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  #1  
Old 23/07/2011, 08:40 PM
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Default Utoeya shooter

Definitely E..j. Possibly ENFj from the pictures I've seen.
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  #2  
Old 24/07/2011, 04:41 PM
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With a sick . I wander, what made him to do like this? I haven't had a curiosity to follow the scandal. Then again, what are normality and reality anyway? I guess normality is a prison and reality needs to be understood as something like 11 dimensional self created wander.

But i still admire SGs talent. And heck, why am i talking like HIM?
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Old 24/07/2011, 05:53 PM
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Well, ENFjs could be real nuts when it comes to ideology. Of course you have to be an extremist to do what he did. The fact that he was shooting all those people in cold blood and the fact that he defends what he has done just shows he was doing it for a belief - Ni in this case.

I won't be surprised if there are accomplices. I don't think an ENFj would be able to plan and execute all that on his own without any help or guidance.
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Old 24/07/2011, 08:51 PM
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^socionics in crimonology

According to the media this guys been attacked by Muslims 8 times and spent the last few months on steroids. A grudge with aggression.

He has/had a blog about anti immigration. Talking about how police reports show all rapes in Oslo over the last 5 years have been committed by non European immigrants.

I can see an ENFj forming the belief of such an action. Juicing himself up on steroids, angry at the mainstream media not listening.

I wonder if his next move in prison is to write his own 'mein kampf'.

Those who visit him in prison to keep up his resolve (Ni needing Se)? will likely be his accomplices. But could an ENFj ask that they never visit? A belief in his own mind he sacrifices himself to the higher cause? (Ni for him)?

Last edited by Cyclops; 24/07/2011 at 09:00 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 24/07/2011, 10:41 PM
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Well, considering the fact that the deed wasn't carried out really professionally it would not surprise me if he acted alone. If you are able to read you can learn how to build a bomb on the Internet and allegedly some explosive devices didn't work. And if you plan such a thing for some time one would assume that you actually want to ensure that your bomb(s) do not only destroy buildings connected to the governing Labour Party but hit as many people in it as possible since they are "responsible for the mess", let alone to ensure that the bombs actually detonate. In this regard the attack in Oslo can hardly be called a success. As for the island shooting, one certainly doesn't need assistance or guidance if one intends to drive to a camp where nobody wears a weapon, doing a 360 degree rotational fire or something. So, basically, I don't think there was much to plan. Just how to build a bomb for this purpose and find out when the "right guys" are on the Island. That's it.

It is reported that this guy had links with right-wing extremists. If it's true that this guy has been attacked by Muslims 8 times one at least can imagine where his Anti-Muslim stance probably came from and why he might got in touch with right-wing extremists and was susceptible for their ideology. If not, one should find it out.

Don't wanna be a kill-joy, but I think that becoming susceptible for right-wing ideology and pursueing it basically shows that you got perfectly brainwashed due to some incidents and/or environment, finally not allowing any rational thoughts, so that he's now only defending what he was successfully told to believe in. I give you that some may be more prone to allow this shit being drummed into them, but then again don't underestimate environment.

Just my 2 cents. Today anyways ...

Last edited by Banter; 24/07/2011 at 10:48 PM.
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Old 25/07/2011, 04:32 PM
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Cause I have lot's of free time until next week, i'd like to follow this conversation. Specially since i can't study at the moment and need some attention.

So. Can someone give me an example of an ideology to see online, specially in youtube.

I think this guy also had some personal problems from the childhood. Being paranoid usually isn't just a mistake in one's head, but it has also roots in genetics, home and enviroment and god knows where. Perhaps in god spot in one's head, if there is one? It will be interesting to see the conversation over him.

And sorry for the syntax, i studied English ten years ago and haven't got any dictionary in my computer.
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Old 25/07/2011, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsb'07 View Post
Cause I have lot's of free time until next week, i'd like to follow this conversation. Specially since i can't study at the moment and need some attention.

So. Can someone give me an example of an ideology to see online, specially in youtube.

I think this guy also had some personal problems from the childhood. Being paranoid usually isn't just a mistake in one's head, but it has also roots in genetics, home and enviroment and god knows where. Perhaps in god spot in one's head, if there is one? It will be interesting to see the conversation over him.

And sorry for the syntax, i studied English ten years ago and haven't got any dictionary in my computer.
Well, an ideology in this context would be multiculturalism, neo-naziism.

All I can say is that you can't kill a dream, just look at MLK.

