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Old 18/06/2008, 03:14 AM
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Angry Waking up from being awake--whats your take?

If a person of a particular type cannot be their true type because his/her family does not tolerate it or society does not tolerate it.....what type does this person become instead?........or what changes does this person make or is forced to make ?....and how different would his/her type become?

And if this person ever came out of this acoma (figuratively speaking) to become his true type later on in life....what scars would he/she carry with him or herself?

also...Why does a certain select person here or there not fit in into any of these 16 types, at least not easily?

Anybody have any ideas or experiences or anything to say.
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Old 18/06/2008, 03:18 AM
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If a person of a particular type cannot be their true type because his/her family does not tolerate it or society does not tolerate it.....what type does this person become instead?........or what changes does this person make or is forced to make ?....and how different would his/her type become?

And if this person ever came out of this acoma (figuratively speaking) to become his true type later on in life....what scars would he/she carry with him or herself?

also...Why does a certain select person here or there not fit in into any of these 16 types, at least not easily?

Anybody have any ideas or experiences or anything to say.
Someone that is balanced or has attributes on both ends of a dichotomy might be hard to type, but I don't think that you can suppress a consistent designation, it's too basic...all you can do is imitate another one, but your real type will still poke through...didn't you have some experience with this Kensi?
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Old 18/06/2008, 04:08 AM
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Someone that is balanced or has attributes on both ends of a dichotomy might be hard to type, but I don't think that you can suppress a consistent designation, it's too basic...all you can do is imitate another one, but your real type will still poke through...didn't you have some experience with this Kensi?
you said imitate. What do you mean by this, do you have anything in particular in mind ....like i do?

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but I don't think that you can suppress a consistent designation, it's too basic...
You're prime designation would still show up but only on a very limited basis (poke thru)...but your inner dynamics would tell you to substitute something else into its place...i suppose.

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...didn't you have some experience with this Kensi?
nothing really major....but i went thru a period of my life where i had an ESFj friend and then somehow jumped to another ESFj friend and then another ESFj friend (believe me i dont know how this happened---there seemed to be some sort of a draw there) and he(especially the last one by now) had a big influence on me ....i don't know if i can say that i was ENFp through those years. What really happened was i was forced to pick up or maybe imitate some of his ESFj traits. The years were ok...(but odd).. but i always back then felt that i was in an inferior position (see relationship of benefit)....and this caused me to pick up some of his Fe even though my Fi never really wanted to venture out into the E world. I always wonder if some of my Fe tendancies up to this day come from that/those relationship(s). I find that it can be a very controlling relationship (for an ENFp)--- Not so much in your adulthood life...but moreso in your late teens/early twenties.

so i'm left to wonder..If i interacted with him....would that not make me come across a little like ESFj (even though i do not associate myself with their style). Perhaps in a reactive way rather than a proacvtive one as i think there is a difference even though i don't quite know what it is.

this has me alittle confused....is it possible for an ENFp to pick up a secondary set of ESFj traits..........almost like a reflex of having to deal with a controlling type?

If you really are controlled are you not at the energy level of the controller....absolutely i would think....even though your true personality still remains in tact ...but just buried a little beneath the surface you could say.

As far as i can remember, relations of benefit were also referd to as relations of control a little while back in time on some Psych Sites.



As far as i know there is no real age at which your true type begins to take shape.....i've ran into some guidelines.....or is there?
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Old 18/06/2008, 05:40 AM
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you said imitate. What do you mean by this, do you have anything in particular in mind ....like i do?

..........almost like a reflex of having to deal with a controlling type?

As far as i know there is no real age at which your true type begins to take shape.....i've ran into some guidelines.....or is there?
What do you have mind? It happens whenever childish impulses begin to become suppressed...circa seven years of age? Every type has some of the other type just to cope (I display 'j' characteristics when I am impatient to get things done).
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Old 18/06/2008, 05:46 AM
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What do you have mind? It happens whenever childish impulses begin to become suppressed...circa seven years of age? Every type has some of the other type just to cope (I display 'j' characteristics when I am impatient to get things done).
have you ever felt a certain ISTj grasp in your life (given that you are a supposed INTp)....a controlling one.......perhaps when you were younger?

or do you have anything to say about ISTj people and how they can control (used lightly) you?....i know its knida weird asking but i;m working off of experiences i had.
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Old 18/06/2008, 07:08 AM
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have you ever felt a certain ISTj grasp in your life (given that you are a supposed INTp)....a controlling one.......perhaps when you were younger?

or do you have anything to say about ISTj people and how they can control (used lightly) you?....i know its knida weird asking but i;m working off of experiences i had.
Yeah, possibly, but I've tried not to be socially influenced or dominated by authority.
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Old 18/06/2008, 08:07 AM
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If a person of a particular type cannot be their true type because his/her family does not tolerate it or society does not tolerate it.....what type does this person become instead?........or what changes does this person make or is forced to make ?....and how different would his/her type become?

