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  #301  
Old 14/06/2008, 03:19 PM
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Hm....I couldn't really separate them in my personality. I believe Fi focuses on relations (connections between people), while Fe focuses on atmosphere. That's pretty simplistic, though.



*teared up from laughing* Oh, that was so funny..... Especially the bunny.
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  #302  
Old 04/07/2008, 06:48 PM
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Having discovered Smilexian Socionics and finding it to agree with my own expectations, specifically that the temperament is the most definitive aspect of the persona because it is the most habitually ingrained and is more independent of circumstance than are the avenues of information metabolism, I have decided that I am decidedly IXTj-Ti. I would like to thank everyone for their contributions to this discussion, and I would still like to encourage anyone who has a novel perspective on my type to share it on this thread.
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Thanks. Now I understand why Prom thinks you are the most intelligent person at this forum.
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  #303  
Old 05/07/2008, 09:02 PM
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If the temperament descriptions in S. Socionics are Gulenko's, I would be wary; I am ENFp but fit IP better. Not to say you cannot be I_Tj - just keep that in mind. Honestly, you do seem like someone with a good command of Fi.
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  #304  
Old 05/07/2008, 09:05 PM
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Honestly, you do seem like someone with a good command of Fi.
Yeah, exactly like me.
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  #305  
Old 05/07/2008, 09:27 PM
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If the temperament descriptions in S. Socionics are Gulenko's, I would be wary; I am ENFp but fit IP better. Not to say you cannot be I_Tj - just keep that in mind. Honestly, you do seem like someone with a good command of Fi.
Thanks, I appreciate that. Do you have descriptions for Gulenko's temperaments? I couldn't find them.
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  #306  
Old 05/07/2008, 09:29 PM
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EP Ė Extraverted irrational (flexible-laid back temperament)

Energy exchange. Highly dependant on external information. They are calm when there is no need to use energy, but they switch on with full power when they need to be active. Itís very difficult for them to keep energy expansion at a high level for a longer period of time. In order to have flexible-laid back temperament, people have to be able to do many activities at the same time. (For example J.Caesar, who was able to read, write and talk at the same time)

Emotions and behavior. The main trait of this temperament is the rapid changes in mood and status. This is how they differ from EJ. They canít stand routine and predictability. Emotions seem as unexpected flashes in their generally relaxed mood. In a moment rage can turn into indifference. Note that their emotions depend on the external changes, not on the inner psychological reasons. Their behavior is very hard to analyze because it doesnít follow any linear rules. Instead their behavior resembles a broken curve, because they try to get everything done at the same time. They give an impulse to one activity, continue doing the next activity, etc. (they keep switching between various activities). This is the only way they can get things done and it enables them to achieve a lot more than any other method.


IJ Ė Introverted rational (balanced-stable temperament)

Energy exchange. They always try to conserve energy and keep it for activities that are objectively necessary. They are afraid of excess activity and non-productive exhaustion of their strength. These are the most energy-saving and sensible people. They look restrained and calm and they distance themselves from the meaningless things that happen around them. They are meticulous, and they dislike doing anything differently from the usual pattern. They are very static and inert, but also very steady and they always finish what they started. They can not adapt in rapidly changing and extreme situations. They quickly lose their working capacity and they get ill very often.

Emotions and behavior. At first glance, they seem to have no emotions at all because they are just so good at controlling their emotions. Actually they are just waiting for the right moment to let the emotions out to the right people. They can hold on to emotions for a very long time, which is what makes them the most likely to have accumulated stress. This means that they can get stress because they have been gathering emotions, but havenít been expressing them. They might have random emotional outbursts. The rage of an IJ type is very scary, because he can collect insults for months or even for years. Their behavior is very consistent and predictable. Their actions donít depend on the changes in the environment, they have their own rigid firm moral and practical norms. When there are conflicts between their norms and the reality, they get nervous and they start bottling up bad emotions. They need activities that amuse/entertain them and give them emotional and physical relaxation.

IP Ė Introverted irrational (perception-adapting temperament)

Energy exchange. Energy level is very unstable. They react to discomfort very strongly, which is why they use their energy to avoid unacceptable conditions or to create comfort. On their rare moments of activity, they become similar to the representatives of the EP temperament, but on their moments of inactivity, they seem similar to the representatives of the IJ temperament. They tend to hide from the world and cope with their personal resources, which are bigger than they might seem to others. They are not able to constantly manage with energy exchange rhythm. Their working capacity is smaller than it is for the other temperaments. They only work effectively when they are perceiving the need for it or when there are important circumstances which they canít ignore. There is no point in pushing those people, because they will seemingly agree with the aggressor, but will find ways to evade their duties. They either canít or wonít overwork and they donít share other peopleís enthusiasm in principle.

