Go Back   Socionics Forums > Ramble Mumble

Ramble Mumble Anything goes, but please make an effort to stay positive and keep it socionics related.


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #61  
Old 11/03/2006, 07:12 AM
Prometheus's Avatar
Prometheus Prometheus is offline
House Robot
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,022
Default Re: Belief and Logic

Quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Prometheus:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Bone_Roller:
Indubitable truth is only found where we define it and is only doubtless within that scope.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is the above statement an indubitable statement?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No. [/QB]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Prove it.
Here is a proof: I'm not sure I know exactly what it means. Therefore it's easy for me to doubt it.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 11/03/2006, 10:09 AM
SG's Avatar
SG SG is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,502
Default Re: Belief and Logic

This is what I've found on indubitable:

indubitable

<philosophy of science, gnoseology> the characteristic of a proposition whose truth cannot be doubted, such as "My father is older than I am," even though (given bizarre suppositions about time and/or human conception) it might be false. Descartes and other modern philosophers supposed that only such propositions would provide a suitable foundation for human knowledge. Recommended Reading: Michael Williams, Unnatural Doubts (Princeton, 1995); David Owens, Reason Without Freedom: The Problem of Epistemic Normativity (Routledge, 2000); and Nicholas Nathan, The Price of Doubt (Routledge, 2000).

http://www.swif.uniba.it/lei/foldop/...gi?indubitable
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 11/03/2006, 11:19 AM
Prometheus's Avatar
Prometheus Prometheus is offline
House Robot
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,022
Default Re: Belief and Logic

Then I understood the concept "undubitable" correctly. And what I have said so far about undubitable truths is probably true.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 11/03/2006, 11:24 AM
SG's Avatar
SG SG is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,502
Default Re: Belief and Logic

Hey, don't get excited Prom, this is just one definition of indubitable.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 11/03/2006, 11:28 AM
Vibration Vibration is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 448
Default Re: Belief and Logic

Quote:
Originally posted by Prometheus:
Then I understood the concept "undubitable" correctly. And what I have said so far about undubitable truths is probably true.
Hahaha! I LOVE you! Slowly and surely I realize what you're saying.
Is this good or bad?
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 11/03/2006, 11:55 AM
Prometheus's Avatar
Prometheus Prometheus is offline
House Robot
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,022
Default Re: Belief and Logic

Quote:
Hahaha! I LOVE you! Slowly and surely I realize what you're saying.
Is this good or bad?
Don't know.

Do you prefer another definition of "undubitable", SG?
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 11/03/2006, 01:25 PM
SG's Avatar
SG SG is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,502
Default Re: Belief and Logic

It doesn't matter what I prefer, Prom, I am trying to be objective here that's why I'm saying this is A definition of dubitable, and not THE definition, although I know you wish for it to be the only definition since you rely on your disability to take things literally.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 11/03/2006, 02:15 PM
Prometheus's Avatar
Prometheus Prometheus is offline
House Robot
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,022
Default Re: Belief and Logic

You are completely wrong about that, SG. The only thing that matters is which definition you prefer. It doesn't matter at all if the definition we both can agree on is the one preferred by others or not, as long as we know what we are talking about. The above definition of indubitable is what I mean by indubitable. If you have a different concept in mind when you use the word "indubitable", we are simply talking about different things, and, in that case, I suggest you define what you mean by "indubitable".
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 11/03/2006, 04:18 PM
SG's Avatar
SG SG is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,502
Default Re: Belief and Logic

Quote:
Originally posted by Prometheus:
You are completely wrong about that, SG. The only thing that matters is which definition you prefer.
I wonder if you even read what you post. If my definition of a table is an article of furniture supported by one or more vertical legs and having a flat horizontal surface and your definition of it is an orderly arrangement of data, especially one in which the data are arranged in columns and rows in an essentially rectangular form, when I say to you "last night I was sitting at the table and was having my dinner", you would not understand a word I said. This is why it is important to agree on a definition before an argument so people know that they're talking about the same thing. So what I or you personally prefer the definition to be is unimportant, what important is what we all agree upon. Do I really have to explain these trivial things to you as to a child? And before you even think of arguing this point I implore you to read what I just said again and again and again until it starts making sense to you.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 11/03/2006, 05:52 PM
Prometheus's Avatar
Prometheus Prometheus is offline
House Robot
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,022
Default Re: Belief and Logic

Quote:
This is why it is important to agree on a definition before an argument so people know that they're talking about the same thing. So what I or you personally prefer the definition to be is unimportant, what important is what we all agree upon.
That was exactly what I was trying to say. It was never my intention to suggest that I have an opinion on what the definition of indubitable is. I don't care how people define their words as long as I understand which concepts those words stand for.

History is repeating itself. I now have the exact same feeling as I sometimes have had after a discussion with one Quasi-Identical that I have known my whole life. Maybe we have the exact same view on this, SG, maybe not. I can't even determine whether we agree or disagree.

If you still think that I have misunderstood something, I hope that some one, who is not INTj or INTp, could explain to me why SG doesn't understand what I'm trying to say, and why I perhaps miss something essential in what he is trying to say.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 11/03/2006, 06:17 PM
SG's Avatar
SG SG is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,502
Default Re: Belief and Logic

Quote:
Originally posted by Prometheus:
That was exactly what I was trying to say.
What are you talking about?
This:

Quote:
Originally posted by Prometheus:
The only thing that matters is which definition you prefer.
is exactly opposite to this:

Quote:
Originally posted by SG:
So what I or you personally prefer the definition to be is unimportant, what important is what we all agree upon.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 12/03/2006, 01:05 AM
Prometheus's Avatar
Prometheus Prometheus is offline
House Robot
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,022
Default Re: Belief and Logic

Maybe my formulation is misleading. When I say that the "only thing that matters is which definition you prefer" I mean that the important thing is how you define a certain word, and that I understand what you mean by that word. And that is to me the same thing as "what important is what we all agree upon."
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2007 SOCIONICS.COM