And if this person ever came out of this acoma (figuratively speaking) to become his true type later on in life....what scars would he/she carry with him or herself?

also...Why does a certain select person here or there not fit in into any of these 16 types, at least not easily?

Anybody have any ideas or experiences or anything to say.
No. You cannot be forced to change your type. You can be forced to act differently. Now if someones is trying to force someone to use Te all the time, and Te is their fourth function, they will never be able to do it well. They will just get miserable and see themselves as either having to escape the environment and/or as some sort of failure.
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Old 18/06/2008, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by kensi View Post
If a person of a particular type cannot be their true type because his/her family does not tolerate it or society does not tolerate it.....what type does this person become instead?........or what changes does this person make or is forced to make ?....and how different would his/her type become?

And if this person ever came out of this acoma (figuratively speaking) to become his true type later on in life....what scars would he/she carry with him or herself?

also...Why does a certain select person here or there not fit in into any of these 16 types, at least not easily?

Anybody have any ideas or experiences or anything to say.
my take is that a lot of people don't smug a neat fit into a paradigm of man made descriptions anyway.
i can be rude and inconsiderate at times, which makes me question (frequently) who am i. for example, my rough analysis (in question) of Eminem (the rapper) who i believe him to be an IEI (if i am right) does not play the perfect example of an IEI, but he is one that has adjusted to his environment and that in turn has fed his consciousness about who he is. people input new words into dictionaries and Socionics is just a rough cut to a simplified view on personality/society. if one does not fit, it's not a flaw but an advantaged edge where you are surfing your own identity.
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Old 18/06/2008, 12:13 PM
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my take is that a lot of people don't smug a neat fit into a paradigm of man made descriptions anyway.
i can be rude and inconsiderate at times, which makes me question (frequently) who am i. for example, my rough analysis (in question) of Eminem (the rapper) who i believe him to be an IEI (if i am right) does not play the perfect example of an IEI, but he is one that has adjusted to his environment and that in turn has fed his consciousness about who he is. people input new words into dictionaries and Socionics is just a rough cut to a simplified view on personality/society. if one does not fit, it's not a flaw but an advantaged edge where you are surfing your own identity.
This would make EMINEM the same type as you (maybe different subtype though or something)....is that accurate?.....now you got me curious, imay wanna do the analysis on him.

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but he is one that has adjusted to his environment and that in turn has fed his consciousness about who he is. .
But maybe there are 2 ways to look at it.....i heard this before on this forum.....do i change myself to accomodate the environment(a control aspect the environment has on you...and a reactive one) or do i change the environment to accomodate me (true type---proactive)......

xxxxxxxxxxxx

So if you say he adapted himself to his environment to produce an INFp image.....then if he was to be himself and instead try to change his environment ....would he not be INTj (i'm just relating this to how i got this thread going...working off of a similar notion)

i know this is just speculation >>>> to account for things i cannot otherwise account.

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No. You cannot be forced to change your type. You can be forced to act differently. Now if someones is trying to force someone to use Te all the time, and Te is their fourth function, they will never be able to do it well. They will just get miserable and see themselves as either having to escape the environment and/or as some sort of failure.
Cyc, my friend with the degree in Cycology (i had to throw that in at some point in time you know...no harm intended)......

what type do you suspect has the greatest control over you......I think it should be the INTj according to the theory....which means you may find yourself acting thru some "INTj haziness" (that is..if you ever find yourself in a situation where you are controlled).............wanna hear what you think..

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Yeah, possibly, but I've tried not to be socially influenced or dominated by authority.
i understand......what i'm trying to get at here is that some people don't have a choice.......take somebody who really likes their job but has to work with a supervisory co-worker and must put up with the control....and doesn't want to leave the company....or something like that
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Last edited by kensi; 18/06/2008 at 12:13 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 18/06/2008, 12:19 PM
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This would make EMINEM the same type as you (maybe different subtype though or something)....is that accurate?.....now you got me curious, imay wanna do the analysis on him.



