

Feel free to comment. It is only ideas that I have from understanding people discussing on forums. Facts are neeed to support them.
I could describe it in a different way. No, ask Prom! Haha!
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  #39  
Old 27/05/2008, 08:33 PM
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*grins* I would've commented anyway, but thanks for letting me know you're open to it. I don't quite understand the NiTe point of view, but I understand the TiNe. My father (the ENTj) has a tendency to relate things; an efficiency thing, perhaps? For example, he won't read something if he doesn't see how it will apply to his life. When I told him about Socionics, he wasn't interested until he saw the practical application and its being practiceable. So I suppose he might be the "big picture" type. I understand it from his point of view.
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  #40  
Old 27/05/2008, 08:44 PM
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@vibe, i'm not saying this is right, but it's certainly possible if not plausable.

The difference in understanding between INTj and INTp is the use of the logic.

Te looks to apply the information in a practical sense. In some instances it is known as a 'business' logic, although I have some reservations bout that. Basically it looks to pull information together logically in a way that works, as long as it works and it logically works then that is fine.

Ti looks to understand the rules of the system. It looks to create 'static' rules that remain pretty much constant and so can be applied in a consistent structural understanding.

So Ti builds from the bottom up, and Te will build from the top down.

Can you see how that would impact on at least logico aspect the INTl/INTp approach?
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