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Old 14/07/2007, 11:27 AM
WhyMustWeKill WhyMustWeKill is offline
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Default Full Explanation of how functions work (Theory)

Ok, this is my full explanation of how I think functions work and how the polarity of functions work.

Every person in Socionics according to model A has 4 sections of 2 functions. The ego block, the super-ego block, the super id block, and the id block. The functions that are in these blocks do not work like what most people think. The functions have both introverted and extroverted qualities. Take the first block of an INTj for example. The first function is thinking and the second function is intuition. For an INTj its thinking function is both introverted and extroverted, and its intuition function is both introverted and extroverted. An ENTjs thinking function is also introverted and extroverted, and its intuitive function is introverted and extroverted. So just looking at my characterization of the types, how does an INTj and an INTj differ. Both types have both introverted and extroverted thinking functions. Looking at the types like this, there is no difference between them. But when you meet an INTj and an ENTj, they are both very different. It is my belief that these functions differ in their polarity. An INTj's thinking function is divided into 2 known function parts, +Te and -Ti. An ENTj's thinking function is broken down into -Te and +Ti. So, what does the polarity of a function mean? It is my belief that the charges of these functions have to do with type of energy presented in relation to the functions goals. Using Ti, you can view the functions in 2 halfs, +Ti and -Ti. +Ti is about living within the system. Its about living up to the laws of the land. It believes in following a leader. -Ti is about disobeying the laws of the land. It is about creating a unique system. -Ti does not follow the norms of society. Using Fi as an example, +Fi could be view as being about harmony, happiness, positive emotions, and caring, and -Fi could be looked at as being about disharmony, pain of life, negative emotions. - and + is about the position of energy of each function, or the positiveness or negativeness view of the expertise of the function in general.

The blocks of a personality type work similar to how a battery works. INTjs have (-Ti and +Te) and (+Ne and -Ni) in their ego block. They influence each other when in relation to the world. The reason an INTj is considered introverted is that the (-Ti and +Te) function doesn't express individually as often as the function influences (+Ne and -Ni). The data chains of an INTj works like this:

(-Ti and +Te)------> (+Ne and -Ni)(-Te and +Te influenced)------> The world (influenced by the functions)

The world------> (+Ne and -Ni)(World influenced)----> (-Ti and +Te)(World and (+Ne and -Ni) influenced)

(-Ti and +Te) can communicate to the world through +Te although this doesn't happen as often as the normal data chain. This is why the collective function is viewed as introverted because +Te doesn't express itself as much.


Each person has conscious and unconscious functions. A person's Ego and Super Ego functions are conscious, and a person's Super Id and Id are unconscious. The unconscious functions influence the conscious functions and vice versa. In INTj's, the hidden agenda (the 6th block of Model A) is +Si and -Se. The hidden agenda influences the creative function of a person which then stimulates the dominate function. (+Si and -Se) is the reason that the (+Ne and -Ni)-----> chain works. It is the reason that information travels in the (-Ti and +Te) direction more often than the other way. It is the INTj functions. When an ISFp comes around it can cause the (+Ne and -Ni)------> (-Ti and +Te) to work more because her (+Si and -Se) will co direct the chain. (-Fe and +Fi) is the reason that the (-Ti and +Te)------> (+Ne and -Ni)(-Te and +Te influenced)------> The world (influenced by the functions) takes place. (-Fe and +Fi) is weaker in relation to its chain than (+Si and -Se) because an INTj is introverted. (-Fe and +Fi) from an ESFj cause an INTj to be more extroverted. This is what duality is. Duality is about causing the I and E types to become more E and I respectively.


