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  #81  
Old 03/06/2008, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Vibration View Post
Adolf and Eve were identical:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ukJiBZ8_4k
I don't know.

Of note, it has been said that the longer you know your dual, the more your dual becomes like you and you like them.

what type is Mike Wallace ?
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  #82  
Old 03/06/2008, 11:59 PM
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I don't know.

Of note, it has been said that the longer you know your dual, the more your dual becomes like you and you like them.

what type is Mike Wallace ?
He looks like Peter OToole.
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  #83  
Old 04/06/2008, 08:28 PM
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maybe, if she was his dual, why would she care about any discrepancies the outer world caused her man, if she on a personal level valued what he stood for at least. Remember, we're talking about different times though.
I said that from my reading historical biographies of Hitler. Some historians speculate that he never even had sex with her (the evidence is fairly flimsy, I'll admit. Statements from domestic servants about their laundry!) A lot of historians think she was more of a 'trophy wife' that Hitler treated like a pet. In videos of them, she is being very playful and childlike and Hitler just ignores her. It's been quite a few years since I've studied this, however - A-Level history completely killed my enthusiasm for studying the Nazis.
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  #84  
Old 04/06/2008, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by pandapanda View Post
I said that from my reading historical biographies of Hitler. Some historians speculate that he never even had sex with her (the evidence is fairly flimsy, I'll admit. Statements from domestic servants about their laundry!) A lot of historians think she was more of a 'trophy wife' that Hitler treated like a pet. In videos of them, she is being very playful and childlike and Hitler just ignores her. It's been quite a few years since I've studied this, however - A-Level history completely killed my enthusiasm for studying the Nazis.
Maybe forget about what he was doing on the side....but was she not his choice ? You'd think you'd choose somebody within your own quadra but then again.....
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  #85  
Old 07/07/2008, 02:30 PM
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Default hitler

i think he wa an "estj"
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  #86  
Old 07/07/2008, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by IntjWurm View Post
E



E



E



S



S



S



S



F (accomodating)



F (accomodating)



F (accomodating)



F (egocentric)



F (egocentric)



F (egocentric)



F (egocentric)



P



P



P



P



P, with all of the faults to which megalomaniacal non-J would-be conquerors are prone; his immense power allowed subordinates to focus on J-type functions which he would incompetently presuppose



ESFP is described by the Keirsey Temperament Sorter as the 'Performer'

Hitler had a lot of charisma (E), and was very socially-focused (F) as you can tell by his overwhelming propaganda; he seemed to have a thirst for territory (S) and was known to make uninformed descisions (P) that caused his own generals to rebel. He didn't create fascism, (it was Mussolini's brainchild), he just popularized it in post-war Germany by giving loud speeches in the Beer Halls of Munich (something a performer would do) and trying to instigate a political coup there, for which he was sent to jail (where he wrote the theatrical Mein Kampf). This martyrdom marked the beginning of Adolf Hitler's political career.
the man who made the propaganda mashine was gopels "an entp"
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  #87  
Old 20/11/2008, 02:52 PM
O'Shea 6 O'Shea 6 is offline
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Default Hitler was a Psychopath

Attempting to assign some of Hitler's characteristics to a certain type rather than a particular mental illness could lead to error

Common characteristics of those with psychopathy are:
  • Grandiose sense of self-worth
  • Superficial charm
  • Criminal versatility
  • Reckless disregard for the safety of self or others
  • Impulse control problems
  • Irresponsibility
  • Inability to tolerate boredom
  • Pathological narcissism
  • Pathological lying
  • Shallow affect
  • Deceitfulness/manipulativeness
  • Aggressive or violent tendencies, repeated physical fights or assaults on others
  • Lack of empathy
  • Lack of remorse, indifferent to or rationalizes having hurt or mistreated others
  • A sense of extreme entitlement
  • Lack of or diminished levels of anxiety/nervousness and other emotions
  • Promiscuous sexual behavior, sexually deviant lifestyle
  • Poor judgment, failure to learn from experience
  • Lack of personal insight
  • Failure to follow any life plan
  • Abuse of drugs including alcohol
That list of characteristics describes Hitler more than any personality type. Bottom line - Adolf Hitler was a textbook psychopath. He also suffered from malignant narcissism.

