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  #81  
Old 05/02/2006, 09:27 PM
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Default Re: What is Time?

I feel my self frightened when I see how much INTjs take things with their . We are much more than our First function and advanceing only one side of our personality makes us one-sided. Personality is much more than what we feel by our first two functions. One must learn to see how much else there is in us. And to grow one with the different and contrary parts of our personality. To become into transcendent function. Also not to identify one-self with the four aspects of functions.To be in the cetner of the conciousness and unconciousness. This is how I understand the process of individuation. The individuation is the center of the Jung's teachings. Not all people start individualisation and not all of us need it, but for the some people it is the most higher ideal there is.

This is something I needed to say.
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  #82  
Old 06/02/2006, 01:39 AM
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Default Re: What is Time?

From what I have read of Jung(which is fairly scattered) he claimed to be an "empiricist" Although that doesn't necessarily mean everything he wrote was empirical, it does throw some light on his approach. His conclusions were based upon observation, not mysticism, they were based upon what he believed to be educated conclusions.

If you want to understand what time is my best advice to someone who wants to make their personal definition understandable they should look at the clock on their wall and realize that all time is is a cirlcle with an arrow spinning in a consistent speed past hash marks an equal distance apart. It is the passage from one segment to another. That is an ordered passage from one moment to the next.

You could take the approach that each moment is infinite because time can be broken down as so, but that doesn't really work in day-to-day life.

I'm not sure what "time is being" is arguing about. If he is claiming that the truest perception of time is a mostly unconscious mental process which doesn't try to synthetically break things down into little pieces, i can see what you mean(you just have to experience) but then you lose all meaning in everything. Personally, time just looks like equally segmented cyclical process which can best be represented as a clock.
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  #83  
Old 06/02/2006, 02:10 AM
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Default Re: What is Time?

Quote:
Originally posted by Epic:

If you want to understand what time is my best advice to someone who wants to make their personal definition understandable they should look at the clock on their wall and realize that all time is is a cirlcle with an arrow spinning in a consistent speed past hash marks an equal distance apart. It is the passage from one segment to another. That is an ordered passage from one moment to the next.
So simple! So if we want to stop the time we stop all clocks and if we want to go back in time we just make them run backwards. Ingenious!

Let me make my point again. Time is duration. You cannot turn back time in the same way you cannot make duration negative in the same way you cannot make distance negative in the same way you cannot make volume that is bigger on the inside than on outside.
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  #84  
Old 06/02/2006, 02:23 AM
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Default Re: What is Time?

That is absolutely not my point. What I mean is when you speak of duration, you are speaking of duration, not time. If you have a clock that tells you what time it is, it does not tell you the duration, the clock tells you the time. Right now my clock says 8:20. That is my measure of time, and who is to say it is right or wrong? it works for me, that's all that matters. Now if you talk about duration you are talking about many things. You can have many clocks saying many times during that duration, and you can have a master clock, and that master clock can tell you what time all those separate times are happening in. I don't think that time IS duration, time is only a measure of duration when you record a clock existing in a state at one point, and then another.

I want to add that when you ask someone what time it is you aren't asking duration, you are asking what "state" or position the "hand" on the clock is. Duration only happend when you put two times together.
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  #85  
Old 06/02/2006, 02:29 AM
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Default Re: What is Time?

Quote:
Originally posted by Epic:
That is absolutely not my point. What I mean is when you speak of duration, you are speaking of duration, not time. If you have a clock that tells you what time it is, it does not tell you the duration, the clock tells you the time. Right now my clock says 8:20. That is my measure of time, and who is to say it is right or wrong? it works for me, that's all that matters. Now if you talk about duration you are talking about many things. You can have many clocks saying many times during that duration, and you can have a master clock, and that master clock can tell you what time all those separate times are happening in. I don't think that time IS duration, time is only a measure of duration when you record a clock existing in a state at one point, and then another.
Waaaaaait a second. When you say it is 8:20 you know that it is 8:20 today not tomorrow or yesterday and you also know that it is 8:20 in the year 2006 and not 2005 or 2007. So if you make an effort and say the time in full you end up with the duration from... (I have already made this point earlier in the thread).
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  #86  
Old 06/02/2006, 02:29 AM
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Default Re: What is Time?

Quote:
Originally posted by SG:
[QB]
Quote:
Originally posted by Epic:

If you want to understand what time is my best advice to someone who wants to make their personal definition understandable they should look at the clock on their wall and realize that all time is is a cirlcle with an arrow spinning in a consistent speed past hash marks an equal distance apart. It is the passage from one segment to another. That is an ordered passage from one moment to the next.
So simple! So if we want to stop the time we stop all clocks and if we want to go back in time we just make them run backwards. Ingenious!


I don't think the idea was meant literally, S-or were you just extending the metaphor?
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  #87  
Old 06/02/2006, 02:32 AM
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Default Re: What is Time?

Quote:
Originally posted by SG:
Waaaaaait a second. When you say it is 8:20 you know that it is 8:20 today not tomorrow or yesterday and you also know that it is 8:20 in the year 2006 and not 2005 or 2007. So if you make an effort and say the time in full you end up with the duration from... (I have already made this point earlier in the thread).
But that only happens because I am consciously manipulating multiple "times" or "frames of reference" I think that time is the building block of duration, but it is not duration.
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  #88  
Old 06/02/2006, 02:41 AM
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Default Re: What is Time?

