Go Back   Socionics Forums > Ramble Mumble

Ramble Mumble Anything goes, but please make an effort to stay positive and keep it socionics related.


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 02/05/2007, 01:05 PM
Don Don is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 40
Default 8 subtypes per type

Gulenko says on his website that he operates on the basis that there are 8 subtypes per type.

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babel...e%2fsysdcnh%2f

What do you make of all this
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02/05/2007, 08:50 PM
SG's Avatar
SG SG is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,521
Default

I think he searches for perfect compatibility and therefore needs more than 16 types to account for differences in personalities. Good luck to him!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02/05/2007, 10:31 PM
ValerieUGA's Avatar
ValerieUGA ValerieUGA is offline
One hot piece of INTj ass
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 170
Default

Finally, a Freudian approach personality! Everything can be deduced by stimulus and response, even personality. It's too granulated. Makes it appear reductive. But I might not have understood it clearly. Hard to read, yes?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03/05/2007, 12:02 AM
Don Don is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 40
Default

From what it seems from his article, he talks about how people of the same type can be different in personality/behavior. So I think he uses subtypes to explain why this occurs, although he has mentioned how duality can be more "comfortable" if people have matching subtypes.

SG,
I think you wrote once how people of the same type can have different personalities, giving 5 examples of ESFjs and how they differ. Unfortunately I cannot find that on this website anymore.

I personally think that socionics should stick strictly to information metabolism, there being only 16 possibilities for this. Two INFjs, for example, can come across quite differently; however they would metabolise information in exactly the same way, and that is what socionics is all about, and nothing more IMHO.

Last edited by Don; 03/05/2007 at 12:08 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03/05/2007, 01:06 AM
SG's Avatar
SG SG is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,521
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don View Post

SG,
I think you wrote once how people of the same type can have different personalities, giving 5 examples of ESFjs and how they differ. Unfortunately I cannot find that on this website anymore.

Yeah, it was in old Q&A. I haven't transferred all the questions initially. I'll have a look, maybe it's on my old laptop.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03/05/2007, 06:14 AM
Epic's Avatar
Epic Epic is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 460
Default

I think I remember that QA thing. I think you said "there are four peculiarities to each type" or something to that effect.

I read over the Gulenko article. From what I deciphered there are not eight different sub-types but four.

There is a leader, there is a creator, a normalizer and a harmonizer.

Not only this, but the internal laws of the quadra itself operate in a similar way.

The "Leader" emphasizes a need for contact with others(E), systematic behavior(J) and adaption to change(Ej). The equivalent of the extraverted rational of a quadra.

The "Creator" emphasizes contact with others(E), non-systematic behavior(P) and is burdened by change(Ep). The equivalent of the extraverted irrational of a quadra.

The "Normalizer" emphasizes a need for distance with others(I), systematic behavior (J) and is burdened by change(Ij). This is the equivalent of the introverted rational of a quadra.

The "Harmonizer" emphasizes a need for distance with others(I), non-systematic behavior(P), and adaption to change(Ip). This is the equivalent of the introverted irrational of a quadra.

I'm not sure where I would fall in here. I guess I would have to be around other ENTps to find out. I'd say normalizer though.

I haven't read over the entire article appropriately yet, so I may have missed something.

I have noticed that Gulenko is careful not assume that the laws at the macro level apply at the micro level. cheers to him on that one!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03/05/2007, 08:19 PM
Don Don is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 40
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Epic View Post
I read over the Gulenko article. From what I deciphered there are not eight different sub-types but four.
Here is a quote from the article:
"Most frequently our school determines octal subtype not dichotomous, but through strengthening by one of eight functions of sotsionicheskoy model."

... although the article does talk about four subtypes.

Last edited by Don; 03/05/2007 at 08:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03/05/2007, 08:25 PM
Don Don is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 40
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SG View Post
I'll have a look, maybe it's on my old laptop.
Cool
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03/05/2007, 08:43 PM
Epic's Avatar
Epic Epic is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 460
Default

so if this is real, what sub-types do you think you all are?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03/05/2007, 09:45 PM
SG's Avatar
SG SG is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,521
Default

I'll probably sound like an old fart, but there are 2 sides to socionics. You can play with it or you can use it. I don't think it is necessary to mix socionics with personality.

Ok there are 16 types. This could be obvious or very confusing depending on the angle of view you take. If you start paying too much attention to personality then 16 types would not be enough of course. That's why it is better to live personality out of it.

Lets say you've noticed that people of the same type have different personalities (which by the way OBVIOUS) You create 16x8 types subtypes (1 for each function) = 128, trying to explain it, and it all goes well but then you notice that people of the 5th type with 7th subtype could have different personalities too. So you come up with even crazier division and so on and so forth, and at the end you cant use any of it anywhere for anything, except as a fertilizer.

So don't mix types and personalities folks!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03/05/2007, 10:31 PM
Epic's Avatar
Epic Epic is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 460
Default

The breakdown goes on forever and forever.


That is why I say that socionics is just projecting basic a priori human logic(which is essentially the same for everyone) onto our reality. The rules stay the same regardless of frame of reference(that being focusing on one psyche, many similar psyches, many different psyches). The rules of classification are always the same, as are the way the classifications interact.

But I say SG is a normalizer.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04/05/2007, 12:38 AM
SG's Avatar
SG SG is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,521
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Epic View Post

But I say SG is a normalizer.
That's better
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04/05/2007, 01:54 AM
Epic's Avatar
Epic Epic is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 460
Default

GRRRRRRRR!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12/05/2007, 08:23 PM
machintruc machintruc is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 13
Thumbs down

This site says that subtypes don't exist...
http://babelfish.altavista.com/babel...%2ferrors.html

See article #8
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 13/05/2007, 02:15 AM
SG's Avatar
SG SG is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,521
Default

It all depends on how you define what is subtype.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 13/05/2007, 04:01 AM
Jadae Jadae is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 103
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ValerieUGA View Post
Finally, a Freudian approach personality! Everything can be deduced by stimulus and response, even personality. It's too granulated. Makes it appear reductive. But I might not have understood it clearly. Hard to read, yes?

My take is that it is over the top. There is no need to further detail a theory already so grandiose already. Such a select few would care to memorize it even if true.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 13/05/2007, 08:33 PM
Epic's Avatar
Epic Epic is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 460
Default

I have been playing with the four subtypes per type over the past week and it is fun. I don't take it too seriously, but I think there is something to it.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 13/05/2007, 08:47 PM
machintruc machintruc is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 13
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Epic View Post
I have been playing with the four subtypes per type over the past week and it is fun. I don't take it too seriously, but I think there is something to it.
I think subtypes shouldn't be built on accented information elements, but rather on catecholamine levels, such as dopamin-norepinephrin-serotonin.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 13/05/2007, 08:51 PM
SG's Avatar
SG SG is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,521
Default

Because you can measure those levels to start with..., how?
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 13/05/2007, 09:51 PM
machintruc machintruc is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 13
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SG View Post
Because you can measure those levels to start with..., how?
dopamin : low = rather passive, withdrawn, lazy ; high = motivated, assertive, energitic.
norepinephrin : low = calm, contained ; high = nervous, restless.
serotonin : low = moody, aggressive, pessimistic ; high = happy, enthusiastic, optimistic.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2007 SOCIONICS.COM