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  #1  
Old 06/10/2009, 11:12 PM
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Default Typing Genius & Giftedness . . .

How do you think the unique or extraordinary qualities and abilities of the various types intersect with genius or giftedness?
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Old 07/10/2009, 01:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Elevate View Post
How do you think the unique or extraordinary qualities and abilities of the various types intersect with genius or giftedness?
It's a trivial fact that some types are -- on average -- more intelligent than others. But to determine exactly what functions or other qualities are most relevant when it comes to explain the general IQ differences among the types is a somewhat more difficult matter.
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Old 07/10/2009, 01:18 PM
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It's a trivial fact that some types are -- on average -- more intelligent than others.
Rubbish. Even if you use -- on average -- you won't get away with it

Intelligence in its broad interpretation is the ability to learn and apply the knowledge. It depends more on how well oiled are the contents under your scalp than on how they are arranged.
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Old 07/10/2009, 02:24 PM
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Chances are it is more a matter of different types of intelligence. So maybe the question is what kind of intelligence is each type more likely to demonstrate because of it characteristics?

Quote:

The Nine Types of Intelligence

By Howard Gardner


1. Naturalist Intelligence (“Nature Smart”)

Designates the human ability to discriminate among living things (plants, animals) as well as sensitivity to other features of the natural world (clouds, rock configurations). This ability was clearly of value in our evolutionary past as hunters, gatherers, and farmers; it continues to be central in such roles as botanist or chef. It is also speculated that much of our consumer society exploits the naturalist intelligences, which can be mobilized in the discrimination among cars, sneakers, kinds of makeup, and the like.

2. Musical Intelligence (“Musical Smart”)

Musical intelligence is the capacity to discern pitch, rhythm, timbre, and tone. This intelligence enables us to recognize, create, reproduce, and reflect on music, as demonstrated by composers, conductors, musicians, vocalist, and sensitive listeners. Interestingly, there is often an affective connection between music and the emotions; and mathematical and musical intelligences may share common thinking processes. Young adults with this kind of intelligence are usually singing or drumming to themselves. They are usually quite aware of sounds others may miss.


3. Logical-Mathematical Intelligence (Number/Reasoning Smart)

Logical-mathematical intelligence is the ability to calculate, quantify, consider propositions and hypotheses, and carry out complete mathematical operations. It enables us to perceive relationships and connections and to use abstract, symbolic thought; sequential reasoning skills; and inductive and deductive thinking patterns. Logical intelligence is usually well developed in mathematicians, scientists, and detectives. Young adults with lots of logical intelligence are interested in patterns, categories, and relationships. They are drawn to arithmetic problems, strategy games and experiments.


4. Existential Intelligence

Sensitivity and capacity to tackle deep questions about human existence, such as the meaning of life, why do we die, and how did we get here.

5. Interpersonal Intelligence (People Smart”)

Interpersonal intelligence is the ability to understand and interact effectively with others. It involves effective verbal and nonverbal communication, the ability to note distinctions among others, sensitivity to the moods and temperaments of others, and the ability to entertain multiple perspectives. Teachers, social workers, actors, and politicians all exhibit interpersonal intelligence. Young adults with this kind of intelligence are leaders among their peers, are good at communicating, and seem to understand others’ feelings and motives.

6. Bodily-Kinesthetic Intelligence (“Body Smart”)

Bodily kinesthetic intelligence is the capacity to manipulate objects and use a variety of physical skills. This intelligence also involves a sense of timing and the perfection of skills through mind–body union. Athletes, dancers, surgeons, and craftspeople exhibit well-developed bodily kinesthetic intelligence.

7. Linguistic Intelligence (Word Smart)

Linguistic intelligence is the ability to think in words and to use language to express and appreciate complex meanings. Linguistic intelligence allows us to understand the order and meaning of words and to apply meta-linguistic skills to reflect on our use of language. Linguistic intelligence is the most widely shared human competence and is evident in poets, novelists, journalists, and effective public speakers. Young adults with this kind of intelligence enjoy writing, reading, telling stories or doing crossword puzzles.

8. Intra-personal Intelligence (Self Smart”)

Intra-personal intelligence is the capacity to understand oneself and one’s thoughts and feelings, and to use such knowledge in planning and directioning one’s life. Intra-personal intelligence involves not only an appreciation of the self, but also of the human condition. It is evident in psychologist, spiritual leaders, and philosophers. These young adults may be shy. They are very aware of their own feelings and are self-motivated.

