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  #1  
Old 07/07/2007, 01:24 AM
jwrig2 jwrig2 is offline
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Angry NF problems

does anyone like them? with all their "quests for self discovery" they seem to be extremely disloyal and unfaithful people. been dating one for a year? been married to one for 5 years? dont be surprised to find them with someone else all of a sudden. their quest comes second to nothing and no one. they hate routine and as soon as you find yourself comfortable with them they're off on another adventure with someone else. they dont understand logic or reason, trusting their feelings. i can respect a desire to explore the unknown, getting out there and living a little, but not at the expense of the people who try to form actual, permanent relationships with them. "stability" isnt in their vocabulary.

i find this extremely disgusting, who can value that kind of disloyalty? time with an NF means absolutely nothing while they have things still to supposedly learn about themselves. always flowing, always hurting the people they leave behind.

i dated an NF for 9 months at college but when summer came around, even when we were only 20 minutes away from each other, she left me at the drop of a hat to explore other opportunities. we'd been very close and i was the most perfect boyfriend ever - she had nothing to complain about but still she left, with no warning or explanation. sheesh.

so do any of you have similar stories/ observations on NFs? i dont want to start a flame war or be too negative here, im just sharing my experiences and wouldnt mind a little advice maybe.
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Old 07/07/2007, 01:32 AM
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Well that's not characteristic of all NFs, or even most. Sounds more like an ENFp 'gone wrong'. Which I have seen and it ain't pretty. 'Gone wrong' they can be flighty, manipulative and extremely irresponsible with both money and other's emotions. But all types can 'go wrong'. Just start a threat named "INTj - Can anyone stand them?" and wait three minutes.
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Old 07/07/2007, 01:34 AM
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Advice is relatively simple:

Stop dating NFs
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Old 07/07/2007, 04:31 PM
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INFjs are HOT!
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Old 07/07/2007, 04:51 PM
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NFs that are hot, act like they're hot,
NFs that are not, still act like they're hot.
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Old 07/07/2007, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SG View Post
INFjs are HOT!
They really actually are. Men and women alike.
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Old 07/07/2007, 09:01 PM
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I agree entirely with what everyone has said...

...for a given value of 'agree'
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Old 07/07/2007, 10:15 PM
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I don't find INFjs all that attractive personally. INFps on the other hand..
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Old 07/07/2007, 10:24 PM
jwrig2 jwrig2 is offline
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my ex is actually an INFP, all the NFs i know seem to be genetically inclined towards cheating on their lovers/ spouses. so i dont trust them anymore.

on a completely unrelated note, what do the square and triangle functions mean in the socionics profile?
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Old 07/07/2007, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwrig2 View Post
my ex is actually an INFP, i dont trust any NFs now.
Yay! That makes my advice the most useful.
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  #11  
Old 08/07/2007, 01:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwrig2 View Post
on a completely unrelated note, what do the square and triangle functions mean in the socionics profile?
Thinking and intuition, respectively.
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Old 09/07/2007, 04:07 PM
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Being a Sensing-Thinking man I have the greatest weakness in the Intuition-Feeling area. NF people seem aliens for me. I am not talking about dating, but rather about understanding the simplest things. I really don't understand how can they can get pleasure out of dramatizations. I have never understood why are most love songs sad? I can understand that a song about someone who lost his lover can be sad. But why does being with one's lover imply sadness? Most of love songs have to be happy.

Even if some NFs can look joyful, I believe that at deep inside of them there is some sadness. That's because their ultimate aim is having an absolute intimacy with someone, and that is never possible. You can never make an excellent and perfect bond with anyone.

I like to have knowledge about my personality like it is. Unlike the NF my objective is to know my points of weakness (in order to know how to avoid being destroyed by others) and my strengths points (because "The right man in the place", I would like to know where's my place). The NF wants to know himself as a step to discover the "meaning of his life". Does anyone knows what the hell it does mean? Why must there be a meaning for life? What is meant by meant by meaning anyway?

I get surprised when somebody claims to have writing poems as a hobby. How can that be pleasurable? An NF asked me to read a poem. I told him that the poem is very dry. He claimed that I have to work on my emotions a lot because such a poem is a very emotionally strong poem. I reread the poem something like 20 times and until now I am still unable to experience any emotion while reading the poem. By the way I don't experience feelings while reading any poem. NF people make me feel that I am inferior in the field of the feeling function when they tell me that a poem could provoke in them a lot of emotions. I know an NF who says poems while he is taking a shower instead of singing.

I believe that I need to learn a lot of things from intuition-feeling people, and they have a lot of things to learn from me.
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Old 12/07/2007, 02:34 PM
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I'm an INFP, and naturally my "thing" is understanding. I'm obsessed with it. Seriously, my eyes get dielated and I can't sleep for a while after thinking about socionics. Look at the time- I haven't slept yet because I decided to check my posts.