Violence is not the answer, and I reckon a sane ENFj would have known this.
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Old 26/07/2011, 06:59 AM
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I feel my self too uneducated, but isn't ideology something without the culuture can't exist. We need it. Only question is which sort of an ideology should dominate? We are believing beings.And despite the fact that i am not an educated enough to debate on how are we construated, ideology is deeply in us. (Faucal? Postmodernism? Any body wanting to explain them?) And one of the problems and also good sides of the west is that we can have pluralism. Is it an arriving into some sort of an end what the course of the west needed to evolve into, like it's it's destiny, since the beginning of the modernism? Or is it just an immorality compared to the greater values which humans should accept being intercultural and transcultural, we don'tknow. We have an ideology of freedom with the idea that respecting that, other ideologys can also exist. But the sad is that to conservative worldwievs the west is going back and retarding back stairs into unmoral. It is the oldest problem of the mankind probably- to see the unperfectness of the world and wanting to change it. Be it going back to the roots or believing in some better epoch of human kind to arise one day.

But i'm still anxious. So, can some intj so he's great abilities to critisise and analyse?
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Old 26/07/2011, 11:31 AM
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Attacked my Muslims 8+ times??? LOL that is just rubbish and no doubt it is his lawyer who is giving this a spin in his favour. It just doesn't hold. You get bullied in school so you kill as many politicians as you can because they do nothing about it? LMAO. Personal and political are 2 different things.
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Old 26/07/2011, 03:39 PM
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In here, we do have problems with different nations, but it's mostly with Russians. Only in couple of last years the Turkish have become to live here. It's good that we don't have Muslim problems yet. My sister lives in London actually and she knows how multicultural UK is. Perhaps UK really isn't UK any more. And most of the richer Europe also. It's not my problem at the moment when I have to be in loneliness and can't fix my self.

But you are right, I'm an annoying donkey! But it has it's roots in my past and in very young past. Most of my life I have suffered.
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Old 26/07/2011, 07:35 PM
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Attacked my Muslims 8+ times??? LOL that is just rubbish and no doubt it is his lawyer who is giving this a spin in his favour. It just doesn't hold. You get bullied in school so you kill as many politicians as you can because they do nothing about it? LMAO. Personal and political are 2 different things.
Hitler wrote mein kampf on the basis of his personal experiences, or so I'm told.

Woman couldn't get equal rights to men, she believes she should, suffragettes are born...

Personal experiences shape our views, views make politics, can't totally dismiss it as 2 different things.

I read today his lawyer is saying he thinks he's insane, but does not know yet if he will plead insanity. The Muslim thing came from the media.

Then, witnesses said that the police called out to him by name before they arrested him. How'd they know him? I'm taking the particulars about him with a pinch of salt for now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsb'07
I feel my self too uneducated, but isn't ideology something without the culuture can't exist. We need Only question is which sort of an ideology should dominate? We are believing beings.And despite the fact that i am not an educated enough to debate on how are we construated, ideology is deeply in us.(Faucal? Postmodernism?
You make an interesting point. We all have beliefs, I'd say even learning a fact is taking a belief. I wonder how could humans survive without a belief of some sort.
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Old 27/07/2011, 07:05 AM
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We don't actually know even what the truth is. And yet, we have schoolsystem what teaches us scientithically. I'm secular, so it's good that it's in west that way, but science has it's limits. Specially when it' wants to solve the basic problems of human life. Hapyness isn't a scientithic problem, but is one of the most important topics of the human life. Or let's take the psychology. What is life? It can't be measured, but yet the most important thing in psychotherapy is to cure the person.
Sad that i can't read enogh philosophy to argue with some expertiese.

But then this thing. Is the problem in UK so bad that Muslims already want the schoolsystem to be islaimic? No evolution. Only the Allah and he's created world whith it's fatality is right. And must be thought. Or let's get further. What happens when the schoolsystem gets multibelieving. What happends to society then? Specially if nonscientithic thought will be accepted already in kinderkarden.
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Old 27/07/2011, 10:23 AM
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Am I to understand that Hitler's hate for Jews came from personal experiences? Really?