Please ask questions.
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Old 14/07/2007, 05:30 PM
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Old 15/07/2007, 12:05 AM
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NS2D has a valid point, I have to think about it.
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Old 15/07/2007, 12:36 AM
WhyMustWeKill WhyMustWeKill is offline
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Do you understand this thread better than the last?
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Old 15/07/2007, 01:23 AM
jwrig2 jwrig2 is offline
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you're trying to break down each function into positive and negative values- of good and evil? i'd like to think human morality isnt quite so black and white.

also "The reason an INTj is considered introverted is that the (-Ti and +Te) function doesn't express individually as often as the function influences (+Ne and -Ni)." makes no ***king sense (like most of what you wrote). what does "good, extroverted intuition" and "bad, introverted intuition" have to do with actually being an introvert? it seems you're just making stuff up...
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Old 15/07/2007, 03:41 AM
WhyMustWeKill WhyMustWeKill is offline
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Um... no I'm not trying to break them down base on their moral standards. That has nothing to do with how the functions break down.

Also that statement that you quoted makes perfect logical sense. An INTj expresses itself normally through the (-Ti +Te) ----> (+Ne -Ne) data chain.
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Old 15/07/2007, 07:22 AM
WhyMustWeKill WhyMustWeKill is offline
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This is something I found


Jung's function: Introverted Intuition

Socionics function: white intuition - time - intuition of time
relationships between processes (events, actions) separated in time and space - availability of time, length of processes, abstract description of processes, patterns of events, sense of timing, history, sense of when things could happen, sense of danger or safety in future

Positive(short range):
The future, change of a situation in time, a prediction, a prediction, gradual development, evolution, a scheduled accession, dynamics of changes, a time stream, imagination, consistency, imperceptible changes — step by step, a convergence, convergence;

Negative (long range):
The past, error check, avoiding of danger, uneasiness, vague anxiety, nazrevanie crisis, revolution, jump in time, skill to be insured against troubles, sharp shifts, discrepancy, the moment of resolute actions, a divergence, divergentsija.



Jung's function: Extraverted Intuition
Socionics function: black intuition - intuition - intuition of potentialities
potentiality of object - inherent possibilities, purpose, abilities, talents, structure, construction, diagram or internal map of object

Positive(short range):
Prospects, opportunities, positive potential, essence, essence, the principles, new ideas, promotion of hypotheses, the theory, an insight, interest, originality, singularity, unreality, belief;

Negative (long range):
Hopelessness, alternative, negative potential, absence of essence, senselessness, the paradox, overlooked old, serost, the mediocrity, the suppressed opportunities, disbelief, sensation.




Jung's function: Introverted Thinking
Socionics function: white logic - logic - logic of correlation
objective, outwardly measurable relationships between objects - laws, regulations, rules, categories, quantifiable properties, logic, analysis, belonging, authorship, hierarchy, subordination, objective judgments

Positive(short range):
Reality, detail, detailed study, carefulness, severity, place in hierarchies, laws, decisions, instructions, a choice of the best variant, logic of the organization,

Negative (long range):
abstraction, generality, universality, system, classification, typology, the general laws, objectivity, true, validity, the analysis, logic of a science, criteria.




Jung's function: Extraverted Thinking
Socionics function: black logic - profit - business logic
external activity of object - actions, events (what, how, where), facts, activity or work, algorithms, procedures, logic of objects’ measurable outward behavior

Positive(short range):
Advantage, benefit, profitability, technology, the facts, purchases, accumulation, the purchase, savings, putting in order, a practicality;

Negative (long range):
Uselessness, unprofitableness, use, application, deterioration, charges, expenditure, risk, experiment, sale, trade, actions in conditions of chaos, an ingenuity.




Jung's function: Introverted Feeling
Socionics function: white ethics - relation - relational ethics
subjective emotional relationships between objects - attraction vs. repulsion, like vs. dislike, need of each other, love, friendship, antipathy, ethical norms, morals, qualitative properties, subjective judgments

Positive(short range):
Good relations — love, friendship, sympathy, an attraction, heat of attitudes, the sociability, a close psychological distance, kindly, pity;

Negative (long range):
Bad attitudes — hatred, enmity, antipathy, pushing away, estrangement, the unsociability, a far psychological distance, angrily, ruthlessness.