I think he is a psychopathic INFP or ENFP. His meticulous attention to detail when it came to subordinates furthers my belief here. Because of his inability to manage and process small yet important details, he NEEDS subordinates who can do it flawlessly, especially in the business of running a country. This is why he held them to such a high standard. I am an ENFP and in a supervisory position. I do the same to my subordinates. Since my mind cannot manage small details and my ability to keep records and files is extremely poor then I need to surround myself with people who can in order to be successful. If they fail at this, then I become very annoyed because that's what I have them there for - to keep me straight while I focus on the big picture and the future. The same goes for following through with projects. Since this is another weakness of mine, I delegate projects to subordinates who are J's and I expect perfection! ENFPs are perfectionists. This is MY way of ensuring that my projects are followed through to completion. All the while, however, despite holding my employees to a very high standard (regarding the quality of their work), they are very content with their jobs and love working for me because I treat them with kindness and treat them like human beings. They view me as fair, even-tempered, and easy going on a personal level. Furthermore, they know that I care a great deal about their welfair and that I would doubtlessly be bedside if any of them ended up in the hospital.

I am an ENFP. I think Hitler was too. Only he was psychopathic...
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  #88  
Old 20/11/2008, 06:52 PM
O'Shea 6 O'Shea 6 is offline
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Default Change in opinion

I spent the evening reading about Hitler's life in depth to make sure I knew what I was talking about... I retract my previous comment. I am almost sure that he was an ENTP now. Still psychotic though... Probably a result of his childhood abuse. I don't think an ENFP, psychotic or not would ever stereotype an entire group of people, much less approve of their extermination.
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  #89  
Old 10/12/2009, 11:09 AM
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Yeah, why not.
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  #90  
Old 10/12/2009, 07:06 PM
ENTroP ENTroP is offline
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I would type Hitler as ISFJ. He was methodical, and very attuned to the world of art and music. However, he was too "mechanical" in his art, and was thus rejected artistically. He was DEFINITELY a feeler, and was able to confer his emotional states to those around him. The sensing makes sense, as he was not a very big picture kind of guy, which ended up costing him the war.

Others online agree with me. I'm basing this off of some stuff I've read.
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  #91  
Old 10/12/2009, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ENTroP View Post
He was DEFINITELY a feeler, and was able to confer his emotional states to those around him.
This would make him an Fe type, not an Fi type.
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So this one time me an' my bes' frien' Stan, we went to a church service. That preacher was talkin' 'bout hell. So Stan leans over to me an' he says, "I bet hell is like a PoLR hit every day."

An' I says, "Stan, you prolly right."
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  #92  
Old 11/12/2009, 01:48 AM
mihai_m mihai_m is offline
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I heard they unbanned a Philippe Mora documentary about Hitler's private life as a common [boogey]man, with shots made by his gf, Eva Braun.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070760/

I don't have the slightest doubt he was ENFj.
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  #93  
Old 20/12/2009, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by mihai_m View Post
I heard they unbanned a Philippe Mora documentary about Hitler's private life as a common [boogey]man, with shots made by his gf, Eva Braun.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070760/

I don't have the slightest doubt he was ENFj.
Have ordered the DVD.
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  #94  
Old 01/01/2010, 02:29 PM
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Watched the documentary and I have no idea. The only thing I'm sure after watching it that he was not ENFj. Eva Brown on the other hand looks like Fe Extrovert, but again not enough to go on.
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  #95  
Old 01/01/2010, 05:04 PM
mihai_m mihai_m is offline
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Do we at least agree he was a Rational type?

Things to consider:
- image and speeches details chosen with care - it is not important how you are, but what's your ideal, what you're trying to inculcate - Se/Ni;
- although a strategist, his attraction towards the glamour of the ideology made him ignore danger signs: harm other people, attract adversity - Beta or at least unvalued Ne;
- I think Delta should be dismissed because he'd despise requirements to not be himself or ideas of grandness - the way of modest regime leaders like Castro (ISTp, imo - do you have an opinion on his type?);
- he was genuinely happy when meeting children, youth and "his" people, he used to be broody and forget his sober attitude, looking rather like a mother overlooking her offspring - F;
- he found cruelty unbearably repulsive - although this is a Delta Ethical trait mainly, the fact that he did not care about it as long as he doesn't hear about it points to Fe rational, my experience tells me;
- repulsion towards "ugly" or "vulgar" things - again, Fe and rather rational for Hitler. Imo if you poll your relatives about different habits/culture, you'll probably be surprised (or not?) that the Fe types are the most vocal against such things like gypsies, immigrants with odd lifestyles, minarets, illiterate/uneducated people, and so on - in the same way of "A Christmas Carol" morals for Rationals. Fe/p feel invaded, Fe/j feel undermined.

