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  #1  
Old 29/05/2010, 06:08 AM
jughead jughead is offline
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Default Anyone used socionics favorably? Hiring, Roomates etc

Wondering what your expiriences are. I suppose you go through the same processes then make the final decision of equal candidates, based on type relation.
Work would be a little more different etc.
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Old 29/05/2010, 07:40 AM
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Using socionics IRL is nothing like pretending to be e-socionics expert on the Internet. It's unforgiving, especially when you have to commit to house/flat sharing, relationship, etc. You can't just close the browser and make it go away LOL.
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Old 29/05/2010, 02:23 PM
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i find socionics a bit like pandora's box!
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Old 29/05/2010, 09:00 PM
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It's only useful for a partner, and a little bit of social awareness but not much else. An interviewer could not possibly type everyone that walks in the door for a chat.
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Old 29/05/2010, 09:54 PM
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I think socionics is very useful in terms of understanding why you just dont get along with certain people. It has come as somewhat of a comfort to me realizing that some people who had been extremely mean to me and didn't really care to understand me were actually in my opposing quadra and were SLE and LSI. Before I'd been beating myself up, trying to figure out what i'd done wrong. In other words, it helps me take things less personally than I usually do. I've also been able to counsel my friends and family members about such things as well. For example my mom's cousin is a pretty obvious SLE. My mom is a bit hard to type, but I think she is ESI. My mom always feels like her cousin is bullying her, and they have a lot of misunderstandings between them. So, now that i know socionics, I see exactly where the problem is: the cousin with Fi-POLR has absolutely no regard for people's feelings, and says things that deeply wound my mom, who despite all the strife cares deeply for the cousin because she's family.Anyway, i could analyze this much more in depth but i'm not going to at the moment. Just an example.

I also find socionics useful as i'm trying to find someone to date. . .I'd been out on a few dates since i learned socionics to a level i could implement it, and i've been able to type all those guys. If I didn't know socionics, I would have wasted time going for 2nd dates, 3rd dates even though I knew right off the bat they weren't what I was looking for, just to sort of give them a chance. It also helps that i know what being around my dual "feels" like from real life experience. I'm not necessarily looking for a dual, but anyone in my quadra would be nice. I can recognize others in my quadra pretty well at this point too.

My rule of thumb is that it's impossible to change people. So the next best thing is to understand them better, which I think socionics most definitely helps with.
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Old 29/05/2010, 10:39 PM
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hey sjy,
agreed, somewhat, at least on the first paragraph. in terms of dating, i've found it harder to apply socionics. case in point: istj once passed for istp lol. but maybe that's because my "system" has a few cracks or sth, who knows, who knows cheers
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Old 29/05/2010, 10:53 PM
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Has it helped me in any practical way? Not that I know of, but it helps me understand why person X can get along with person A and not person B, etc. and it's helped me to deal with certain people and forgive some of their differences. Basically, it's helped me be more tolerant and understanding.
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So this one time me an' my bes' frien' Stan, we went to a church service. That preacher was talkin' 'bout hell. So Stan leans over to me an' he says, "I bet hell is like a PoLR hit every day."

An' I says, "Stan, you prolly right."
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Old 30/05/2010, 12:35 AM
sjy sjy is offline
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Originally Posted by felafel View Post
hey sjy,
agreed, somewhat, at least on the first paragraph. in terms of dating, i've found it harder to apply socionics. case in point: istj once passed for istp lol. but maybe that's because my "system" has a few cracks or sth, who knows, who knows cheers
Well you do have a point there. . .I am constantly worried about mixing up ISTj and ISTp too because on the surface ISTj can have that stoneface (not always though). . .I haven't met either yet in my dating search though. I think that with ISTj they will do something sooner rather than later to offend me. Also I look for Fe-POLR for ISTp. Fe-POLR can only be SLI or ILI and i've known plenty of ILI's with that same Fe-POLR, and they have a distinct look that can't be put into words.

I'm really just finding it FUN to apply socionics to real life actually. to see why when there are a few of us together, why suddenly two of those people will become more chatty while others might get more quiet and awkward. Why my boss clashes with certain people while not with others.

