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  #81  
Old 14/10/2009, 08:52 PM
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What's the reason to believe Cyclops is Si and not Ne except common acceptance? It is obvious in your mind, but not for me.
1. His test results.
2. His self-descriptions of his typical behaviour which indicates IP temperament. I no of know indications of extraversion and/or EP temperament.
3. His manifestations of Te creative behaviour and attitudes.
4. The fact that the above points and everything else we know about him fits much better with SLI than with your hypotheses. When the empirical evidence points clearly in one particular direction, which it does in this case, and everything else fits nicely together, we can safely dismiss -- and we should dismiss -- any functional analysis based on a much more shaky and untrustworthy foundation suggestion some other type.

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Originally Posted by mihai_m
Cyclops always find new connections and ideas in old stuff, I watch his open threads, if you know how SLIs are you know what I'm talking about - they're skeptical things can be seen from so radically different POVs. Basically the opposite through this aspect.
That fact, if it is a fact, can have various explanations, and even if we assume that ego would be the simplest or even the best explanation for that phenomenon, it certainly cannot and should not override the points I listed above.

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Originally Posted by mihai_m
Check the basis, Prometheus, I can't tell you he's definitely Ne or you're wrong, but let's keep accurate, ok?
Last time I saw you comment on my type you stated that you thought (rather strongly if I remember correctly) that I am an IEE. If you can be so blatantly wrong about my type, maybe you see something similar in Cyclops as you see in my posts, which makes you mistype Cyclops for similar reasons as those making you mistype me. I have no idea what that illusion of yours consists in exactly, but it is definitely there.
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  #82  
Old 14/10/2009, 10:35 PM
king king is offline
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1. His test results.
2. His self-descriptions of his typical behaviour which indicates IP temperament. I no of know indications of extraversion and/or EP temperament.
3. His manifestations of Te creative behaviour and attitudes.
4. The fact that the above points and everything else we know about him fits much better with SLI than with your hypotheses. When the empirical evidence points clearly in one particular direction, which it does in this case, and everything else fits nicely together, we can safely dismiss -- and we should dismiss -- any functional analysis based on a much more shaky and untrustworthy foundation suggestion some other type.
cannot argue with points 1 and 2. How does point 3 manifest itself.

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Originally Posted by Prometheus View Post
That fact, if it is a fact, can have various explanations, and even if we assume that ego would be the simplest or even the best explanation for that phenomenon, it certainly cannot and should not override the points I listed above.
There is something about Cyclops that does/did suggest ILE to me. I have a feeling that perhaps when we are indulging our fifth function we can resemble our semi-duals. Cyclops appears to have reasonably strong Ne compared compared to the general population, however if it is weaker than his Si, he should know this himself. I have a suspician that this whole playing round with Alpha NT was a way of escaping the SLI stereotype of being some kind of carpenter and allowing himself an opportunity to gain some intellectual vailidation. Now that he's returned to being SLI and everyone has patted him on the back and congratulated him on his ability to think abstractly, we can probabaly say - Yes Prom, you were right all along, but maybe...just maybe sometimes the journey is more important than the destination.

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Last time I saw you comment on my type you stated that you thought (rather strongly if I remember correctly) that I am an IEE. If you can be so blatantly wrong about my type, maybe you see something similar in Cyclops as you see in my posts, which makes you mistype Cyclops for similar reasons as those making you mistype me. I have no idea what that illusion of yours consists in exactly, but it is definitely there.
Random question, have you read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance?
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  #83  
Old 15/10/2009, 12:09 AM
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Random question, have you read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance?
I don't immediately see the connection, so I'm interested in knowing why you ask. My answer is: Yes, I've read it maybe 7-8 times or so (and Lila too of course, but not as many times); I wrote a university essay about it in 1992.
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  #84  
Old 15/10/2009, 12:36 AM
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I don't immediately see the connection, so I'm interested in knowing why you ask. My answer is: Yes, I've read it maybe 7-8 times or so (and Lila too of course, but not as many times); I wrote a university essay about it in 1992.
Oh I've just started to read it and well I know that you're also known as Phaedrus. I suppose it wasn't really related to that quote, but it sort of reminded me of the book. Anyway it looks really good, I'd like to maybe talk to you about it after I've read some more?

Thinking about it a bit more the reason the quote reminded me of ZATAOMM, was (and please bear in mind I've only read 20 odd pages and the introduction) that the narrator seems SLI'ish to me at this stage and Sylvia IEE and possibly the same for John Sutherland??

Now from my understanding of the book (please see previous brackets) that the narrator has some kind of split personality. One which is concerned with interpersonal human relations and another called Phaedrus who is concerned with a kind of pragmatic truth, based on the concept of 'quality' and that this idea of quality overides everything else (I kind of just got this from the introduction and wikipedia). Anyway from your other pseudonym and your general style I assumed that you related to this charactor. I think the suggestion of you being IEE, sparked something in my head about change or something. Anyway as I said I'd like to discuss it further if thats ok*, perhaps when I've read some more?