But maybe there are 2 ways to look at it.....i heard this before on this forum.....do i change myself to accomodate the environment(a control aspect the environment has on you...and a reactive one) or do i change the environment to accomodate me (true type---proactive)......

xxxxxxxxxxxx

So if you say he adapted himself to his environment to produce an INFp image.....then if he was to be himself and instead try to change his environment ....would he not be INTj (i'm just relating this to how i got this thread going...working off of a similar notion)

i know this is just speculation >>>> to account for things i cannot otherwise account.



Cyc, my friend with the degree in Cycology (i had to throw that in at some point in time you know...no harm intended)......

what type do you suspect has the greatest control over you......I think it should be the INTj according to the theory....which means you may find yourself acting thru some "INTj haziness" (that is..if you ever find yourself in a situation where you are controlled).............wanna hear what you think..
I would have to think this through more thoroughly, and I would have to question your use of the word control. As an ISTp, no type controls me that I am aware of, unless I let them, and then it isn't control.

I'm trying to cut through the Ni speculation of your thread here (heehee sorry, had to get that in, re if you really are ENFp ) but I think what you are maybe looking at, is a fixation on ones vulnerable function. So for me it would have to be ESFj, but only over prolonged contact and time. I sometimes wonder tho, if you are ENFp, that you focus too much on your fourth function. I hate going round in circles and I generally don't like questioning types but I keep thinking your posts often show Ni speculation and Ti seeking final structures. Maybe your ENFj or maybe your INFp and you experienced a super ego relation with an ISTp. Being ENFj or INFp would explain your difficulties with your ESTj dad.
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Old 18/06/2008, 03:37 PM
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kensi -
This would make EMINEM the same type as you (maybe different subtype though or something)....is that accurate?.....now you got me curious, imay wanna do the analysis on him.

remo-
thats if he is, or i am.. i hold myself (type) in question, however it is the closest description there is of myself.

kensi-
But maybe there are 2 ways to look at it.....i heard this before on this forum.....do i change myself to accommodate the environment(a control aspect the environment has on you...and a reactive one) or do i change the environment to accommodate me (true type---proactive)......

remo-
only you will know that sir.

kensi-
So if you say he adapted himself to his environment to produce an INFp image.....then if he was to be himself and instead try to change his environment ....would he not be INTj (i'm just relating this to how i got this thread going...working off of a similar notion)

remo-
his adaptation to the environment did not produce an INFp. the type is already predisposed. his interpretation is the part that makes him a representation of his environment. but not to a typical airy fairy persona which would not have survived under such conditions.
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Old 18/06/2008, 05:23 PM
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Cyc, my friend with the degree in Cycology

i understand......what i'm trying to get at here is that some people don't have a choice.......take somebody who really likes their job but has to work with a supervisory co-worker and must put up with the control....and doesn't want to leave the company....or something like that
Cycology...another good one...

In that situation I try not to interact but I still exhibit my disapproval passively and ultimately request a department change...

Let me know when you type Mr. Marshall Mathers The Third.
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Old 18/06/2008, 05:47 PM
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Cycology...another good one...

In that situation I try not to interact but I still exhibit my disapproval passively and ultimately request a department change...

Let me know when you type Mr. Marshall Mathers The Third.
If it sucks tho, sometimes you just gotta bite the bullet and leave. True though, easier said than done

Last edited by Cyclops; 18/06/2008 at 05:47 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 18/06/2008, 07:17 PM
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The issue of "masking", if this is what you're referring to, was discussed in another personality system; basically, the author said that we may take on traits of another temperament (for compensation reasons) and project them, and we will even test as partially that temperament, but it is still not our innate one and needs to be discarded for our true nature. Could it happen in Socionics as well? I don't see why not.
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Old 18/06/2008, 08:39 PM
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The issue of "masking", if this is what you're referring to, was discussed in another personality system; basically, the author said that we may take on traits of another temperament (for compensation reasons) and project them, and we will even test as partially that temperament, but it is still not our innate one and needs to be discarded for our true nature. Could it happen in Socionics as well? I don't see why not.
I agree. Being ourselves, and finding an environment/niche which is ourselves, surely got to be the way to true ying/yang happiness an all? ... haha maybe
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Old 18/06/2008, 11:10 PM
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I would have to think this through more thoroughly, and I would have to question your use of the word control. As an ISTp, no type controls me that I am aware of, unless I let them, and then it isn't control.

