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  #21  
Old 03/03/2006, 12:56 AM
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Default Re: Belief and Intelligence

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Originally posted by SG:
[QB] Because there are probably more less intelligent and less more intelligent people among those who believe in god.
If that's what you wish to "believe"....
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  #22  
Old 03/03/2006, 01:38 AM
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Default Re: Belief and Intelligence

It was an assumption.
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  #23  
Old 03/03/2006, 02:09 AM
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Default Re: Belief and Intelligence

A judgement.
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  #24  
Old 03/03/2006, 02:48 AM
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Default Re: Belief and Intelligence

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Can anyone give an example of a different intelligence?
Some ways of categorising intelligence are musical, spatial, linguistic, inter-personal,intra-personal, mathematical(and herein comes the logical part of intelligence which ppl have been fanatically upholding)etc.

The IQ which seems to be so highly prized by some people was developed as nothing more than a test of General Mental Abilities. there is nothing as great about the test as people are led to believe.

an example of "different intelligence " would be Mozart (why else did u think he was called a child prodigy?). his was a clear case of having musical intelligence.

this is just one example. i am sure u can urself come up with more.
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  #25  
Old 03/03/2006, 04:51 AM
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Default Re: Belief and Intelligence

I don't know what all the fuss here is about. Whether the initial speculation was a judgment and not an assumption is sort of silly cause you can make many arguments to say it was something else even. you could go on forever.

I think we all pretty much agree that intelligence is some sort of capacity for reason. I think that it is also true that a capacity towards reason is lacking and there is a consequential inability to solve problems, which is reasoning. So when this happens people tend to follow proposed solutions given by others because they lack the ability to solve the problem but also have the need for a solution.

So in that sense, yes, if someone has something you need(a solution) and you can find it yourself(inability to solve a problem), you're going to want to borrow it from them. If it is an idea which serves a purpose, then one can say it manifests in believing.

as for IQ tests and stuff, that is just a constructed definition used by psychologists and is also in dispute- no one ever said it was the final say in intelligence and if they did they are an idiot(in my opinion).
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  #26  
Old 03/03/2006, 07:11 AM
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Default Re: Belief and Intelligence

There are several assumptions here that concern me.
Belief is in itself a judgement. It is based on data just as any other form of reaction would be. Whether or not that data is relevant, correct or true is another matter altogether.
One can believe something without having to borrow the idea (inasmuch as we borrow from one another without thinking about it on several levels). A person may believe he is not good looking while he may be stunning to the outside world. How or why he believes what he does may be a faulty conclusion or interpretation of data based on past experience. The person may have afterward concluded that the experience occured due to his supposed ugliness, even if this is wrong by most of the world's book.
It appears, however, that what's being discussed here is not the concept of belief in general, but religion. In that case I think it would be useful to specify.
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  #27  
Old 03/03/2006, 07:50 AM
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Default Re: Belief and Intelligence

I agree with you, Nyx, good points.

Alright, so let's solve this problem, cause we are just so cool.

Now lets pretend there are two forms of beliefs on a continuum. There is positive and negative belief. Positive belief consists of positive intelligence, whereas negative belief is negative intelligence. So positive belief is when a person is aware of the causal relationships between variables in a concept, whereas negative belief is where a person is not aware of the causal relationship between variables in a concept.

+ BELIEF:

Girly Girly: "I am going to wait until marriage to have a child."

Minister: "Why?"

Girly Girl: "Because then I will be more likely to be financially secure."

- BELIEF:

Girly Girly: "I am going to wait until marriage to have a child."

Minister: "Why?"

Girly Girly: "Because if I have sex before marriage I will go to hell."

-----------------------------------------------

In the second example she has no way to logically substantiate her response, it is based purely upon belief she lacks "intelligence" or "information" in which to reinforce it.
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  #28  
Old 03/03/2006, 08:18 AM
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Default Re: Belief and Intelligence

Why should I, mm? I thought you were perfectly capable of abstract reasoning.
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  #29  
Old 03/03/2006, 08:24 AM
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Default Re: Belief and Intelligence

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Originally posted by SG:
Belief in god is based on fear and it doesn't matter how intelligent you are if you're scared that's what you get, so this is sort of irrelevant to the point made.
What causes this fear, then? How does this not disprove your hypothesis that those who are inclined to believe in the unproven are somehow mentally inferior?
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  #30  
Old 03/03/2006, 12:06 PM
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Default Re: Belief and Intelligence

Quote:
Originally posted by alphaquerist:
an example of "different intelligence " would be Mozart (why else did u think he was called a child prodigy?)
Maybe this is because Mozart had a talent for music? I am not sure this is a good example of a different intelligence or that the talent and intelligence is the same thing per se.

