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Old 28/11/2008, 10:40 PM
sunnycalih sunnycalih is offline
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Question ENFP engaged to ESTP. Need Help.

Hello,

So this is my first thread here, I am an ENFP. I have been engaged for about 11 months to a man i love very much. Until yesterday, we have been the apple of eachother's eyes. I have always thought of him as an ISTJ, because he is opinionated and distanced from people, and just defintiely an ST . He has not taken the test, as he only speaks spanish, and when I tried translating, I was definitely putting my ENFP spin on the questions. So I'd settled w/ my best educated guess.

Some things had just never fit, however. He loves telling stories, involving many personal details, and loves going to parties. He also avoids talking things out and goes quiet when something unpleasant arrises.

To make a long story short, yesterday I found myself reading Please Understand Me II again, as we had our 1st arguement (yes. 1st). I began reading about different types, and came upon ESTP. It could not be more dead on. It explains how he is very good w/ money, and wants to provide for me (which I previously saw as an SJ sign), but how he also will go blow $250 on a gold ring I never asked for. Two actually. And also explains why he is so distanced from people, and has no real close acquaintances, but is also the life of the party, and knows half the city by name, conflicts which used to baffle me.

As an Idealist, and an ENFP, I have attacks where life just intimidates me. It seems so huge and overwhelming, and there are just so many questions I have, and what if I make a bad decision? What if I take the wrong career path? What if our relationship somehow doesn't work out? and what if I bore him, and what if he bores me? and what if what if what if. And I naturally tend to turn to him for reassurance during these times. But i'm usually in a very concerned mood. Not down, but certainly not fun and bubbly. This, i'm finding, is very draining on him. I had no idea before, but now can totally see it.

I'm really concerned after reading here about how we are a Super-Ego Pair. It's really frightening me because I love him so much. We're engaged. We're getting an apartment in January. We are going up to Oregon, and he's going to meet my family in a few weeks for Christmas. He's already met my dad, and I already know his whole family. I want this to work. I know relationships take work, and I know it is not my strong point to stick with someone. The grass is always greener, and what may be is always more interesting than what is, for me. But I love him, and I truely want to put in the effort to actually work at us.

This is true: "These are relations of mutual respect between partners."

This is also very true: "Partners normally think more about expressing their own point of view than listening to their partner."

This is what I feel is happening here: "Partners normally show interest and respect to each other if they do not know each other well enough. When partners start more close interaction, they start experiencing many problems. "

I really hadn't spoken a high level of spanish ever, and I fear we may only now be really getting to know eachother. But any two well developed types can be together, right? I know he loves me, and I know I love him. So how do we make this thing work? I get that our Super-Egos tend to result in: "the confident side of one of the partners reaching the unconfident side of the other partner."

What can be done to remedy this?

THIS CONCERNS ME:"Although the hope and the feeling between partners may remain as before, it does not prevent the conflicts penetrating their relationship."

Then what does? I feel drained today. I feel like, I've fallen from grace with him. Like, he loved me, and I made him happy (the all important thing for an SP), and now i'm not making him happy. Like when I look at him today when I get home, I know I am going to be yearning for him to understand and care how I feel. I'm going to want him to look at the sadness and concern in my eyes, and hug me and tell me sorry and that everything is gonna be ok. But I know that doesn't come naturally for him. And I've been w/ feeling type guys, and I'm not a fan. I'm enough feeling type for any relationship, believe me. But how do I rectify this? I know, from what he has told me, and from what I just read about ESTP's, that that kind of interpersonal tension is one of the main causes for his type to leave a relationship. So going home, feeling sad and concerned and seeking reassurance, will most likely make him feel stressed, because I am not happy and bubbly. I'm sorry, I try to be a joy, but I have my sad times. I don't want so much, just a hug and a realization on his part that he can calm me down and make me happy if he just looks at me confidently and genuinely, and says with a smile "shut up and stop worrying. everything is gonna be fine. I love you." I'm serious. Say that to me, hug me, and I'm good. But I'm concerned that I can not be myself with him. I can not express my concern for the world, and about life, because then I'm being a downer. Keirsey states ESTP's have an innate distrust of Intuition. They see no purpose for it, and have little patience with it. And my extroverted iNtuition is anything but quiet. Again, i'm only recently getting to a point where I can express these things in spanish.

Look, I just need some help. I wanna get back to the feeling I had when I thought he was an SJ. It's ridiculous of me to put him in this box. He has not changed, he's the same person. I don't know why I feel so different today. I love him, I want to build my life with him.

