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  #61  
Old 02/06/2008, 06:52 AM
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But would you say that throughout his life he acted as if he was a normel ESFp or do you think he was possessed by whatever array of impropper functional energies to make him look like an ESFP, but was indeed some other type giving the impression of an ESFp?
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  #62  
Old 02/06/2008, 07:19 AM
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I just noticed this post, but it confirms my suspicion of Hitler's candidacy for 'Performer' socionics type.

(I am INTJ, the opposite)

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Originally Posted by Human s/n #098621 View Post
Rauschning reports, "he does not know how to work steadily. Indeed, he is incapable of working." He dislikes desk work and seldom glances at the piles of reports which are placed on his desk daily. No matter how important these may be or how much his adjutants may urge him to attend to the particular matter, he refuses to take them seriously unless it happens to be a project which interests him. On the whole, few reports interest him unless they deal with military or naval affairs or political matters. He seldom sits in a cabinet meeting because they bore him. On several occasions when sufficient pressure was brought to bear he did attend but got up abruptly during the session and left without apology. Later it was discovered that he had gone to his private theater and had the operator show some film that he particularly liked.

On the whole, he prefers to discuss cabinet matters with each member in person and then communicate his decision to the group as a whole.

"Close collaborators for many years said that Hitler was always like this - that the slightest difficulty or obstacle could make him scream with rage...." Many writers believe that these rages are just play acting. There is much to be said for this point of view since Hitler's first reaction to the unpleasant situation is not indignation, as one would ordinarily expect under these circumstances. He goes off into a rage or tirade without warning. Similarly, when he has finished, there is no aftermath. He immediately cools down and begins to talk about other matters in a perfectly calm tone of voice as though nothing had happened. Occasionally he will look around sheepishly, as if to see if anyone is laughing, and then proceeds with other matters, without the slightest trace of resentment. Some of his closest associates have felt that he induces these rages consciously to frighten those about him.
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Originally Posted by Human s/n #098621 View Post
This is a very fundamental trait in Hitler's character structure: he does not think things out in a logical and consistent fashion, gathering all available information pertinent to the problem, mapping out alternative courses of action and then weighing the evidence pro and con for each of them before reaching a decision. His mental processes operate in reverse. Instead of studying the problem as an intellectual would do he avoids it and occupies himself with other things until unconscious processes furnish him with a solution. Having the solution he then begins to look for facts which will prove that it is correct. In this procedure he is very clever and by the time he presents it to his associates, it has the appearance of a rational judgment. Nevertheless, his thought processes proceed from the emotional to the factual instead of starting with the facts as an intellectual normally does. It is this characteristic of his thinking process which makes it difficult for ordinary people to understand Hitler or to predict his future actions. His orientation in this respect is that of an artist and not that of a statesman.
F - This is obviously not the thinking type.

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Hitler has always been extremely secretive in all his dealings. Hanfstangl tells us that this trait is carried to such a degree that he never tells one of his immediate associates what he has been talking about or arranged with another. His mind is full of compartments, Hanfstangl says, and his dealings with every individual are carefully pigeon-holed. What has been filed in one pigeon-hole is never permitted to mix with that in another. Everything is scrupulously kept locked up in his mind and is only opened when he needs the material.
P - The material is observed without analysis; no decision is made until encouraged by circumstance.

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Originally Posted by kensi View Post
But would you say that throughout his life he acted as if he was a normel ESFp or do you think he was possessed by whatever array of impropper functional energies to make him look like an ESFP, but was indeed some other type giving the impression of an ESFp?
As I said, he was a failed artist that gave drunk speeches to discontented mobs in beer halls...after being involved in a 'beer hall' attempted coup he was sent to jail and martyred for the fascist cause. He has always had predominantly ESFP strengths, and kept them even until his downfall. Just see for yourself.

Last edited by IntjWurm; 02/06/2008 at 07:23 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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  #63  
Old 02/06/2008, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by IntjWurm View Post
As I said, he was a failed artist that gave drunk speeches to discontented mobs in beer halls...after being involved in a 'beer hall' attempted coup he was sent to jail and martyred for the fascist cause. He has always had predominantly ESFP strengths, and kept them even until his downfall. Just see for yourself.
the beerhall scenario does relate to extraverted sensors as i know 'em. I think i see where you're coming from.

INTJWURM,.....are you an MBTI INTJ or a Socionics INTj ?
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  #64  
Old 02/06/2008, 07:30 AM
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Cool - I am a Socionics LII and MBTI INTJ.
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  #65  
Old 02/06/2008, 08:02 AM
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To me he just seemed like your typical ENFj, of course that was back when I knew him in high school, but they say you can't change your type, and in his case i'd say it's true.