The other benefit of it is, I'm starting to appreciate myself more even with all my embarrassing quirks because I now know that there are people out there who actually like that.

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Originally Posted by SG View Post
Using socionics IRL is nothing like pretending to be e-socionics expert on the Internet. It's unforgiving, especially when you have to commit to house/flat sharing, relationship, etc. You can't just close the browser and make it go away LOL.
But that's where flexibility comes in and the ability to admit that one's initial typing was wrong, and to change that typing if necessary. I know there've been some people's types i've revisted like 10 times, maybe retyped once or twice with new info and new perspective. Other people are more clear cut for no particular reason.

I love applying socionics to real life because you actually can observe more, get more information, and see your hypothesis tested again and again in the lab that is the world.

Last edited by sjy; 30/05/2010 at 12:35 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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  #9  
Old 30/05/2010, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Potato View Post
It's only useful for a partner, and a little bit of social awareness but not much else. An interviewer could not possibly type everyone that walks in the door for a chat.
Not much faith in VI I see.

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Originally Posted by sjy View Post

But that's where flexibility comes in and the ability to admit that one's initial typing was wrong, and to change that typing if necessary. I know there've been some people's types i've revisted like 10 times, maybe retyped once or twice with new info and new perspective. Other people are more clear cut for no particular reason.
You can admit all you want and change your mind as many times as you want but if you're stuck in incompatible relationship as the result of your wrong initial typing how is it going to help your current situation? Even if you know the intertype relations mechanics, you will still get hammered whether you want it or not.

Last edited by SG; 30/05/2010 at 06:17 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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  #10  
Old 30/05/2010, 06:55 AM
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LOL
I want as many dual, identical and mirror relations around as possible; duals to ask the hows and establish a healthy balance within and outside of me; identicals to talk to and get an ego boost, and mirrors to ask advise from.
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Old 30/05/2010, 01:41 PM
sjy sjy is offline
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Originally Posted by SG View Post
Not much faith in VI I see.



You can admit all you want and change your mind as many times as you want but if you're stuck in incompatible relationship as the result of your wrong initial typing how is it going to help your current situation? Even if you know the intertype relations mechanics, you will still get hammered whether you want it or not.
Oh well true. . .I was referring to just casual typing of people one knows. I guess if you're that close (i.e. in a relationship), it's pretty easy to get enough info to type someone pretty quick, so why be stuck? If you're with your conflictor or supervisor or other bad pairing, just break up!! Especially if you're getting hammered and things are manifesting! I know, easy for me to say. . .it's hard to do once you're in a relationship with that person.

But I agree, in that sense, online is easier. But hey, who said life was easy?? I feel that in a way socionics makes things easier.
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Old 30/05/2010, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by sjy View Post
Oh well true. . .I was referring to just casual typing of people one knows. I guess if you're that close (i.e. in a relationship), it's pretty easy to get enough info to type someone pretty quick, so why be stuck? If you're with your conflictor or supervisor or other bad pairing, just break up!! Especially if you're getting hammered and things are manifesting! I know, easy for me to say. . .it's hard to do once you're in a relationship with that person.

But I agree, in that sense, online is easier. But hey, who said life was easy?? I feel that in a way socionics makes things easier.
What I said does not only apply to predicting relationships with strangers. Even people that think they know each other and are going on holidays and have to stick close to each other for few weeks can have their relationships ruined at the end of the holiday because of incompatible types, I've seen this happen.
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Old 31/05/2010, 02:16 AM
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Originally Posted by jughead View Post
Wondering what your expiriences are. I suppose you go through the same processes then make the final decision of equal candidates, based on type relation.
Work would be a little more different etc.
Personally, I have found that having a general awareness of socionics to be both interesting and useful, however with these kind of situations, focusing on apparant socionic traits overides both instinct and experience.

If the person displays the qualities that you find desirable in a candidate, then socionics doesn't need to play a part. Trying to work out an individuals type, is just as time consuming as trying to work out whether the person would be suitable for whatever.