The book, not the suggestion of you being IEE.
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  #85  
Old 15/10/2009, 01:28 AM
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Anyway it looks really good, I'd like to maybe talk to you about it after I've read some more?
Some people seem to lose interest in the book before they have read the first 100 pages or so, after which it really becomes interesting. We'll see what you think when you reach that point and further.
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  #86  
Old 15/10/2009, 07:04 AM
mihai_m mihai_m is offline
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Originally Posted by Prometheus View Post
1. His test results.
2. His self-descriptions of his typical behaviour which indicates IP temperament. I no of know indications of extraversion and/or EP temperament.
3. His manifestations of Te creative behaviour and attitudes.
4. The fact that the above points and everything else we know about him fits much better with SLI than with your hypotheses. When the empirical evidence points clearly in one particular direction, which it does in this case, and everything else fits nicely together, we can safely dismiss -- and we should dismiss -- any functional analysis based on a much more shaky and untrustworthy foundation suggestion some other type.
Except point one (thing I objected about already) you could also "demonstrate" in the same manner that Cyclops is a bear. What you wrote there is no proof. "Indicates", "manifestations of Te creative", "fits much better" - can't you see how ridiculous you are? Those are no points, they're just bare assertions.
His case is pretty difficult, although from that to conclusions it's a long way.
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Originally Posted by Prometheus View Post
Last time I saw you comment on my type you stated that you thought (rather strongly if I remember correctly) that I am an IEE. If you can be so blatantly wrong about my type, maybe you see something similar in Cyclops as you see in my posts, which makes you mistype Cyclops for similar reasons as those making you mistype me. I have no idea what that illusion of yours consists in exactly, but it is definitely there.
Your supposition is wrong, I didn't type you because the similarities between you, and I also don't use this mass labeling. This is that Fi "hidden intentions" that I talked about numerous times, I'm glad that you don't loose the buoy.

You two have different personalities but that doesn't mean you can't be the same type. About Cyclops I have doubts, but about you I am certain. ILI is the worst guess, excepting SEI, IEI, and SLI, I found this idea ridiculous from the moment zero.
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  #87  
Old 15/10/2009, 11:02 AM
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Except point one (thing I objected about already) you could also "demonstrate" in the same manner that Cyclops is a bear. What you wrote there is no proof. "Indicates", "manifestations of Te creative", "fits much better" - can't you see how ridiculous you are? Those are no points, they're just bare assertions.
They are assertions, and they seem to be true. Your functional analyses contradict Cyclops's test results and almost everything else we know about him as a person based on how he has described himself and what he identifies with. My assertions about his type fits the empirical evidence -- that's the main important difference between your stand and mine. If anyone of us is ridiculous in his type assertions here, it is definitely you, not me.

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Originally Posted by mihai_m
His case is pretty difficult, although from that to conclusions it's a long way.
Cyclops's case is pretty simple, because we have no loose ends. Everything fits, there are no important pieces of information that points in clearly different type directions. SLI is, and has always been since he first posted on this forum, his most likely type. To claim that Cyclops is most likely ILE or IEE, you have to assume that he is totally deluded when he describes himself and tries to determine his own type.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mihai_m
Your supposition is wrong, I didn't type you because the similarities between you, and I also don't use this mass labeling. This is that Fi "hidden intentions" that I talked about numerous times, I'm glad that you don't loose the buoy.
What you actually base your typing of me on is totally irrelevant. The fact is that you are making false and ridiculous claims about what my type is, and that fact makes you an incomptent fool. It would be much easier and much more fruitful to discuss things with you if you could just accept the indisputable and basic facts. If you insist on disputing my type, you deserve no respect as a socionist whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by mihai_m
You two have different personalities but that doesn't mean you can't be the same type. About Cyclops I have doubts, but about you I am certain. ILI is the worst guess, excepting SEI, IEI, and SLI, I found this idea ridiculous from the moment zero.
You are proving my point. Without the slightest of doubt you are a complete idiot.
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  #88  
Old 17/10/2009, 05:54 PM
mihai_m mihai_m is offline
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You are proving my point. Without the slightest of doubt you are a complete idiot.
LOL! Whatever, you're an indisputable fact.
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  #89  
Old 17/10/2009, 06:21 PM
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LOL! Whatever, you're an indisputable fact.
Good that you admit that you are an idiot. By accepting reality you are in a better situation to change your false views.
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  #90  
Old 17/10/2009, 06:40 PM
mihai_m mihai_m is offline
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By accepting reality you are in a better situation to change your false views.
I agree. This view we have in common, although I don't think the attribute itself applies to you as well. You don't even consider an investigation in your knowledge level is necessary or useful.
This is perfectly plausible for a Judicious (against pretending or "proper" conduct) and Serious + Aristocratic (Give to Caesar the things that are Caesar's) - namely Delta.
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