He was certainly able to charm the pantaloons off Stalin, who seems very ISTj. Makes sense if Stalin picked up on and was won over by his dual seeking proponents.

What was the name of that secretary he was allegedly privately dating? Dunno, I remember I thought she seemed ISTj though.
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  #66  
Old 02/06/2008, 09:05 AM
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To me he just seemed like your typical ENFj, of course that was back when I knew him in high school, but they say you can't change your type, and in his case i'd say it's true.
.

there are 2 trains of thought really, one i will correlate with destiny: you cant change your type....and the other with free will: you can.

maybe the answer is somewhere in between.

.....getting to the post though......don't you suppose that if a person becomes consumed with anger and hatred that he/she becomes possessed by other arrangements of the functions within his/her psyche so that he/she no longer looks and acts as their own real type ?
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  #67  
Old 02/06/2008, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kensi View Post
there are 2 trains of thought really, one i will correlate with destiny: you cant change your type....and the other with free will: you can.

maybe the answer is somewhere in between.

.....getting to the post though......don't you suppose that if a person becomes consumed with anger and hatred that he/she becomes possessed by other arrangements of the functions within his/her psyche so that he/she no longer looks and acts as their own real type ?
The idea is that your psychological type is just that - it is how you process things at the psychological level. This means that you can have a different personality than someone, but still think in a similar to your same type.

So because you think in a way which is similar to your identical then it does of course mean that it is more likely that you could end up resulting in some similar resonalities or maybe certain values, but it does not mean you will have the same personality.

So I don't believe you change how you process information, but I therefore guess it's possible to change certain aspects of your personality.

So..if someone is mentally ill, it is possible for them to temporarily focus on different information elements and execute them poorly yes, but unless your seriously ill I would not expect a disturbance in your type, but yes on more so on your personality.
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  #68  
Old 02/06/2008, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
The idea is that your psychological type is just that - it is how you process things at the psychological level. This means that you can have a different personality than someone, but still think in a similar to your same type.

So because you think in a way which is similar to your identical then it does of course mean that it is more likely that you could end up resulting in some similar resonalities or maybe certain values, but it does not mean you will have the same personality.

So I don't believe you change how you process information, but I therefore guess it's possible to change certain aspects of your personality.

So..if someone is mentally ill, it is possible for them to temporarily focus on different information elements and execute them poorly yes, but unless your seriously ill I would not expect a disturbance in your type, but yes on more so on your personality.
Neither of us have a phd in psychology so so much of this is just partially educated speculation....but.....what i was trying to get at, hmmm....

lets try this, assuming you're an ISTp like you say you are....the question is: which personality's energies would you have to be possessed by for a good period of time day after day to go nuts (like hitler did)?....thats all i was asking.
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  #69  
Old 02/06/2008, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kensi View Post
Neither of us have a phd in psychology so so much of this is just partially educated speculation....but.....what i was trying to get at, hmmm....
Just to confirm, I have a phd in psychology
Quote:
lets try this, assuming you're an ISTp like you say you are....the question is: which personality's energies would you have to be possessed by for a good period of time day after day to go nuts (like hitler did)?....thats all i was asking.
Putting aside Hilters possible mental conditions, I don't know what personalities energies would make nuts.. Being of a state of focusing on my less confident functions would maybe lead to unfavourable mental states tho.

I couldn't have two actual personalities at the same time though could I unless I was ill?
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  #70  
Old 02/06/2008, 02:31 PM
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Unhappy Do You Feel Like I Do

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Originally Posted by kensi View Post
.....getting to the post though......don't you suppose that if a person becomes consumed with anger and hatred that he/she becomes possessed by other arrangements of the functions within his/her psyche so that he/she no longer looks and acts as their own real type ?
I think that people who cease to think and act on their emotions are 'F' type.
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  #71  
Old 02/06/2008, 04:28 PM
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Exclamation However

High stress, incompetence, and amphetamine addiction ultimately contributed to his demise.
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  #72  
Old 02/06/2008, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntjWurm View Post
I think that people who cease to think and act on their emotions are 'F' type.
It is possible for functions to leapfrog one another so that the overall type pattern still stays in effect, but under this boundary conspicuous patterns emerge which deviate from the normal concensus of that particular type.