BTW I don't understand why the shooter guy allows his lawyer to talk about insanity plea, it will completely undermine all his politically motivated efforts.
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Old 27/07/2011, 12:22 PM
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Hitler's hate for Jews is due to the need for putting the blame on someone.
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Old 27/07/2011, 07:52 PM
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Am I to understand that Hitler's hate for Jews came from personal experiences? Really?
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/adolf_hitler.htm

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Without work and without any means to support himself, Hitler, short of money lived in a doss house with tramps. He spent his time painting post cards which he hoped to sell and clearing pathways of snow. It was at this stage in his life - about 1908 - that he developed a hatred of the Jews. He was convinced that it was a Jewish professor that had rejected his art work; he became convinced that a Jewish doctor had been responsible for his motherís death; he cleared the snow-bound paths of beautiful town houses in Vienna where rich people lived and he became convinced that only Jews lived in these homes. By 1910, his mind had become warped and his hatred of the Jews - known as anti- Semitism - had become set. Hitler called his five years in Vienna "five years of hardship and misery". In his book called "Mein Kampf", Hitler made it clear that his time in Vienna was entirely the fault of the Jews- "I began to hate them".
Real or imagined, according to this it started with his own experiences.

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BTW I don't understand why the shooter guy allows his lawyer to talk about insanity plea, it will completely undermine all his politically motivated efforts.
The report was on BBC webpage, might still be there, as I recall the lawyer was speaking his personal opinion and not that of the client.

Side track: don't blame the lawyer, who'd want to represent him. Horrible events.
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Old 28/07/2011, 12:06 AM
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Neither in the Mein Kampf nor in any Nazi literature can one find accounts of Hitler having unpleasant encounters, frictions or quarrels with Jews; it looks like that Hitler had very few personal or social contacts with Jews. In 1939 Hitler personally permitted Dr. Bloch, an Jewish physician to emigrate from Austria. Dr. Bloc was the gentle physician who provided intensive care for of his ailing mother, and on several occasions Hitler expressed his gratitude. Another Jew, who played a positive role in Hitler's life was his World War I commanding officer, who recommended Hitler for the Iron Cross. It looks like the Jews were for Hitler and abstract depersonalized evil, an mythological evil like the devil in many religions, nobody ever experienced the devil but in eyes of the believers it is a reality.
http://kimel.net/hitjew.html

Let's not forget his secret Jewish girlfriend.
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Old 28/07/2011, 08:48 PM
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BTW I don't understand why the shooter guy allows his lawyer to talk about insanity plea, it will completely undermine all his politically motivated efforts.
I doubt he has. Maybe the lawyer just came up with it because it makes his job easier for him.
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Old 28/07/2011, 08:50 PM
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http://kimel.net/hitjew.html

Let's not forget his secret Jewish girlfriend.
I read through the link. Hitler was not anti-semitic. He moved to Vienna and couldn't afford to feed himself. He saw so many Jews with wealth, important positions. Personal experience contributed to him becoming anti-semitic.

It's like the student who campaigns for higher grants, then 20 years down the line he's a conservative (because he now doesn't want to pay taxes it affects him).

Quote:
In anti-Semitism Hitler found an explanation for his failures, a rationalization for his sufferings - the the single cause of his tensions and humiliation. Hitler adopted the crude simplistic outlook on life: the Jews are the source of all evil in this world. Hitler found a purpose in life, cleansing the German race from the clutches of the obsession, his creed, faith and religion.
If he hadn't been a looser in Vienna who would he have had to be jealous of?

Sure he may have developed anti-semitism through another channel (his interest in Darwinism).

As he said when he first started to explore anti-semitism

Quote:
For a few hellers (pennies) I bought the first anti-Semitic pamphlets of my life. Unfortunately, they all proceed from the supposition that in principle the reader knew or even understood the Jewish question to a certain degree. Besides, the tone for the most part was such that doubts again arose in me, due in part to the dull and amazingly unscientific argument.
.

Seems to me he was looking for a scapegoat, Darwinism and other stuff helped paint his belief.

Then, I'm no Hitler expert, so I could have this all wrong, ha.
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Old 28/07/2011, 09:30 PM
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Besides, developments like that usually have its roots in something (whatever it was in his case). Nobody is born like that. Just saying

"Best" are reactions from some of our conservative politicians who of course used this attack to heat up the sentiments and so didn't miss the opportunity to call for data retention NOW, IMMEDIATELY and so on. Surveillance, surveillance, surveillance. And some of them even think data retention would've prevented the attack from happening. How stupid can one be! They need to learn a lesson from the Norwegian prime minister!!!
...and LOL its always interesting to see what such an incident can create in some people so that one quickly calls for the death penalty and thinks this guy doesn't have any rights anymore. Well, you either live in a rule of law or you don't. You also can't be half pregnant. Just good that reasonable guys will speak the verdict and not the emotional driven mob (includes certain policians)!
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Old 29/07/2011, 10:49 PM
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What I really can't understand is why SG thinks personal and political are two different things.
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