I could be argued that socionics helps fil in the gaps where we have imited information about someone, however again this is a risky venture, people adopt different persona's during interviews, and it can be hard to gauge their true charactor.
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Old 31/05/2010, 07:22 AM
Potato Potato is offline
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Originally Posted by sjy View Post
I think socionics is very useful in terms of understanding why you just dont get along with certain people. It has come as somewhat of a comfort to me realizing that some people who had been extremely mean to me and didn't really care to understand me were actually in my opposing quadra and were SLE and LSI. Before I'd been beating myself up, trying to figure out what i'd done wrong. In other words, it helps me take things less personally than I usually do. I've also been able to counsel my friends and family members about such things as well. For example my mom's cousin is a pretty obvious SLE.
I'm not sure I understand. What are the obvious characteristics of an SLE exactly?

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Not much faith in VI I see.
Little to none.

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Originally Posted by sjy View Post
But that's where flexibility comes in and the ability to admit that one's initial typing was wrong, and to change that typing if necessary. I know there've been some people's types i've revisted like 10 times, maybe retyped once or twice with new info and new perspective. Other people are more clear cut for no particular reason.
If a person's type is revisited more than once or twice, what legitimacy does socionics have as a theory?
How can people's types be obvious? Do you have an 'obvious characteristics' database to help to type the 'obvious ones'?
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Old 31/05/2010, 07:34 AM
natemaldonado natemaldonado is offline
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I like this guy.
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  #16  
Old 01/06/2010, 04:45 AM
sjy sjy is offline
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I'm not sure I understand. What are the obvious characteristics of an SLE exactly?
The obvious characteristics of my mom's cousin being SLE:

--completely Fi-POLR (e.g. says inappropriate things that hurt people, without giving much care, thought, or remorse to it).
--very competitive
--very jealous (e.g. regarding others' achievements, not relationships)



Quote:
If a person's type is revisited more than once or twice, what legitimacy does socionics have as a theory?
How can people's types be obvious? Do you have an 'obvious characteristics' database to help to type the 'obvious ones'?
The nature of socionics is such that the functions are not represented in one's actions per se, as by the motive and the thinking behind those actions. As such, to come up with an accurate typing requires a lot of information about that person, in various settings, interacting with different people. Sometimes, enough clues surface to make the typing more straightforward (i.e. obvious). Sometimes it takes a lot more info. Sometimes I just can't come up with a typing, even if i know a person well (e.g. my mother).

I think also people who have more experience typing people, thinking socionically, and seeing how the functions/types manifest, are able to recognize more "obvious" typings than those less experienced.

I dont think it's correct to say that such complexity takes away the legitimacy of socionics at all. It's like saying consideration of several different diagnoses and changing one's diagnosis based on more info takes away the legitimacy of medicine. Makes no sense at all. You sound like you have weak unvalued Ne, potato. Also valued Ti in favor of unvalued Te.

As far as a "database" of obvious characteristics. The issue is that each individual has nuances and descriptions in socionics are a matter of perspective. How a beta will describe another beta is going to be very different from how a delta will describe a beta, for example. How an EII describes an IEE is going to be different from how an SLI describes an IEE or how another IEE describes an IEE. You basically have to learn what the functions are and how to recognize them. How you best do that and go about the typing process heavily depends on your own type, so you have to develop your own way through practice and discussion.

Last edited by sjy; 01/06/2010 at 04:51 AM.
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  #17  
Old 01/06/2010, 12:29 PM
Potato Potato is offline
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Originally Posted by sjy View Post
The obvious characteristics of my mom's cousin being SLE:

--completely Fi-POLR (e.g. says inappropriate things that hurt people, without giving much care, thought, or remorse to it).
--very competitive
--very jealous (e.g. regarding others' achievements, not relationships)
How is it possible for other people to hold these characteristics and not be SLE when conclusions are made on their type the moment something like this surfaces?
Have you noticed all the things you listed are negative?

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Originally Posted by sjy View Post
The nature of socionics is such that the functions are not represented in one's actions per se, as by the motive and the thinking behind those actions. As such, to come up with an accurate typing requires a lot of information about that person, in various settings, interacting with different people.
True.