I absolutely agree with Epic that an intelligence is the ability to solve problems. A general intelligence is the ability to solve general problems, a specific intelligence is the ability to solve specific problems. And I was referring to the general intelligence in my initial post if you want to be this specific.
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  #31  
Old 03/03/2006, 12:19 PM
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Default Re: Belief and Intelligence

Quote:
Originally posted by Nyx:
A person may believe he is not good looking while he may be stunning to the outside world. How or why he believes what he does may be a faulty conclusion or interpretation of data based on past experience. The person may have afterward concluded that the experience occured due to his supposed ugliness, even if this is wrong by most of the world's book.
Well, if you truly believe that you are ugly (means you are absolutely confident and accept it as a truth that you're ugly) and therefore start behaving as such and refuse to accept the fact that everybody else believes you are stunning, what does it say about you? You are mental? You are paranoid? You are stupid? You are weird? ... Nah, you are intelligent!
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  #32  
Old 03/03/2006, 03:02 PM
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Default Re: Belief and Intelligence

An intelligent person can have a severe lack of confidence, which can manifest itself as false beliefs (and disbelief, which is simply another facade of belief). In this case what hebelieves has nothing to do with their ability to solve logical problems.
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  #33  
Old 03/03/2006, 05:52 PM
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Default Re: Belief and Intelligence

A severe lack of confidence to the point of absurd....? I don't remember us discussing pathological cases.
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  #34  
Old 03/03/2006, 06:10 PM
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Default Re: Belief and Intelligence

I don't recall sanity being a measure of intelligence.

You are not proving your point. You're ruling out counter opinions (at this point your claim is not much more than your own formulation based on personal predjudice), and discarding examples that do not correlate with your model.
How is this not belief in itself?
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  #35  
Old 03/03/2006, 06:20 PM
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Default Re: Belief and Intelligence

Quote:
Originally posted by Epic:
I agree with you, Nyx, good points.

Alright, so let's solve this problem, cause we are just so cool.

Now lets pretend there are two forms of beliefs on a continuum. There is positive and negative belief. Positive belief consists of positive intelligence, whereas negative belief is negative intelligence. So positive belief is when a person is aware of the causal relationships between variables in a concept, whereas negative belief is where a person is not aware of the causal relationship between variables in a concept.

+ BELIEF:

Girly Girly: "I am going to wait until marriage to have a child."

Minister: "Why?"

Girly Girl: "Because then I will be more likely to be financially secure."

- BELIEF:

Girly Girly: "I am going to wait until marriage to have a child."

Minister: "Why?"

Girly Girly: "Because if I have sex before marriage I will go to hell."
I'm afraid you've lost me, dear...Do you mean that negative beliefs constitute less intelligence than positive belief?
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  #36  
Old 03/03/2006, 06:27 PM
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Default Re: Belief and Intelligence

Yes, it's a construct assembled in order to logically organize the assumption we are arguing. So it looks like I haven't lost you, sexy

Since you implied that a person can "believe" something intelligently, I have constructed a continuum which distinguishes the different between say, an "educated" belief (+), as opposed to an ingorant one(-).
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  #37  
Old 03/03/2006, 06:29 PM
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Default Re: Belief and Intelligence

Ah. That would then imply that there are degrees of belief, and the nature of belief and its motivations are just as important as the belief itself, correct?
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  #38  
Old 03/03/2006, 06:39 PM
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Default Re: Belief and Intelligence

Well it is all up to the person constructing the definition.

In this situation we can claim that there are two "types" of belief, a negative and positive. I assume that's what you mean by "nature"?

whether it is negative or not is dependent upon how educated the belief is. In this context the term "belief" refers to a confidence in somethings reality.

I assume there can be a -belief with a + confidence and a + with a - confidence. there can, of course, be ++ or -- as well.

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  #39  
Old 03/03/2006, 06:43 PM
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Default Re: Belief and Intelligence

Quote:
I assume there can be a -belief with a + confidence and a + with a - confidence. there can, of course, be ++ or -- as well.

<img border="0" alt="[sex]" title="sex" src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sex.gif" /> [/QB]
You're so...graphic. I love it.

Educated is rather an archaic word to use here, though, don't you think? After all there are morons with doctorates, and bright but uneducated people who may never have the opportunity to study formally.

In the context of the above example, it seems more "rational" and "irrational" than educated or uneducated.
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  #40  
Old 03/03/2006, 06:45 PM
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Default Re: Belief and Intelligence

Quote:
Originally posted by Nyx:
I don't recall sanity being a measure of intelligence.
Sanity - soundness of judgment or reason
Intelligence - ability to reason
Insanity - inability to understand the nature and consequences of one's acts (as making a will) or of events, matters, or proceedings in which one is involved
Stupidity - a poor ability to understand or to profit from experience

Fine, if you want it this way, insane people are somewhat stupid. If you see someone smiling at you and you immediately believe they want to kill you then you’re most probably have few nuts and bolts loose or missing in your head. Would you be able to efficiently solve problems in this condition?
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