I'm trying to cut through the Ni speculation of your thread here (heehee sorry, had to get that in, re if you really are ENFp ) but I think what you are maybe looking at, is a fixation on ones vulnerable function. So for me it would have to be ESFj, but only over prolonged contact and time. I sometimes wonder tho, if you are ENFp, that you focus too much on your fourth function. I hate going round in circles and I generally don't like questioning types but I keep thinking your posts often show Ni speculation and Ti seeking final structures. Maybe your ENFj or maybe your INFp and you experienced a super ego relation with an ISTp. Being ENFj or INFp would explain your difficulties with your ESTj dad.



That's a very credible theory ,CYC, one that i already have been working off of as i told you long ago...its not out of the question and one i'm still trying too figure out..........what makes it tough for me to decide is that i don't understand the exact relationship between 1Ne (Dominant)+ 7 Ni(pers. know)...vs.....1Ni (Dominant)+ 7 Ne(pers. know)...they are both considered strong functions...


Also the reference to my dad is just one when it comes to ESTj......other ESTj types i have gotten along great with. It might be a subtypes issue as i said earlier. Also my ESTJ dad has a high and negative awareness of Ti....perhaps this is a contributing factor.
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Old 18/06/2008, 11:14 PM
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you said imitate. What do you mean by this, do you have anything in particular in mind ....like i do?


You're prime designation would still show up but only on a very limited basis (poke thru)...but your inner dynamics would tell you to substitute something else into its place...i suppose.



nothing really major....but i went thru a period of my life where i had an ESFj friend and then somehow jumped to another ESFj friend and then another ESFj friend (believe me i dont know how this happened---there seemed to be some sort of a draw there) and he(especially the last one by now) had a big influence on me ....i don't know if i can say that i was ENFp through those years. What really happened was i was forced to pick up or maybe imitate some of his ESFj traits. The years were ok...(but odd).. but i always back then felt that i was in an inferior position (see relationship of benefit)....and this caused me to pick up some of his Fe even though my Fi never really wanted to venture out into the E world. I always wonder if some of my Fe tendancies up to this day come from that/those relationship(s). I find that it can be a very controlling relationship (for an ENFp)--- Not so much in your adulthood life...but moreso in your late teens/early twenties.

so i'm left to wonder..If i interacted with him....would that not make me come across a little like ESFj (even though i do not associate myself with their style). Perhaps in a reactive way rather than a proacvtive one as i think there is a difference even though i don't quite know what it is.

this has me alittle confused....is it possible for an ENFp to pick up a secondary set of ESFj traits..........almost like a reflex of having to deal with a controlling type?

If you really are controlled are you not at the energy level of the controller....absolutely i would think....even though your true personality still remains in tact ...but just buried a little beneath the surface you could say.

As far as i can remember, relations of benefit were also referd to as relations of control a little while back in time on some Psych Sites.



As far as i know there is no real age at which your true type begins to take shape.....i've ran into some guidelines.....or is there?
heheh, I could totally see the dynamic there between a ESFj and ENFp. I'm trying to picture my sister around a ESFj and it would be weird, like the ESFj always in a favourable position hmmm..
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Old 18/06/2008, 11:16 PM
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That's a very credible theory ,CYC, one that i already have been working off of as i told you long ago...its not out of the question and one i'm still trying too figure out..........what makes it tough for me to decide is that i don't understand the exact relationship between 1Ne (Dominant)+ 7 Ni(pers. know)...vs.....1Ni (Dominant)+ 7 Ne(pers. know)...they are both considered strong functions...
Wikisocion isn't great, but it might help. Look up the functions in the Search box.
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Old 18/06/2008, 11:20 PM
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[quote=remo;12722]remoquote]
any idea also about SNOOP DOG's type?

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Wikisocion isn't great, but it might help. Look up the functions in the Search box.
thanks ...you know what....after a while you just start to doubt yourself----everything in this psychological typing system is so inter-dependant!--there are no spare parts--you make use of everythinjg--its just a question of where.
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Old 18/06/2008, 11:21 PM
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thanks ...you know what....after a while you just start to doubt yourself----everything in this psychological typing system is so inter-dependant!--there are no spare parts--you make use of everythinjg--its just a question of where.
That we do.
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