Can anyone help me know how?


Thanks all,

Heather.
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  #2  
Old 01/12/2008, 06:31 AM
amendoza amendoza is offline
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Posts: 46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnycalih View Post
Hello,

So this is my first thread here, I am an ENFP. I have been engaged for about 11 months to a man i love very much. Until yesterday, we have been the apple of eachother's eyes. I have always thought of him as an ISTJ, because he is opinionated and distanced from people, and just defintiely an ST . He has not taken the test, as he only speaks spanish, and when I tried translating, I was definitely putting my ENFP spin on the questions. So I'd settled w/ my best educated guess.

Some things had just never fit, however. He loves telling stories, involving many personal details, and loves going to parties. He also avoids talking things out and goes quiet when something unpleasant arrises.

To make a long story short, yesterday I found myself reading Please Understand Me II again, as we had our 1st arguement (yes. 1st). I began reading about different types, and came upon ESTP. It could not be more dead on. It explains how he is very good w/ money, and wants to provide for me (which I previously saw as an SJ sign), but how he also will go blow $250 on a gold ring I never asked for. Two actually. And also explains why he is so distanced from people, and has no real close acquaintances, but is also the life of the party, and knows half the city by name, conflicts which used to baffle me.

As an Idealist, and an ENFP, I have attacks where life just intimidates me. It seems so huge and overwhelming, and there are just so many questions I have, and what if I make a bad decision? What if I take the wrong career path? What if our relationship somehow doesn't work out? and what if I bore him, and what if he bores me? and what if what if what if. And I naturally tend to turn to him for reassurance during these times. But i'm usually in a very concerned mood. Not down, but certainly not fun and bubbly. This, i'm finding, is very draining on him. I had no idea before, but now can totally see it.

I'm really concerned after reading here about how we are a Super-Ego Pair. It's really frightening me because I love him so much. We're engaged. We're getting an apartment in January. We are going up to Oregon, and he's going to meet my family in a few weeks for Christmas. He's already met my dad, and I already know his whole family. I want this to work. I know relationships take work, and I know it is not my strong point to stick with someone. The grass is always greener, and what may be is always more interesting than what is, for me. But I love him, and I truely want to put in the effort to actually work at us.

This is true: "These are relations of mutual respect between partners."

This is also very true: "Partners normally think more about expressing their own point of view than listening to their partner."

This is what I feel is happening here: "Partners normally show interest and respect to each other if they do not know each other well enough. When partners start more close interaction, they start experiencing many problems. "

I really hadn't spoken a high level of spanish ever, and I fear we may only now be really getting to know eachother. But any two well developed types can be together, right? I know he loves me, and I know I love him. So how do we make this thing work? I get that our Super-Egos tend to result in: "the confident side of one of the partners reaching the unconfident side of the other partner."

What can be done to remedy this?

THIS CONCERNS ME:"Although the hope and the feeling between partners may remain as before, it does not prevent the conflicts penetrating their relationship."

Then what does? I feel drained today. I feel like, I've fallen from grace with him. Like, he loved me, and I made him happy (the all important thing for an SP), and now i'm not making him happy. Like when I look at him today when I get home, I know I am going to be yearning for him to understand and care how I feel. I'm going to want him to look at the sadness and concern in my eyes, and hug me and tell me sorry and that everything is gonna be ok. But I know that doesn't come naturally for him. And I've been w/ feeling type guys, and I'm not a fan. I'm enough feeling type for any relationship, believe me. But how do I rectify this? I know, from what he has told me, and from what I just read about ESTP's, that that kind of interpersonal tension is one of the main causes for his type to leave a relationship. So going home, feeling sad and concerned and seeking reassurance, will most likely make him feel stressed, because I am not happy and bubbly. I'm sorry, I try to be a joy, but I have my sad times. I don't want so much, just a hug and a realization on his part that he can calm me down and make me happy if he just looks at me confidently and genuinely, and says with a smile "shut up and stop worrying. everything is gonna be fine. I love you." I'm serious. Say that to me, hug me, and I'm good. But I'm concerned that I can not be myself with him. I can not express my concern for the world, and about life, because then I'm being a downer. Keirsey states ESTP's have an innate distrust of Intuition. They see no purpose for it, and have little patience with it. And my extroverted iNtuition is anything but quiet. Again, i'm only recently getting to a point where I can express these things in spanish.