You mean t-i-m-e as a word, then it is just a name given to a procedure for counting the duration of a sample process.
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  #89  
Old 06/02/2006, 02:55 AM
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Default Re: What is Time?

People do use "time" in alot of ways. Such as "hey dude, what time is it? " or "yo, homeslice, how much time we got?" or "ay mate, do you think that we can do this 'in time'?" So there are alot of contexts we can see time in. Now what we would have to do is come to a resolution as to what this word is referring to. Now I don't see any way of establishing a "universal time" unless you isolate a bunch of other processes underneath an individuated canopy. One clock that we assign all the others under.

So you could have an "earth time(which must have a clock, literally) but in "earth time" there are also separate "time zones(which also must literally have their own clocks)" also, when I look at a clock on my wall it is in my past, not my future, not my present. The "time" only exists in the clock on the wall, it does not exist in me, it exists in the clock.

I guess if you look at Ni as an internal "process" then looking at my definition it could be analogous to time.

Time is only relative to a process. To find duration you have to subtract the second time from the first time(if you assume it is not "decaying/reversing(is this possible?)" But it is always relative to a process, like a clock. You assume the clock is always consistent in its behavior(moving the hand in a circle). But usually things aren't consistent in their behavior. They probably never are.
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  #90  
Old 06/02/2006, 08:12 AM
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Default Re: What is Time?

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Originally posted by time is being:
Quote:
Originally posted by Nyx:
But again, we have no way of checking how close to the initial understanding a conclusion is, because we have no way of quantifying it. We can only produce copies of copies of copies of something that may or may not exist.
a person can check by looking for him/herself. if i say "time is being", one can look at time and determine how accurate it is. perhaps a more insightful, intuitive understanding is possible than what i have given. determining if something exists or not is trickier. are physicists lost in fantasy when advocating string theory, or other theories that cannot be observed by sense? is mathematics a creation of the mind, or does it exist? what is the role of consciousness in the unfolding of physical reality? jury is out on this one for the time being
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  #91  
Old 06/02/2006, 08:42 AM
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Default Re: What is Time?

If time is being, then time cannot exist outside of being and being cannot exist outside of time. Since we are able to observe, measure and quantify time and being (as opposed to the highly abstract and sometimes disturbing concept of non-being), they must at least to some degree obey the laws of physics, logic, and rationale-we are pretty sure that clocks won't start running backwards, or that the length of day and night will suddenly cease to change, without some underlying cause, we can predict the direction and the outcome of an event based on specific data. Which means we do not necessarily need the unconscious to comprehend it. Physicists attempt to theorize based on evidence obtained from other logical exercises, experiments or observation. Mathemetics can be applied to real situations, and do not require transcending consciousness to understand.
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  #92  
Old 06/02/2006, 11:15 AM
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Default Re: What is Time?

That's why I think that can't be called exclusively intuition of time, because if you do that then you have to include in the concept of time as well.
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  #93  
Old 04/06/2008, 04:13 AM
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Arrow Temporary Temporality

δt = (ih)/(2πδE) = δt'/γ + (vδx)/(c^2) => 'time' can also be 'emit' backwards (and since emission is with regards to energy, this verifies the originally stated uncertainty relation) => time is what makes positrons (+) and electrons (-) different; one travels backwards in time, the other forwards, but which is which?

*In MBTT electrons are (+) and positrons are (-)

Last edited by IntjWurm; 04/06/2008 at 04:22 AM.
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  #94  
Old 04/06/2008, 04:16 AM
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δt = (ih)/(2πδE) = δt'/γ + (vδx)/(c^2)
no, seriously?? that is what it is?
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  #95  
Old 04/06/2008, 04:26 AM
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Arrow Temporality Time

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Originally Posted by kensi View Post
no, seriously?? that is what it is?
The first is the amount of time that a particle of certain energy δE can exist after spontaneously forming from the vacuum of space, the second is the time you think an observer must see you experience as he travels by you at nearly the speed of light v (he really doesn't as this is a mutually perceived relativistic illusion).

Last edited by IntjWurm; 04/06/2008 at 04:36 AM.
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  #96  
Old 04/06/2008, 04:42 AM
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Originally Posted by IntjWurm View Post
The first is the amount of time that a particle of certain energy δE can exist after spontaneously forming from the vacuum of space, the second is the time you think an observer must see you experience as he travels by you at nearly the speed of light v (he really doesn't as this is a mutually perceived relativistic illusion).
cool.
i thought it was T=D/V lol

i unfortunately flunked grade 12 physics of all things.
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  #97  
Old 04/06/2008, 04:50 AM
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Arrow Relativistic Mechanics

Quote:
Originally Posted by kensi View Post
cool.
i thought it was T=D/V lol

i unfortunately flunked grade 12 physics of all things.
Classical mechanics was a failure anyway - if you replace D with V squared and V with C squared, subtract that from 1, and then take the square root of the whole thing, you get gamma, which is a variable in the equation you were asking about (you can also replace x in that equation with D to keep things simple).

Last edited by IntjWurm; 04/06/2008 at 04:58 AM. Reason: *Gamma is known as the 'Lorentz Factor'!
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