Com-Com, the reason you have trouble understanding NFs is because S and T are both "rational" and N and F are both "irrational." While your focused on what is and what you can do with it, our take on life focuses on what is subjective, imagined and felt.

Your bafflement with our species conveys your lack of appreciation for what is subjective rather than observable. I say that without negative judgment, it's just not what you "see" when you look at existence. You have different powers that naturally seem more real world, but the world is not simply as it is, it is how it is perceived and experienced. Trying to understand intuition will probably do you well. Instead of thinking "to ourselves" we can essentially have our feelings do the thinking for us. It's like having yourself just tell you the answer. While this can be powerful, it can run into pitfalls since it's not governed by the reason of the ego.

I'll try to speak for NFs generally to answer your questions, 1) It is not that we get pleasure out of dramatizations, it is that we feel intensely about things seemingly without an objective reason and that can appear confusing. As well as getting upset about visable things, we place worth on things like feelings and ideas. An important thing to know is that we don't use rationality to get there, our unconscious does the work and presents the knowledge in the form of a feeling we can easily identify. 2) Love is angsty. If you tell me a song you have in mind I can try and see if I can understand what you're talking about better. Unchained Melody comes to mind, but that is about conveying the intense need for love. Maybe you have a better one. 3) Our melancholy has to do with having to live in a world that falls short of our idealistic vision. You're insight on love is accurate, but it's not about thinking that love is important, it's striving for a feeling of acceptance and completion. You are right to point out it is probably overly idealistic. 4) Our "objective" (although the word is kind of ST) is not played out in our thought processes, it's an emotional desire to lay some sort of rationale behind our unconscious motives. You should appreciate that. 5) Concerning meaning, NFs feel like everything that just "is" is totally empty because it does not experience life's pleasure and pain. There just doesn't feel like there is a point to concerning ourselves with objective data when the experience is really characterized by "how we experience" rather than "what it is we experience." Meaning is about making the experience of things better not screwing around with stuff.

As far as learning things from you, I would argue we already know how to sense and think, it's just that we're experiencing very visceral emotions and enjoying the advantage of intuition. If you've ever had a feeling, you would know that the thing you feel like doing with it is resolution. A poem manifests subjective reality in objective reality. Making that jump feels like you've really accomplished something meaningful. I myself find art to be enjoyable as I put a feeling in something that can be visibly conveyed to other people using the real world. It's about the need for expression.

Here's the thing. NF types aren't experiencing things the same way you are and just acting in ridiculous ways. You might be able to get up in front of a room full of people and give a talk and feel no change. When I get up there, I tell myself there is nothing to worry about, but my particular intuition and feeling functions make my brain overwhelmed with wondering how people feel about me, make it difficult for me to speak loudly, and I generally experience a lot of pain. You are probably able to think about what you need to think about.

The moral is: When trying to understand NFs, don't focus on how their behavior doesn't reflect objective reality, wonder how they must truly be experiencing the situation differently than you. As someone who sees things as concrete and able to more free of the constraints of feeling it will be difficult, but everyone has some degree of all 8 functions. Evolving your lesser ones is a sign of maturity.
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Old 12/07/2007, 06:51 PM
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Actually, in Socionics, T and F are rational while S and N are irrational
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Old 12/07/2007, 10:09 PM
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I think he meant the dictionary definition. Socionics definition is a bit misleading, same for extrovert vs (E)xtrovert.
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Old 13/07/2007, 03:19 PM
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I know that NFs view relality in a different way. Since I was raised in a French school I have a better grasp of NF mechanisms than most other STs (if France is strong in some S things this doesn't mean it is S. I am still very convinced that it is extremely NF: I received a French education and you haven't. Look at their films. They are much more NF than you would imagine: they are much more analytical-emotional than most american films. (Science is however taught in a very Ti-sh way)).

I'm gonna have to reread your post again to make sure that I understood well. My sensing wasn't allowing to imagine a lot what you were trying to say. It is too abstract.
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Old 14/07/2007, 08:57 AM
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Yeah, I apologize. All my posts have been commented on for being too abstract to convey what I mean. That's an INFP problem: everything is so internally defined that when I try to lay it out for someone my message doesn't make it all the way though.

I can explain things better in person because I can use my intuiton-powers to see what's sinking in and present it in the way that will make it through. At the same time, I avoid people as much as possible. Oh well.
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Old 01/04/2008, 03:05 PM
levinalim levinalim is offline
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Perhaps this can shed some light onto this matter:

Although NFs, especially the male NF, become restless if others (including mates, children, or parents) are dependent, NFs have in their own personality characteristics that promote this dependency. They pride themselves on being sensitive to others and caring about them. It is almost impossible for NFs to be unaware of others’ psychological needs. Yet the NF becomes restless when these ties begin to bind, as they do when the amount of emotional input becomes a psychological overload for the NF.

