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  #21  
Old 16/07/2007, 11:21 AM
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SG, how frequently did you ********** when you were 20?
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  #22  
Old 16/07/2007, 09:46 PM
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I know I put I was 20, but I'm actually 21 if it makes any difference. Probably doesn't sound significant, but I've done a lot of maturing as far as developing my over that time.

Irkanda- I'd love to elaborate. Introverted feeling is a pretty weird thing, and it is the leading function of the INFJ. It is my belief that the inner-directedness of introverted feeling necessitates that it must be expressed through an extroverted trait of a person. Due to the intensity of this persons introverted feeling, I believe that she spends that "energy" through her J tendency by throwing herself into external world action. To run away from her internal emotions, she focuses on an array of accomplishments such as starting an alternative campus paper, presiding over her sorority, being named "Ms. Greek," speech writing for the Texas speaker of the house, a multitude of internships, and a thousand other amazing awards and accomplishments. She ran away straight into being the most popular girl at my college, and begrudgingly so. Looking back at those who have accomplished great things, it is more evident to me that the greatest feats of humanity have not been achieved for their own sake, but have been the result of people running away from something else.

Fueled by the avoidance of inner feeling, she is so active that she masquarades as an full blown extravert (in the conventional sense of the term). When doing so, it seems incredibly forced and she comes across as insincere. According to her, she feels drained by all the activity and would much rather spend time alone. Knowing her, I believe she is defined by wanting to be alone, but not staying so for long because it just makes her "stew" until she must run out and do something.

Looking at the breakdown of her Model A and several type descriptions, it seems to me that INFJ gets closer than ENFJ, with her peculiarities arising due to the depth of her introverted feeling.

I believe there is a lot to be said for introverted feeling, and what people must "do with it."
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  #23  
Old 17/07/2007, 03:58 AM
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Joseph -- that does sound like an "introvert pretending to be an extrovert", but why ENFj? What about her adopted behaviour is +?
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  #24  
Old 17/07/2007, 04:15 AM
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Oh, I don't think she is ENFJ, I think she is an INFJ with problems.

Extraverts "focus on demands and the objective nature of the outside world rather than on one's subjective ties with the outside world."

She does do this, but as a defense mechanism. Model A for INFJ definately describes the person she actually is, as long as the adjusted behavior can be accounted for as something she is running away into.
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  #25  
Old 17/07/2007, 04:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdickens86 View Post
Oh, I don't think she is ENFJ, I think she is an INFJ with problems.

Extraverts "focus on demands and the objective nature of the outside world rather than on one's subjective ties with the outside world."

She does do this, but as a defense mechanism. Model A for INFJ definately describes the person she actually is, as long as the adjusted behavior can be accounted for as something she is running away into.
Yes, I got that, but you said she was acting ENFj so I was wondering what about her adopted behaviour was ENFj-like.
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  #26  
Old 17/07/2007, 04:46 AM
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I'm confused, but I think it's my fault.

I could have said something dumb at one point, but all I mean is this:

My ex-girlfriend is definately . As an outlet for her introverted feeling, she throws herself into accomplishment, exhibiting behavior MBTI would call "Judging" as a defense mechanism.

That's it. In my first post (on this site at all) I said ENFJ, which was a quick MBTI diagnoses, but after thinking about all 8 functions, I think it is this more interesting INFJ thing.
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  #27  
Old 17/07/2007, 04:50 AM
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Ok. I see. Your "MBTI diagnosis" makes things confusing, I'm afraid.
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  #28  
Old 17/07/2007, 04:56 AM
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Yeah, your right. Is there a better way to talk about MBTI's Judging and Perceiving concepts?

I'm trying to let go of MBTI, but I don't know how to discuss the J/P thing in terms of the symbols and it's a dimension I'm particularly interested in.
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  #29  
Old 17/07/2007, 04:58 AM
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Well, you could talk about the particular traits or functions instead.

Also, learning about the temperaments (EJ, EP, IJ, IP) might help, if you aren't already familiar with them.
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  #30  
Old 17/07/2007, 05:02 AM
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Wait, what? I'm only down with Kiersey temperaments.

Okay, I'll do that. I knew I was missing something.
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  #31  
Old 17/07/2007, 05:09 AM
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www.wikisocion.org is a great resource.
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  #32  
Old 17/07/2007, 05:20 AM
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Hmm, now I might be even more off base. The EJ temperament is described as:
  • proactive
  • restless
  • difficult to relax unless tired
  • walk tends to be quick-paced and "purposeful", as well as stiff
  • inclined to fidget when forced to remain inactive for long period
While the IJ is:
  • calm, balanced and inert
  • "unflappable"
  • rigid but not very fast gait
  • may appear passive-aggressive
  • usually very stable mood
  • more reactive than active
  • little inclination to fidget during long periods of inactivity
She's definately remarkably like the EJ temperament. Could that be a product of her forced behavior?