9. Spatial Intelligence (“Picture Smart”)

Spatial intelligence is the ability to think in three dimensions. Core capacities include mental imagery, spatial reasoning, image manipulation, graphic and artistic skills, and an active imagination. Sailors, pilots, sculptors, painters, and architects all exhibit spatial intelligence. Young adults with this kind of intelligence may be fascinated with mazes or jigsaw puzzles, or spend free time drawing or daydreaming.


For example, it is more than reasonable to assume that NT types including TP and TJs are more likely to do better at math or logical-mathematical intelligence more than other types, right?
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Old 07/10/2009, 04:33 PM
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When I was at school, I knew an Fi type who's IQ was pretty much through the roof. It's one of few people i've met who I can tell was a lot more intelligent than me (lol at that statement, just that she was *really* smart).

Like, she was the girl who had people visit it her from some sort of government educational authority when she was young at school, related to her intelligence.

She could do any subject really well, even art she was still good, good at sciences and math.

Still, she responded to T in a sense also just for general things in life, quick choices and decisions... how to make sense of stuff, eg something just happened, so here's the logical sense of what happened etc .....

Academia success/potential and people living lives don't have to be same thing.

Anyhoo, in regards to genius and giftedness, can have a gifted person who doesn't do anything with their gift. Genius on the face of it sounds to me like more so related to accomplishments.

Some smart people don't know how to get on with people, some average people get on really well with others, it's called EQ or some such.

Also know someone who's a surgeon and his boss is an ISFp, and a pretty smart one at that.

Dunno about relating the types to "genius", I mean, say you have an Si dominant who's a genius at lying on the couch watching TV and eating munchies, society doesn't applaud that.

When reading about who Einstein settled with, she was a woman who provided him with a comfortable living space, made sure he was looked after, his study was tidy and nicely decorated, probably helped him focus on more existential things.

Fictional character House, probably an ISTp (interestingly based on Holmes who's ESTj, notice the similarities in names? Holmes was used as a method to base the character House on).

Anyway it seems to me that even though House would be classed as a genius, his team is really there to provide new ideas for him to consider (could be Ne seeking related), then he decides if they are good or not.

Hmmm, talking a lot, i've know people of many types with a natural gift for music etc, dunno if this can be type related. I suppose it can if a person finds a niche where their strongest functions are most utitised then it helps.

Although, intelligence isn't type related, plenty types are clever.

etc!!!!

Last edited by Cyclops; 07/10/2009 at 04:39 PM.
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  #6  
Old 07/10/2009, 04:40 PM
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Although, intelligence isn't type related, plenty types are clever.

etc!!!!
That is why I listed the different types of intelligence and asked the question, whether type was related to a particular type of intelligence, not necessarily IQ. Each type has its strengths and weaknesses, and the question is how would the strengths of each type lead some types to do better or excel in some areas compared to others.
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Old 07/10/2009, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Elevate View Post
That is why I listed the different types of intelligence and asked the question, whether type was related to a particular type of intelligence, not necessarily IQ. Each type has its strengths and weaknesses, and the question is how would the strengths of each type lead some types to do better or excel in some areas compared to others.
Ok, i'll try and answer:

. Naturalist Intelligence (“Nature Smart”)

Designates the human ability to discriminate among living things (plants, animals) as well as sensitivity to other features of the natural world (clouds, rock configurations). This ability was clearly of value in our evolutionary past as hunters, gatherers, and farmers; it continues to be central in such roles as botanist or chef. It is also speculated that much of our consumer society exploits the naturalist intelligences, which can be mobilized in the discrimination among cars, sneakers, kinds of makeup, and the like.

I don't think this is type related.


2. Musical Intelligence (“Musical Smart”)


Musical intelligence is the capacity to discern pitch, rhythm, timbre, and tone. This intelligence enables us to recognize, create, reproduce, and reflect on music, as demonstrated by composers, conductors, musicians, vocalist, and sensitive listeners. Interestingly, there is often an affective connection between music and the emotions; and mathematical and musical intelligences may share common thinking processes. Young adults with this kind of intelligence are usually singing or drumming to themselves. They are usually quite aware of sounds others may miss.