Look, I just need some help. I wanna get back to the feeling I had when I thought he was an SJ. It's ridiculous of me to put him in this box. He has not changed, he's the same person. I don't know why I feel so different today. I love him, I want to build my life with him.

Can anyone help me know how?


Thanks all,

Heather.
Hi Heather,

So here's the thing, just like you mentioned things aren't always going to be wonderful and they aren't supposed to be. Now how boring would that be, things can't always be perfect, that's what a relationship is about-working to always better yourselfs. There will always be ups and downs no matter what, life isn't supposed to be a fairy tale-not all the time anyways. So he may not always understand you and you may not always understand him, and that's okay. You will have to learn to communicate with one another-communication is the key to everything-if he doesn't know what's wrong don't let him guess tell him. Because you will only become more upset when he doesn't guess correctly and same goes for him, it's not his fault and it's not your fault-you have to work together in order to make anything work. You say you are engaged-that's wonderful!! But you are worried that you will get tired of him and vice-versa-so in that perspective make sure to always remember what you makes you happy that you are with your significant other and what has kept you there all along, and instead of worrying about getting bored, think of stuff to do and try that will keep both of you entertained. Learn new things together, try new activities. The key is to stay busy together, and when you aren't busy together always make sure to make time for one another and remind one another that even though you are busy you haven't forgotten about them. And as for not being yourself with him-you are going to have to be, especially if you say you love him and want to spend the rest of your life with him-you say he loves you, then he will love you no matter what. And if you don't want gifts such as the rings he gave you, mention to him how maybe next time he could spend that money on something you would like to do-maybe a nice outing, just something you would prefer to the ring. He's just trying to please you, and unless you say something he isn't going to know that you would rather him not get you the ring. Relax and enjoy the ride, realize that you are happy with him as he is with you-even if you both aren't interested in the same things or don't have the same ideas.
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  #3  
Old 01/12/2008, 08:22 AM
Cyclops Cyclops is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnycalih View Post
Hello,

So this is my first thread here, I am an ENFP. I have been engaged for about 11 months to a man i love very much. Until yesterday, we have been the apple of eachother's eyes. I have always thought of him as an ISTJ, because he is opinionated and distanced from people, and just defintiely an ST . He has not taken the test, as he only speaks spanish, and when I tried translating, I was definitely putting my ENFP spin on the questions. So I'd settled w/ my best educated guess.

Some things had just never fit, however. He loves telling stories, involving many personal details, and loves going to parties. He also avoids talking things out and goes quiet when something unpleasant arrises.

To make a long story short, yesterday I found myself reading Please Understand Me II again, as we had our 1st arguement (yes. 1st). I began reading about different types, and came upon ESTP. It could not be more dead on. It explains how he is very good w/ money, and wants to provide for me (which I previously saw as an SJ sign), but how he also will go blow $250 on a gold ring I never asked for. Two actually. And also explains why he is so distanced from people, and has no real close acquaintances, but is also the life of the party, and knows half the city by name, conflicts which used to baffle me.

As an Idealist, and an ENFP, I have attacks where life just intimidates me. It seems so huge and overwhelming, and there are just so many questions I have, and what if I make a bad decision? What if I take the wrong career path? What if our relationship somehow doesn't work out? and what if I bore him, and what if he bores me? and what if what if what if. And I naturally tend to turn to him for reassurance during these times. But i'm usually in a very concerned mood. Not down, but certainly not fun and bubbly. This, i'm finding, is very draining on him. I had no idea before, but now can totally see it.

I'm really concerned after reading here about how we are a Super-Ego Pair. It's really frightening me because I love him so much. We're engaged. We're getting an apartment in January. We are going up to Oregon, and he's going to meet my family in a few weeks for Christmas. He's already met my dad, and I already know his whole family. I want this to work. I know relationships take work, and I know it is not my strong point to stick with someone. The grass is always greener, and what may be is always more interesting than what is, for me. But I love him, and I truely want to put in the effort to actually work at us.

This is true: "These are relations of mutual respect between partners."

This is also very true: "Partners normally think more about expressing their own point of view than listening to their partner."

This is what I feel is happening here: "Partners normally show interest and respect to each other if they do not know each other well enough. When partners start more close interaction, they start experiencing many problems. "

I really hadn't spoken a high level of spanish ever, and I fear we may only now be really getting to know eachother. But any two well developed types can be together, right? I know he loves me, and I know I love him. So how do we make this thing work? I get that our Super-Egos tend to result in: "the confident side of one of the partners reaching the unconfident side of the other partner."