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Originally Posted by sjy View Post
Sometimes, enough clues surface to make the typing more straightforward (i.e. obvious). Sometimes it takes a lot more info. Sometimes I just can't come up with a typing, even if i know a person well (e.g. my mother).
I think also people who have more experience typing people, thinking socionically, and seeing how the functions/types manifest, are able to recognize more "obvious" typings than those less experienced.
Clues = database of obvious type characteristics? I cannot think of any other shortcuts.

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Originally Posted by sjy View Post
I dont think it's correct to say that such complexity takes away the legitimacy of socionics at all. It's like saying consideration of several different diagnoses and changing one's diagnosis based on more info takes away the legitimacy of medicine. Makes no sense at all.
What good is a doctor who changes his diagnoses on a regular basis? Better to get it done right the first time.

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Originally Posted by sjy View Post
You sound like you have weak unvalued Ne, potato. Also valued Ti in favor of unvalued Te.
Is this observation based off 'a lot of information about that person, in various settings, interacting with different people', or is it made because you do not like me? Is it coincidence that you placed me in your conflicting quadra as an ST while you are an NF?

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Originally Posted by sjy View Post
As far as a "database" of obvious characteristics. The issue is that each individual has nuances and descriptions in socionics are a matter of perspective. How a beta will describe another beta is going to be very different from how a delta will describe a beta, for example. How an EII describes an IEE is going to be different from how an SLI describes an IEE or how another IEE describes an IEE.
To wrap things up;

You then, as an IEE, percieve the SLE to hold the characteristics above? At the same time, these characteristics are cause enough to jump to a type conclusion. However, all characteristics listed are negative and are not owned by any one type specifically; given this, you may type anyone you specifically dislike as an SLE based on situations in which jealousy, hurtfulness or competition was being used.
To go further, you can say that any delta could type any beta by using negative qualities because it is a matter of perspective, which would also mean that deltas could describe deltas with positive 'obvious characteristics' because they would be percieved as positive by quadra mates.
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Old 01/06/2010, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Potato View Post
How is it possible for other people to hold these characteristics and not be SLE when conclusions are made on their type the moment something like this surfaces?
Have you noticed all the things you listed are negative?
How are those things negative? Projection. Notwithstanding the person replied with "obvious traits" not a full inventory.


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What good is a doctor who changes his diagnoses on a regular basis? Better to get it done right the first time.
You touched base on it earlier on, it's a theory, a personality theory, it's got nothing to do with diagnosing someone with eg cancer.


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Is this observation based off 'a lot of information about that person, in various settings, interacting with different people', or is it made because you do not like me? Is it coincidence that you placed me in your conflicting quadra as an ST while you are an NF?
I can't speak for this poster, but to me you come across like you are on steriods or something. I don't have an opinion on your type as yet.
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Old 01/06/2010, 01:32 PM
sjy sjy is offline
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Originally Posted by Potato View Post
How is it possible for other people to hold these characteristics and not be SLE when conclusions are made on their type the moment something like this surfaces?
Have you noticed all the things you listed are negative?
Only two types have Fi-POLR, and those are ILE and SLE. ILE's are not quite as competitive as SLE's are (they are but in a different way), and ILE's are not jealous (as far as I know).

All of those traits can be seen as negative or positive, it's a matter of perspective. Both my mother and I are Fi-valuing so yeah I see them as negative and I present them as such. It's socionics. If you cant handle the differences perhaps you shouldn't be indulging in it.

And like cyclops alluded to, my reasons for considering my mom's cousin as SLE are by far not an exhaustive list of SLE qualities. Those are just the clues that clinched my decision about her type, as i clarified here. I'm sorry if it came across meanly to you, I didn't mean it that way. I was trying to be factual in my Te-HA way.


Quote:
What good is a doctor who changes his diagnoses on a regular basis? Better to get it done right the first time.
In medicine, often one runs across symptoms that can look like several different diseases. Doctors come up with a list of possibilities, and narrow it down as information from testing comes in. Sure, the answer you give the patient should be right the first time, but this is the process. Similar with typing.