Jung's function: Extraverted Feeling
Socionics function: black ethic - emotion - emotional ethics
internal activity of object - internal processes in object, emotional arousal and arousability of object, emotional life, moods, subjective emotional content

Positive(short range):
understanding the emotional state of individual person, influence on individual’s emotions, ability to force one to open up through positive emotions, spreading optimism, happiness, attempts at lifting mood

Negative (long range):
Understanding the emotional state of groups, influencing group’s emotions, skill to force one to open up through negative emotions, theatricality




Jung's function: Extraverted Sensing
Socionics function: black sensing - force - volitional sensorics
outward traits of object - shape, old vs. young, worth or cost, appearance, energy of object, strength, readiness, willpower, mobilization

Positive(short range):
Deduction of authority, insubordination, protection, defense, retaliation, counterattack, hardness, upholding of the interests, strong-willed pressure from below upwards, will power, possession;

Negative (long range):
Capture of authority, submission, attack, aggression, attack, the initiative, persistence, insistence, strong-willed pressure from top to down, the statement of the interests due to others, overthrow, weakness, lack of will, mastering.




Jung's function: Introverted Sensing
Socionics function: white sensing - sense - sensational sensorics
physical relationships between processes taking place at same time and place - how they affect one’s inner state; physical sensations (sound, smell, etc.), how one feels, health, aesthetics

Positive(short range):
Pleasant sensations, comfort, convenience, harmony, beauty, appeal, rest, health, slackness, good state of health, pleasure, pleasure, sensitivity;

Negative (long range):
Unpleasant sensations, discomfort, inconvenience, disharmony, disgrace, unattractiveness, weariness, pressure, illness, bad state of health, suffering, pain.

Last edited by WhyMustWeKill; 15/07/2007 at 07:28 AM.
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Old 15/07/2007, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhyMustWeKill View Post
Do you understand this thread better than the last?
Oh, year, perfectly, apart from that I haven't read it and am not going to.
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Old 15/07/2007, 08:45 AM
WhyMustWeKill WhyMustWeKill is offline
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Quote:
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Oh, year, perfectly, apart from that I haven't read it and am not going to.
You, sir, are an idiot.
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Old 15/07/2007, 08:52 AM
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I called you an idiot first, remember?
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Old 15/07/2007, 08:57 AM
WhyMustWeKill WhyMustWeKill is offline
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i remember very well, but your more along the lines of being mentally ill
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Old 15/07/2007, 11:29 AM
WhyMustWeKill WhyMustWeKill is offline
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SG have you ever had a need to be unique. To be a non conformist.
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Old 15/07/2007, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhyMustWeKill View Post
SG have you ever had a need to be unique. To be a non conformist.
Do you want an honest answer? Never had such desire. In fact I always wanted to be normal like everybody else.
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Old 16/07/2007, 10:42 PM
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Completely random question - would that be a manifestation of Fe dual-seeking?
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Old 17/07/2007, 01:52 AM
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I could see the dual seeking thing. Perhaps with as a the role function, also a weak one, means there's not a lot he's comfortable expressing from inside as well- making conformity seem like the right thing...
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strongly expressed Introvert
strongly expressed iNtuition
strongly expressed Feeling
moderately expressed Perceiving

Last edited by jdickens86; 17/07/2007 at 01:53 AM. Reason: typos
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Old 18/07/2007, 01:10 PM
WhyMustWeKill WhyMustWeKill is offline
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http://forum.socionix.com/lofiversio...x.php?t51.html
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Old 07/08/2007, 02:02 AM
WhyMustWeKill WhyMustWeKill is offline
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hmm... I've changed my mind about something in this theory. I believe that the alternate function in a section of the block does express itself. For example, an INTj with -Ti and +Te will express both functions. -Ti could express itself through +Te or +Ne. +Te could be influenced by -Ni or +Ne. The functions could be influenced by -Ti. This is basically how it works:

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x...scist7/Img.jpg

Last edited by Zeus; 07/08/2007 at 07:06 AM. Reason: Image too wide
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Old 02/06/2008, 03:20 AM
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Question +/-

I still cannot distinguish introverted and extroverted functions; these adjectives once characterized complete individuals, so I am helpless to understand why you would introduce a dimension of polarity...
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