At this point the NF can seem cruel, insisting unexpectedly that the other “stand on his own two feet.” This shift in attitude is usually abrupt and the person who heretofore believed that he was very special in the eyes of
the NF now finds himself apparently rejected. The NF does not mean to be unkind; he or she is simply disconnecting a relationship which can no longer be handled – in spite of the reality that the NF created this dependent relationship through expressions of empathy and unique understanding. Building empathic relationships is second nature to this temperament, a master of the art of intimacy.

But as those around the NF want more and more attention, more and more expressions of this unusual appreciation, more and more signals of deep affection, the NF seemed promised; the ideal love, the
perfect friendship, complete understanding, and total acceptance.
The NF is vulnerable to this kind of misunderstanding because of his extraordinary capabilities to interject. He can take into himself the point of view, the emotions, and the psychological state of another
so completely that the other feels totally received.

The other person may not realize that the NF does this in most relationships, and may be hurt on discovering that he is not valued as uniquely as he first thought. When the NF leaves each person, the NF no longer resonates to that person, but relates to the person now present. Understandably, this can cause some difficulty in the mating relationship for mates who want this characteristic to be exercised more exclusively; the NF may not know how not to respond to the emotional demands of others.

http://www.purdue.edu/USP/pdfs/mbtiresources/INFJ.pdf
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Old 04/04/2008, 05:39 PM
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From what I can fathom, extroverted(extratim) NFs can be flighty as hell, they can act silly even, and you just stand there and watch how they make a fool out of themselves. A friend of mine is ENFp gone wrong, and he has trouble to keep up in the "real world", somehow he has forgotten to grow up. But as annoying and puzzling he can be, at the same time he is very very emotional and he always states, that he feels sympathy and love for most people. He often is depressed becuase of his troubles. But with his unableness to just concentrate and end tasks he'd begun hours ago (it's always the talking, he can talk away the whole time of a day about very specific things like rockbands... ) he appears as someone who is highly unreliable and capricious even.

Now the introvert NFs. I myself seem to be one, at least that's what the socionics.com online test is suggesting. And I am very unhappy with all of it. Because introverted feeling means a troublesome, tiring life full of misunderstandings.
Firstly, the main difference between E and I is that the E can easily catch up meanings and signs from the outer world, whereas the I has to take everything inside and has to chew on it for a while to draw an inner picture before he understands things and eventually spits out a result, often quite perplexing the other types - this is why introverted F (and introverted S?) are so goddamn ssllooww and reluctant and vague.
Being that slow means, that the rest of the world is too fast for the introvert. And it costs a lot of energy to keep the pace.
And there is something else: the empathy. Being an introverted empathist (?) you take everything in, sometimes it's as if you feel what the other is feeling, especially when something is wrong. So, can you imagine how it is, when you feel sadness, hurt, anger, frustation almost 1:1 although it's got nothing to do with you? This is why I prefer working alone, because work itself is straining, but the team-members always flipping out because of the boss or the customers is really sucking out all my energy. All I can do, is shut myself out. I wish I had a switch to shut off the introverted feeling. As a big big contrast, I absolutely like merry gatherings with friends, where i can pick up the good mood. Providing willingly to good feelings is energizing me, inadvertantly providing to bad feelings is draining me.

And just to defend themselves, most introvert NFs shut themselves off. When asked for a specific statement, they prefer to evade the answer, because often they are not ready to answer yet or they initially decided to keep themselves out of the equation, to protect themselves against confrontation. For most E's this has to appear as being highly unreliable, evasive, uninterested, wishy-washy and whatever else.

But really: most of the NFs seem to have absolutely different functions, it's like being a different kind of engine, it needs different gasoline and it sure keeps the joint working, but at a different pace and under optimized parameters that are very different from yours. Western zivilisation seem to provide optimum parameters for all types but the NFs, especially the introvert NFs. No wonder they often can't function "properly".

I think, being on a self-discovery spree is kind of inescapable for NFs, because things going wrong with other people get to them, no matter how they act. They want to find out what's not working, they want to find their place in a world where everything is laid out for the other types to grow and be successful, if I may oversimplyfy a bit here.

This is how I see it, and I dare you to tell me that I sound like I was blaming someone Neither do I blame anyone nor do I try to victimize NFs.
NFs are cool people, if you let them. If they find a place where their being different can be useful, they are absolute kings.
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  #20  
Old 05/04/2008, 01:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwrig2 View Post
does anyone like them?
Yeah, I like myself pretty well.

It sounds like you're describing something like an ENFP gone wrong. ENFPs need to grow up, get over themselves and learn to use that empathy they have in real world of relationships. That's a permanent to-do list I have in my head. Otherwise, it's a fun type to be, and often to be around. Just relax and have fun! The world is a big, exciting place.

Introvert NFs are very different in relationships, I think.
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