Emotions and behavior. Highly sensitive to the emotions of others. They canít stand unstable moods or stormy emotions, which is why they avoid conflict and they try to solve misunderstandings. They donít try to change the situation, they adapt to it by showing extraordinary ingenuity and flexibility. In relaxing, comfortable and safe situations they bloom, become good and social people. They try to be good towards their surroundings and act in a kind and caring way. They are pleasant and easygoing people in close relations and cold and distant towards all others. Itís necessary to treat them in a caring and attentive way to preserve their vulnerable emotionality and fragile nervous system.


EJ Ė Extroverted rational (linear-vigorous temperament)

Energy exchange. Clearly noticeably expends energy. Usually gives all that he has. Works swiftly and intensively. As long as he has strength he recklessly wastes it. He uses up all of his energy and then collapses with exhaustion. There is no middle ground: either maximum usage of energy (sometimes close to maximum) or total inactivity.

Emotions and behavior. Straightforward, clear, rough/rigorous, no maneuvering. Not likely to have inner doubts or hesitation. They are sharp and implacable, and their actions are totally predictable. They often end up being the victims of the surroundings Ė non-dutiful other people, unstable situations and chaotic occurrences.
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  #307  
Old 05/07/2008, 09:33 PM
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Thanks. If you identify with irrational introverts, why would you choose ENFp over INFp?
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Thanks. Now I understand why Prom thinks you are the most intelligent person at this forum.
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  #308  
Old 05/07/2008, 09:35 PM
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Thanks, and yes they are the same. If you identify with irrational introverts, why would you choose ENFp over INFp?
Because I am Ne-leading, according to my stepdad and grandmother. My grandmother is probably INFj (and she's invlved with a probable ISTp). My stepdad said relations of Benefit sounded goode (he's ENTj). And ESTp is very hard for me to comprehend.
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  #309  
Old 05/07/2008, 09:55 PM
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Because I am Ne-leading, according to my stepdad and grandmother. My grandmother is probably INFj (and she's invlved with a probable ISTp). My stepdad said relations of Benefit sounded goode (he's ENTj). And ESTp is very hard for me to comprehend.
Well, I can see your concern but I doubt that this will be a major issue with me.
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Thanks. Now I understand why Prom thinks you are the most intelligent person at this forum.
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  #310  
Old 05/07/2008, 09:59 PM
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Well, I can see your concern but I doubt that this will be a major issue with me.
'K then. I'm off. Enjoy.
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  #311  
Old 05/07/2008, 10:05 PM
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'K then. I'm off. Enjoy.
Have a pleasant weekend.
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Thanks. Now I understand why Prom thinks you are the most intelligent person at this forum.
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  #312  
Old 06/07/2008, 05:46 AM
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I think you're right; I noticed today that my Fe is really weak in comparison to my Fi...
Does that mean that I am IJ?
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  #313  
Old 08/07/2008, 04:02 PM
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*shrugs* I don't think it's an IJ indication, but I'm being anal retentive. RSV3 is an INTj with a good command of Fi, so I'd want his confirmation, but it could mean you are INTj. I'm going out on a limb here.
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  #314  
Old 09/07/2008, 03:00 PM
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I think you're right; I noticed today that my Fe is really weak in comparison to my Fi...
Does that mean that I am IJ?
More information but not conclusive for you. Sometimes we can be more confident with our seeking function(s) because it's one we like so are more inclined to use it. We'd prefer that over our PoLR function.
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  #315  
Old 15/09/2008, 02:35 AM
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LSI Premise #1: I fit all 15 LSI Reinin traits, and all of my intertype relations make sense from the perspective of LSI. The logical subtype of ISTj describes me more accurately than any other type or subtype in socionics. I am also more comfortable with LSI functions - I never abandon my Se but I only use it when I know that Ti is not contextually valuable. I agree with Pragmatist Club standards, Beta Quadrant values, Aggressor Romance styles, and Rational-Intratim Temperament habits, and the other LSI Model A functions and information elements fit me very well: I am much likelier to hide Te from others unless I feel like sharing it, and I am absolutely delighted by expressive Fe in attractive girls. Fe and Ni seem to fit with my archetypal anima. When I dream, it is usually of things that may have happened to me far in the past or future, as though my knowledge of different things is allowed to uncoil from itself and encourage a feeling of hope by suppressing any fear-based anticipations. I often experience an incredible rush of Fe as well, that leaves me quite disoriented when I awake but also helps to clear any emotional distress I may have been associating with my life. I tend to see IP and EJ among NFs (victim) as more individually humble (mentor) and socially confident (romantic) and EP and IJ among STs (aggressor) as more socially humble (inspector) and individually confident (conqueror). I