Have seen a variation in type with this ability


3. Logical-Mathematical Intelligence (Number/Reasoning Smart)


Logical-mathematical intelligence is the ability to calculate, quantify, consider propositions and hypotheses, and carry out complete mathematical operations. It enables us to perceive relationships and connections and to use abstract, symbolic thought; sequential reasoning skills; and inductive and deductive thinking patterns. Logical intelligence is usually well developed in mathematicians, scientists, and detectives. Young adults with lots of logical intelligence are interested in patterns, categories, and relationships. They are drawn to arithmetic problems, strategy games and experiments.

Could be N and T related, but have known many types with a gift for mathematics.


4. Existential Intelligence


Sensitivity and capacity to tackle deep questions about human existence, such as the meaning of life, why do we die, and how did we get here.

Any type has ability to do this.


5. Interpersonal Intelligence (People Smart”)


Interpersonal intelligence is the ability to understand and interact effectively with others. It involves effective verbal and nonverbal communication, the ability to note distinctions among others, sensitivity to the moods and temperaments of others, and the ability to entertain multiple perspectives. Teachers, social workers, actors, and politicians all exhibit interpersonal intelligence. Young adults with this kind of intelligence are leaders among their peers, are good at communicating, and seem to understand others’ feelings and motives.

Could be F related, but for instance i've known a few ESTp's for instance who're skilled interacting with others, infact many types who are. The bold part is probably F related. The jobs it describes, i've known all types who're good at those jobs.


6. Bodily-Kinesthetic Intelligence (“Body Smart”)


Bodily kinesthetic intelligence is the capacity to manipulate objects and use a variety of physical skills. This intelligence also involves a sense of timing and the perfection of skills through mind–body union. Athletes, dancers, surgeons, and craftspeople exhibit well-developed bodily kinesthetic intelligence.

You could say this is S related, even Si, but i've known N types who are born with the bodies of natural athletes, and also born with great hand to eye co-ordination and can manipultate objects for instance very well. Have also know S types with poor physical bodies and not great hand to eye contact, even balance (which can be genetic due to inner ear problems, probably even other parts of brain).


7. Linguistic Intelligence (Word Smart)


Linguistic intelligence is the ability to think in words and to use language to express and appreciate complex meanings. Linguistic intelligence allows us to understand the order and meaning of words and to apply meta-linguistic skills to reflect on our use of language. Linguistic intelligence is the most widely shared human competence and is evident in poets, novelists, journalists, and effective public speakers. Young adults with this kind of intelligence enjoy writing, reading, telling stories or doing crossword puzzles.

Have seen all types with this ability.


8. Intra-personal Intelligence (Self Smart”)


Intra-personal intelligence is the capacity to understand oneself and one’s thoughts and feelings, and to use such knowledge in planning and directioning one’s life. Intra-personal intelligence involves not only an appreciation of the self, but also of the human condition. It is evident in psychologist, spiritual leaders, and philosophers. These young adults may be shy. They are very aware of their own feelings and are self-motivated.

Don't really understand this one.


9. Spatial Intelligence (“Picture Smart”)


Spatial intelligence is the ability to think in three dimensions. Core capacities include mental imagery, spatial reasoning, image manipulation, graphic and artistic skills, and an active imagination. Sailors, pilots, sculptors, painters, and architects all exhibit spatial intelligence. Young adults with this kind of intelligence may be fascinated with mazes or jigsaw puzzles, or spend free time drawing or daydreaming.

Have know all types with this ability.


I think some types are maybe drawn to some of these aspects, but some are drawn to completely different things. Don't know if this helps, hmmmm. Probably not, maybe someone else can answer
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  #8  
Old 07/10/2009, 05:10 PM
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But Cy, simply because a wide variety of people with differing types may demonstrate characteristics of the various types of intelligence, isn't it likely that some types will demonstrate a stronger affinity* (probably not the right word) for a particular intelligence in comparison to other types because of their characteristics and strengths?

Is it really accurate to say that each type is equally capable in every area?
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Old 07/10/2009, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by SG View Post
Rubbish. Even if you use -- on average -- you won't get away with it
Rubbish. You don't know what you are talking about. What I claim is clearly true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SG
Intelligence in its broad interpretation is the ability to learn and apply the knowledge.
More or less, yes. Intelligence is the ability to think abstractly and to solve problems -- or if you prefer the operational definition, which is even more accurate and exact, that intelligence is what we measure with IQ tests.

Quote:
It depends more on how well oiled are the contents under your scalp than on how they are arranged.
That may or may not be true, but it still depends on how they are arranged. Socionic type is very clearly correlated with IQ.