I'm interested in what makes you dismiss ENFj, only VI or everything?
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  #96  
Old 02/01/2010, 02:30 AM
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Originally Posted by mihai_m View Post
Do we at least agree he was a Rational type?

Not really sure.


I'm interested in what makes you dismiss ENFj, only VI or everything?

No, I gave it a good thinking, not just the looks, but looks also don't fit.
Red .
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  #97  
Old 04/01/2010, 02:57 PM
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He reminds me of Prom. Don't know if that's type related. I don't mean mass murderer I mean the way of shouting and screaming their own viewpoint all the time and ruthless against those who don't accept it.

If this victim/aggressor thing is taken litterally in the sexual content, he had sexual liasons with his female cousin which would always end with him lying on the floor and she would urinate over him. Sounds like he want's to be secretly dominated, but then he'd always start it off by performing intimate examinations of her like a doctor/nurse/patient thing, so there's give and take with this sexual dominance thing, maybe he's in control all along, she was scared of him and only went along through fear. So he's into all that master and servant stuff in the bedroom and how he conducted his politics if you know about how he would execute people who opposed him and destroying the inferiors. So Beta/Gamma. Maybe he really is the same type as Prom if they can somehow both be INTp's, although Hitler has a lot of introverted qualities and I think that his shouting and bawling stuff sounds more like ISTj. His depressive attitude sounds like could be any type, but maybe more so ISTj as they really need someone to cheer them up by creating Fe. And he certainly seems to value Fe, but in a crude way, in the manner that he would try to create it himself in the way he would arouse the crowds, and his belief in the future of the world - talk about Ni HA.

Infact, he reminds me also of Ayn Rand the way they both are so forceful in their views. She's probably ISTj.

Hitler was nervous around those he saw as better than him. He wouldn't meet Churchillbecause he saw him as more intelligent, more educated and more capable of things than him. Major insecurity complex, but putting too much emphasis in comparison to Alpha/Delta on peoples status and what have you. So maybe he's ISFj.

Anyway here again just shows to me why it is pointless to type celebrities and famous people, no one can ever agree and as I said before, what is the point of typing people you can't interact with when there are plenty of real people in the world that you can do in order to type and learn about them.

Hitler isn't ENFj. Blair he is ENTp. And the beat goes on.....

So maybe he doesn't have a type because he's crazy. Nothing to say that everyone has a type. Maybe only some people do who aren't mentally damaged, or are just comparatively simple.

Of course, David Cameron is supposed to be an ISTp, but then, he is emotionally smooth which suggests good control of ethics. You watch him in Parliament question time and he runs rings round Gordon Brown, who seems the most obvious types out of them all which is INTp. He gets Brownincreasingly worked up, making digs at him which gets the MP's and the press and public laughing at Brown. Brown tries to respond with facts and Cameron just ridicules him as a person, Camerondoesn't use facts, so why isn'tCameron an ENFj supervising the INTpBrown?

Then, Camerons in a leadership role as leader of the opposition party, but apparently according to the profiles, ISTp's don't like leadership roles, even the talented are supposed to stay away from them. Yet he's ISTp?

So with all that, he could still be ISTp. Maybe it's his Etonian public school upbringing that makes David Cameron such a smooth people pleaser. The press see him as a duplicate of Tony Blair, yet if Tony Blair is ENFj then why does his conflictor seem like his identical?

Cameron seems like a Rodger Moore type of James Bond, the sort of educated English smoothy.

So how can we type any of these guys?

If you want to know anything about Hitler, then you should read Walter Langer's analysis of him. You see the US government asked the psychoanalysist to profile Hitler during WWII, and he did a Freudian analysis of him which accurately predicted a lot of his behaviour. You can read it or if you like watching documentaries, try to see if you can get a copy of this bbc production.