Quote:
Is this observation based off 'a lot of information about that person, in various settings, interacting with different people', or is it made because you do not like me? Is it coincidence that you placed me in your conflicting quadra as an ST while you are an NF?
I guess I did put you in my opposing quadra, didn't i. THe basis behind my clues to your type have nothing to do with my feelings towards you, as I have barely interacted with you and dont know you at all. I was going off of clues I noticed from your post. Why I said what i said:

not Ne-valuing--you dont see the value in something that requires consideration of various possibilities (you think that makes it lose credibility), and I can tell from multiiple things you said in your last two posts in this thread, that leaving things open to change bothers you quite a bit.

not Te-valuing--availability of more info about a person (i.e. more factual data) is not seen as valuable by you in in contributing to typing of a person.

Ti-valuing--things have to be internally consistent for you to consider something credible. If things have to change a lot, then by you, it's not credible.


Quote:
To go further, you can say that any delta could type any beta by using negative qualities because it is a matter of perspective, which would also mean that deltas could describe deltas with positive 'obvious characteristics' because they would be percieved as positive by quadra mates.
I never said that. See? Ti-valuing. You extrapolate what I stated, using your own internal logic. I present you the facts on which i based my conclusions about your quadra, above. I am Te-valuing. But I am also Ne-ego so I leave open the possibility that I am wrong and that I just dont have enough info about you.

And yes, as a delta, I do see deltas in a more positive light than betas, especially being Fi-ego too. But I acknowledge that it's just socionics at work. All types are valuable to society and I admire betas for things such as leadership, influence, strength, not being affected by interpersonal emotion, sure. When you need to get things done or changed, you better hope a beta is in charge, in particular a beta ST.
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Old 01/06/2010, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjy View Post
The obvious characteristics of my mom's cousin being SLE:

--completely Fi-POLR (e.g. says inappropriate things that hurt people, without giving much care, thought, or remorse to it).
--very competitive
--very jealous (e.g. regarding others' achievements, not relationships)
To elaborate a little from my experience (and to outline what in the above can be positive):
Fi-PoLR generally manifests as brutal honesty/bluntness, and a complete disregard for social norms. They are VERY competitive, and extremely goal-oriented. Though they are generally pretty laid back, they can be become intense and driven to achieve what they want to. Their competitiveness isn't about putting others down, though coupled with Fi-PoLR it sometimes seems that way, but about bettering themselves by overcoming obstacles and facing challenges.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Potato View Post
You then, as an IEE, percieve the SLE to hold the characteristics above? At the same time, these characteristics are cause enough to jump to a type conclusion. However, all characteristics listed are negative and are not owned by any one type specifically; given this, you may type anyone you specifically dislike as an SLE based on situations in which jealousy, hurtfulness or competition was being used.
To go further, you can say that any delta could type any beta by using negative qualities because it is a matter of perspective, which would also mean that deltas could describe deltas with positive 'obvious characteristics' because they would be percieved as positive by quadra mates.
I never said that. See? Ti-valuing. You extrapolate what I stated, using your own internal logic. I present you the facts on which i based my conclusions about your quadra, above. I am Te-valuing. But I am also Ne-ego so I leave open the possibility that I am wrong and that I just dont have enough info about you.
I fail to see how that is Ti-valuing, or what you presented as facts. Your "facts" are simply observed trends. Potato's "extrapolation of your meaning" wasn't logical at all, it was a slippery slope based on the following large assumptions about what you wrote: The three given characteristics are the only defining ones, that only SLEs have those characteristics, and that they are all inherently negative.

And sjy, please stop attributing every little thought to an information element. Ne-egos aren't the only type who can leave open the possibility of being wrong (actually, we can be downright stubborn ) and Te-valuers don't have a monopoly on facts and factually presented information. These things are loosely type-related at best.
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So this one time me an' my bes' frien' Stan, we went to a church service. That preacher was talkin' 'bout hell. So Stan leans over to me an' he says, "I bet hell is like a PoLR hit every day."

An' I says, "Stan, you prolly right."
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