What can be done to remedy this?

THIS CONCERNS ME:"Although the hope and the feeling between partners may remain as before, it does not prevent the conflicts penetrating their relationship."

Then what does? I feel drained today. I feel like, I've fallen from grace with him. Like, he loved me, and I made him happy (the all important thing for an SP), and now i'm not making him happy. Like when I look at him today when I get home, I know I am going to be yearning for him to understand and care how I feel. I'm going to want him to look at the sadness and concern in my eyes, and hug me and tell me sorry and that everything is gonna be ok. But I know that doesn't come naturally for him. And I've been w/ feeling type guys, and I'm not a fan. I'm enough feeling type for any relationship, believe me. But how do I rectify this? I know, from what he has told me, and from what I just read about ESTP's, that that kind of interpersonal tension is one of the main causes for his type to leave a relationship. So going home, feeling sad and concerned and seeking reassurance, will most likely make him feel stressed, because I am not happy and bubbly. I'm sorry, I try to be a joy, but I have my sad times. I don't want so much, just a hug and a realization on his part that he can calm me down and make me happy if he just looks at me confidently and genuinely, and says with a smile "shut up and stop worrying. everything is gonna be fine. I love you." I'm serious. Say that to me, hug me, and I'm good. But I'm concerned that I can not be myself with him. I can not express my concern for the world, and about life, because then I'm being a downer. Keirsey states ESTP's have an innate distrust of Intuition. They see no purpose for it, and have little patience with it. And my extroverted iNtuition is anything but quiet. Again, i'm only recently getting to a point where I can express these things in spanish.

Look, I just need some help. I wanna get back to the feeling I had when I thought he was an SJ. It's ridiculous of me to put him in this box. He has not changed, he's the same person. I don't know why I feel so different today. I love him, I want to build my life with him.

Can anyone help me know how?


Thanks all,

Heather.
Hmm.. You are probably best listening to Amendoza here.. F types probably give better relationship advice What would concern me is that it sounds like you don't really know him yet. But he doesn't sound like a bad guy. Maybe take some time to get to know him better. Either way you like him so you know what you want.

Super ego relations can be OK IMO, the only problem i've had is when I get closer to them I find their style of working or communicating or views to be too different from mine. But variety is the spice of life

If he is ESTp, then the reality is he probably won't open up in the way you would like, due to him having something called Fi PoLR. You may find he likes it when you or people are more externally bubbly etc. which may not always be your natural cup of tea. But all relations take work and I hope it works out for you.

Well, um theirs my relationship advice with some socionic stuff about your relationship. Good luck
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  #4  
Old 03/12/2008, 07:09 AM
amendoza amendoza is offline
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Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
Hmm.. You are probably best listening to Amendoza here.. F types probably give better relationship advice What would concern me is that it sounds like you don't really know him yet. But he doesn't sound like a bad guy. Maybe take some time to get to know him better. Either way you like him so you know what you want.

Super ego relations can be OK IMO, the only problem i've had is when I get closer to them I find their style of working or communicating or views to be too different from mine. But variety is the spice of life

If he is ESTp, then the reality is he probably won't open up in the way you would like, due to him having something called Fi PoLR. You may find he likes it when you or people are more externally bubbly etc. which may not always be your natural cup of tea. But all relations take work and I hope it works out for you.

Well, um theirs my relationship advice with some socionic stuff about your relationship. Good luck
Aww, thanks Cyclops-the part about getting to know him better is always a good idea, and since she cares for him this is something that she should probably do.
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  #5  
Old 06/12/2008, 02:10 AM
sunnycalih sunnycalih is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3
Smile

I can't tell you how much your responses have helped me I definitely was over analyzing everything, and had gotten in a rut. I've realized we are good together, and i do love him, enormously, and want to spend the rest of my life with him.

And you're also right, I may not know him entirely, and really, I'm beginning to think that may be even more of the draw. I like being challenged to figure someone out. I hope he'll always have that hint of a mystery to me.

While this site points out the negatives about our relationship, and that our super-egos hit eachother at our weakest points, I'm still rather unclear on what to do about that. How do I not hit his areas of low self-confidence? How do I recognize when that's what is happening to me? If I could rationalize it away, rather than feeling confused and panicky, I feel we could make some great progress. Does anyone know some active steps we can take towards working these issues out?

Thanks again for responding, I can't explain enough what a relief it has been reading them.

-Heather
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