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Originally Posted by Elevate View Post
Chances are it is more a matter of different types of intelligence.
No. There is only one type of intelligence that is relevant in this context, and that is that kind of intelligence that you can measure with IQ tests.

Last edited by Prometheus; 07/10/2009 at 10:30 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 08/10/2009, 05:33 AM
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No. There is only one type of intelligence that is relevant in this context, and that is that kind of intelligence that you can measure with IQ tests.
I disagree.
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Old 08/10/2009, 12:01 PM
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I disagree.
Irrelevant. You are wrong.
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Old 08/10/2009, 12:56 PM
Cyclops Cyclops is offline
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Originally Posted by Elevate View Post
But Cy, simply because a wide variety of people with differing types may demonstrate characteristics of the various types of intelligence, isn't it likely that some types will demonstrate a stronger affinity* (probably not the right word) for a particular intelligence in comparison to other types because of their characteristics and strengths?

Is it really accurate to say that each type is equally capable in every area?
I think that the problem is with the descriptions of different intelligence that you posted, at least I can't attach them to a given type with what I see as a decent level of acceptibility.

For instance:



Quote:
9. Spatial Intelligence (“Picture Smart”)
Quote:

Spatial intelligence is the ability to think in three dimensions. Core capacities include mental imagery, spatial reasoning, image manipulation, graphic and artistic skills, and an active imagination. Sailors, pilots, sculptors, painters, and architects all exhibit spatial intelligence. Young adults with this kind of intelligence may be fascinated with mazes or jigsaw puzzles, or spend free time drawing or daydreaming.
To me this (like the others) is really vague, technically Se is good at manipulating it's physical environment but this description is talking about among other things what's really thinking ability (not in the socionic sense), and then goes on to talk about an active imagination so it's not really saying anything specific. For instance, "Sailors, pilots" - there is an area in the brain which has been shown to be larger in taxi drivers in comparison to non taxi drivers, it's also shown that this area of the brain increases in size the longer a person is a taxi driver, and that this particular area of brain if it isn't able to grow sufficiently then people drop out of taxi'ing, so is it really fair to relate this to a specific type? As sailors and pilots use the same navigational system, sort of like what birds do when they navigate - hey, did you know that carrier pigeons for instance use roads to navigate the country? How interesting. So you can see the problems in relating this to types.




Quote:
Is it really accurate to say that each type is equally capable in every area?
I don't think so, hence why people have strong functions and weaker functions, but I can't see these more natural capablities being explained with the definitions you've supplied.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Prometheus View Post
It's a trivial fact that some types are -- on average -- more intelligent than others. But to determine exactly what functions or other qualities are most relevant when it comes to explain the general IQ differences among the types is a somewhat more difficult matter.
I'll bet you'll never provide any explanation or reasoning as to why this is the case, this is based on 1) How you normally argue and 2) There's no proof or valid reasoning to support it.

Let's hope you'll suprise me over No 1, because charlatans such as yourself deserve to be exposed.

Last edited by Cyclops; 08/10/2009 at 01:05 PM.
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Old 08/10/2009, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
I think that the problem is with the descriptions of different intelligence that you posted, at least I can't attach them to a given type with what I see as a decent level of acceptibility.

For instance:





To me this (like the others) is really vague, technically Se is good at manipulating it's physical environment but this description is talking about among other things what's really thinking ability (not in the socionic sense), and then goes on to talk about an active imagination so it's not really saying anything specific. For instance, "Sailors, pilots" - there is an area in the brain which has been shown to be larger in taxi drivers in comparison to non taxi drivers, it's also shown that this area of the brain increases in size the longer a person is a taxi driver, and that this particular area of brain if it isn't able to grow sufficiently then people drop out of taxi'ing, so is it really fair to relate this to a specific type? As sailors and pilots use the same navigational system, sort of like what birds do when they navigate - hey, did you know that carrier pigeons for instance use roads to navigate the country? How interesting. So you can see the problems in relating this to types.




I don't think so, hence why people have strong functions and weaker functions, but I can't see these more natural capablities being explained with the definitions you've supplied.


I'll bet you'll never provide any explanation or reasoning as to why this is the case, this is based on 1) How you normally argue and 2) There's no proof or valid reasoning to support it.


Let's hope you'll suprise me over No 1, because charlatans such as yourself deserve to be exposed.
Ok, I see where you're coming from.
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