That said, the arguement can be made that how is one to be successfull if one doesn't use their regular gifted array of funcyions? and you cant argue that Hitler wasn't successfull, so maybe he was acting to his true type???
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  #73  
Old 02/06/2008, 07:55 PM
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Lightbulb Functional Amplification

Quote:
Originally Posted by kensi View Post
It is possible for functions to leapfrog one another so that the overall type pattern still stays in effect, but under this boundary conspicuous patterns emerge which deviate from the normal concensus of that particular type.

That said, the arguement can be made that how is one to be successfull if one doesn't use their regular gifted array of funcyions? and you cant argue that Hitler wasn't successfull, so maybe he was acting to his true type???
That is possible, but Hitler was also in a position that few others have had to endure...he was making war on almost the entire world, even his former allies. Though this behavior is perhaps useful for establishing regional supremacy in the form of an empire (F), it lacks immediate justification as it could have been averted until more resources were acquired from the vanquished enemies of both Germany and its potential allies, until the balance of power was more evenly distributed between them (T). Hitler cause many potential axis powers to join the allied cause, including Russia (which ultimately halted the Nazis at Stalingrad). Since he was in absolute power, I believe that his individual characteristics bled through the national policy more than might materialize in a sovereign republic under like circumstances.
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  #74  
Old 02/06/2008, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntjWurm View Post
That is possible, but Hitler was also in a position that few others have had to endure...he was making war on almost the entire world, even his former allies. Though this behavior is perhaps useful for establishing regional supremacy in the form of an empire (F), it lacks immediate justification as it could have been averted until more resources were acquired from the vanquished enemies of both Germany and its potential allies, until the balance of power was more evenly distributed between them (T). Hitler cause many potential axis powers to join the allied cause, including Russia (which ultimately halted the Nazis at Stalingrad). Since he was in absolute power, I believe that his individual characteristics bled through the national policy more than might materialize in a sovereign republic under like circumstances.
it's been a good 5 or so years since i watched anything related to this. I'd have to go back and do another assessment perhaps. Anythime you acquire a new set of intuitive knowledge about something you have to go back and upgrade your previous sensory grid to see if it has changed and just how much.

You seem to be very well versed in this area.

Being who he was, Hitler could have had absolutely any lady he wanted in the land. What would you say or guess at , at least , that the MBTI type of Eva Braun was ? (this will help give an intertype reading)
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  #75  
Old 02/06/2008, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kensi View Post
it's been a good 5 or so years since i watched anything related to this. I'd have to go back and do another assessment perhaps. Anythime you acquire a new set of intuitive knowledge about something you have to go back and upgrade your previous sensory grid to see if it has changed and just how much.

You seem to be very well versed in this area.

Being who he was, Hitler could have had absolutely any lady he wanted in the land. What would you say or guess at , at least , that the MBTI type of Eva Braun was ? (this will help give an intertype reading)

I am exactly the same way.

Eva had an interest in photography, and loved to be photographed while sunbathing naked though Hitler despised this; however she was also extremely loyal to Hitler (like most were, of all types); she also disliked being kept in isolation by Hitler, and attempted suicide multiple times, but eventually accepted her role - apparently a lot of the other women Hitler was intimate with committed suicide without her knowledge, including his half-niece...so perhaps ESFP? This is Hitler's type, the sixth commonest type.
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  #76  
Old 02/06/2008, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntjWurm View Post
I am exactly the same way.

Eva had an interest in photography, and loved to be photographed while sunbathing naked though Hitler despised this; however she was also extremely loyal to Hitler (like most were, of all types); she also disliked being kept in isolation by Hitler, and attempted suicide multiple times, but eventually accepted her role - apparently a lot of the other women Hitler was intimate with committed suicide without her knowledge, including his half-niece...so perhaps ESFP? This is Hitler's type, the sixth commonest type.
I dont know myself...but you give me an interesting premise to work off of.
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  #77  
Old 03/06/2008, 06:30 PM
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Hitler was a complicated man that no-one could understand but his woman....
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  #78  
Old 03/06/2008, 07:42 PM
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Hitler was a complicated man that no-one could understand but his woman....
I doubt Eva Braun was even that close to him.
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  #79  
Old 03/06/2008, 10:27 PM
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I doubt Eva Braun was even that close to him.
maybe, if she was his dual, why would she care about any discrepancies the outer world caused her man, if she on a personal level valued what he stood for at least. Remember, we're talking about different times though.
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  #80  
Old 03/06/2008, 10:30 PM
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I doubt Eva Braun was even that close to him.
Adolf and Eve were identical:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ukJiBZ8_4k
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