That way a proper analysis by a professional is done, instead of simply trying to describe him and other people through the inhibitions of socionics, like we all are with a few paragraphs, or even less.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mihai_m View Post
I heard they unbanned a Philippe Mora documentary about Hitler's private life as a common [boogey]man, with shots made by his gf, Eva Braun.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070760/

I don't have the slightest doubt he was ENFj.
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Originally Posted by SG View Post
Watched the documentary and I have no idea. The only thing I'm sure after watching it that he was not ENFj. Eva Brown on the other hand looks like Fe Extrovert, but again not enough to go on.
Two people sure of something, one the type he is, the other the type he's not. Is this enlightenment on the part of both of you that you have supreme knowledge that you don't share or something else? I've noticed that those who are so sure of something so complex are so often either genuises who know so much more than the rest or are ignorant of what they don't know, I think the latter is known with phrases such as the security of ignorance, or ignorance is bliss..

But then according to the profiles, ISTj's use common phrases, perhaps another example of the fallacy of typing.

Last edited by Cyclops; 04/01/2010 at 03:05 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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  #98  
Old 05/01/2010, 01:43 AM
mihai_m mihai_m is offline
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But then according to the profiles, ISTj's use common phrases, perhaps another example of the fallacy of typing.
Although this is not the way I'd exactly express, but indeed it is true, but in general this is when it comes to justifications. The problem is what each of us understands, for example what is "common"? Think that ISTj's pretty much take the solid grounds from their environments, it is normal that these differ from person to person, what families they lived in, culture, and many more. This is the real typing ability in this case, to detect their conventionalism even in the unconventional.

So in the end you say that typing is a fallacy as a whole, or this consideration about ISTj's?
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  #99  
Old 05/01/2010, 01:57 AM
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Although this is not the way I'd exactly express, but indeed it is true, but in general this is when it comes to justifications. The problem is what each of us understands, for example what is "common"? Think that ISTj's pretty much take the solid grounds from their environments, it is normal that these differ from person to person, what families they lived in, culture, and many more. This is the real typing ability in this case, to detect their conventionalism even in the unconventional.

So in the end you say that typing is a fallacy as a whole, or this consideration about ISTj's?
Someone woke up this morning and decided to leave his brains at home and instead start taking life literally. Ignore him, he is just trolling.
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  #100  
Old 05/01/2010, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by mihai_m View Post
Although this is not the way I'd exactly express, but indeed it is true, but in general this is when it comes to justifications. The problem is what each of us understands, for example what is "common"? Think that ISTj's pretty much take the solid grounds from their environments, it is normal that these differ from person to person, what families they lived in, culture, and many more. This is the real typing ability in this case, to detect their conventionalism even in the unconventional.

So in the end you say that typing is a fallacy as a whole, or this consideration about ISTj's?
I think that typing famous people is almost impossible because we have so little to go on. I've attempted it before but it's more like a project than a summary of information, because we can't interact with them ourselves either because they are unattainable or dead, so I think the best way to go about it is to consume and analyse as much about the person as we can, but then that can take some effort, this is as a for instance why I recommend the Freudian analysis by Wagner on Hitler, to try to get an insight into the person beyond the apparancies.

I also think that not everyone has a type, or if they do it is buried under other layers which we can't always seperate - be it upbringing, genetics, presented personas, so for some people I don't give them a type as such, I just give them a general impression of some of the information elements in regards to how I am receptive to them as people.

You could say that rather than approach it with logics and reasons, because although correct in themselves, they can be based on false premise, I tend to rely to a fair degree on heurism. Although I do try to apply some logics, it's a context of a personal level and I suppose I have more questions than answers for some reason, i'll soon get over it i'm sure.

I agree with you about what is classed as normal. Take for instance Fe PoLR, it's said in some manuals that they don't display much external emotion, but what about an Fe PoLR brought in an externally explosive environment, displaying and working with emotions becomes what's normal to them.

Although I think with ISTj's the "normal" is some unnatainable aspect, like for instance "common" sayings which have been around for a long time, they are sort of untouchable in how they can be queried, but at the same time they are useful to it's the reasons behind which makes the difference. I suppose this moves on to information elements but then these don't seem that well defined, how can they be when it's supposed to be just 8 of them which handles every possible information?

For instance, I don't understand Ni at all if I were to explain it, I can only tell it when I see someone uses it, as it can stress me out like a role function, but I can't explain it.

Anyway, I ramble it seems, according to SG, sorry.

Last edited by Cyclops; 05/01/2010 at 11:01 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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