For the sake of full disclosure she used to be a coke addict too, and she's also on anti-psychotics , which could further force or shape behavior. She's a fidgity thing. Perhaps intense makes her uncomfortable not being active in general? It could be that bad in her case. Sounds like a stretch.

An interesting note on the coke: It's tendency to make you more comfortable and happy to act extraverted was why she enjoyed it: It made her forced self more "real," at least for a little while.

I'm pretty sure my whole appeal was that I made her authentically comfortable in the spirit of her true nature. When it was just us, it didn't seem like an E/I thing.
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  #33  
Old 17/07/2007, 05:30 AM
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Keep this in mind:

= (EJ and IP) Dynamic. People with these functions in the ego and superego blocks see the world as constantly changing, bit by bit.

= (EP and IJ) Static. People with these functions in the ego and superego see the world as constant, and changes are often seen to have happened "all at once".

Those who are uncomfortable with the world changing and become proactive about trying to control the changes. (EJ)

(The rest can probably be inferred from what is written about the temperaments, I'm just trying to make a specific point).

If she is truly of EJ temperament, it won't be the that causes the restlessness. I suspect that she's actually naturally an IP rather than an IJ (it makes more sense and it is also suggested by my personal experience and the experience of others I have spoken to that if a type "changes" temperament for whatever reason, they usually stay Static or Dynamic), although it is possible she is really an ENFj because people in the same quadra tend to make each other feel comfortable about themselves (because there is mutual understanding).

Does that make sense?

Last edited by Irkanda; 17/07/2007 at 05:36 AM. Reason: typo
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  #34  
Old 17/07/2007, 05:49 AM
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I think I understand where you're coming from. What, then, would you say her base type is before applying all the defense mechanisms and weird things she does with it?

I think I have a feel for who she is, but I can't say for sure what part of her outlook is hers and what part springs from what gets twisted up. Her and I was quite a seperate affair from her and the world, with her/me representing "what feels authentic" and her/world representing "what feels like the necessary thing to do." Which is the escape? Does the world just win because it is bigger?

EJ sure sounds like what she is doing. She just seems so fake about it.
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Last edited by jdickens86; 17/07/2007 at 05:59 AM. Reason: typo
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  #35  
Old 17/07/2007, 05:54 AM
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You didn't really give enough of the right sort of information. My guess for now is ENFj.
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  #36  
Old 17/07/2007, 06:12 AM
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I think I'll just assume she's not really a person.

If she is ENFj, I have a hard time thinking is her Role function and is her Suggestive function, as these are expected to be weak, and she excelled at degrees in Government and Biology. She trys to define herself with Te by focusing her long term efforts on remastering health care, which comes from a personal place as well as an empathetic place.

We can consider her a lost cause since it must be more complicated than I can correctly illustrate. As an INFP, mainly oriented by a desire "to understand" and characterized as "The Romantic" you can imagine why I find this bothersome.
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  #37  
Old 17/07/2007, 06:16 AM
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I know an ENFj doing her Master in Biology, also of one that did a PhD in Chemical Engineering.

If you're determined enough, you can be good at any subject, really.

With your reasoning, however -- I wonder why you thought she was INFj?

Last edited by Irkanda; 17/07/2007 at 06:20 AM. Reason: blah I used the wrong word
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  #38  
Old 17/07/2007, 07:55 AM
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seemed to describe the "real" her, but now I'm not sure that's valid. There's not really an approach that breaks it down so I think "oh wow, that's here to a 't. '" Wikisocion is cool enough to breakdown each function in terms of what it means for each position. Although I felt looking at the functions that way described me and some other people well, none of the probable base types sounded like they really described her. Perhaps she is perceptually inextricable from all the weird things she does.

It's been a year since we've done more than exchange random e-mails. If I run into her again I'm sure it'll make more sense. Type is something my intuition tells me about when I see it, not something I consciously deduce.
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  #39  
Old 17/07/2007, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdickens86 View Post
Type is something my intuition tells me about when I see it, not something I consciously deduce.
+

You've probably typed yourself correctly, not that you need me to tell you that.
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  #40  
Old 17/07/2007, 07:09 PM
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Oh, I know I'm good on my type. I also know I can quickly and accurately type those I come across. I get a lot of "Oh, wow, that describes me perfectly!"

When dealing with someone from the past, I have to go about it differently. It's kind of sad I consider her the person with whom I've had the least psychological distance, but whatever her type is, she perverts it significantly.
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