hate that Gammas and Deltas take their relationships as black-and-white and so personally as to be egotistical, and do not value their acquaintances or community as much as Beta. Alpha relations seem too idealistic and often less real than dream-like in my opinion, so they depress me somewhat. I love social order, it provides a foundation for the growth of an internally supported civilization and represents to me all that man has accomplished against the elements, chaos, and even the entropic arrow of time. I have no personal value for Si, and Ni as my mobilizing function totally explains why most of the people who were absolutely certain that I was ILI are also no longer in any significant contact with me. It also explains my lifelong battle with 'clairvoyance' and 'internal clocks', or why I have such a good use of intuition for very short periods but I rarely produce anything practical with it - I like to make lists of things that I intuit are important; I can get so obsessive-compulsive about my intuition that I will endlessly make copies of entries from each list and then systematically combine them, but ultimately my intuition has little to do with the way I handle pressure in daily life. I probably value Ni (foresight) more than Ne (insight), but it works much better when I am not trying to use it, as if it was operating independently from the rest of me. The combination of Ni and Fe is perfect as a last resort, for cheering me up, or for filling in holes in the 'big picture' when my other work is complete, but usually it is not necessarily useful to me. While I value resourcefulness, an intuitive strength, I use it only when my primary accepted means are unavailable; however competence and consistency, which are ST values, are always important to me. And while I try to be resourceful, I am often totally oblivious to the value of things around me as per Ne because I am almost always absorbed in some type of abstract structure for which they have no use. I rarely notice when Fi is lacking, but with a lot of effort I can usually understand the other person's perspective - however I ultimately dismiss this as an unwanted influence, and when I overhear negative Fi I am immediately turned off by it. There is not enough order or predictability for me in intuition - as I realize that intuition does not (for me) have as high a yield of producing necessary and lasting physical order in the world I have all but abandoned exercising intuition in favor of uncorrelated specific details and thorough empirical accuracy (I am often overwhelmed with comprehensive details of even negligible consequence for the sake of completeness). This is totally in line with my own philosophy - I am a Frequentist rather than a Bayesian as I indicated in my epistemological inference poll (click here for details); I rarely connect the dots with regard to two independent conditions and if I have no prior experience with a correlation I may ignore it; this is typical of LSI patterns of belief, preparing for the worst case that can be expected rather than combining possibilities intuitively (which can be prone to increases in measurement error and uncertainty). I like to keep the details of sensory experience and other aspects of memory perfectly preserved so that my subsequent impressions do not contaminate them, but I am also very practical and I tend to experience things in the here and now, rather than being imaginative or planning for the future, which I do as an afterthought if at all. I live in the present b/c I like to get things done and I don't like to depend on past expectations in the future. I also realize that I do not have any set long-term goals - the ideal strategies that I follow tend to be short-term and usually represent goals that are related to the acquisition of tactical resources. I am very skeptical of semantic arguments or procedural techniques that are not reproducible. When I try to be intuitive, like by imagining, brain-storming, or free-associating, most of what I get is just random noise, and when I am not trying to use it it becomes a distraction from what is actually important to me; however, I do not require the use of intuition in normal life, and I can exist without it indefinitely. I have a tendency to know what is happening all around me at all times, I even know what is happening behind me without looking, usually with regard to Se. I also can remember something much more quickly when I am presented with one of its constituents, no matter how obscure, in a direct sensory interaction rather than by an indirect or general description, from which I may be otherwise very slow to recognize something specific even if it is very common and familiar (for instance, I can name movies I have only quickly glimpsed but never watched even many years later, or work out melodies I have heard but never played before in my mind using reference pitches from songs I remember distinctly; however, I tend to be slower than others at guessing games like charades that involve vague or incomplete descriptions). When I was young I tended to be more focused on my personal space, personal possessions, and the order inherent in my interaction with the world, to the point of being obsessive-compulsive. Though I was different, I never let anyone take my attention away from what I thought was important, and I never let my intuitive impulses get in the way of watching everything suspiciously. This probably contributed at an early age to my introversion and stubbornness, but I do not regret it. I have a very 'can-do/do-it-yourself' attitude. I realized from a young age that attacks formed from intuition represented unfounded speculation, and that feeling is subjective and does not constitute much of a direct personal attack. Therefore I decided to employ thinking and sensing, which are much harder to deter. I am far more likely to use intuition when I am isolated and sensing when I am surrounded, in fact I have a habit of dreaming when I feel alone and acting suspicious in social situations (this is actually a very extreme manifestation of the ST 'guardian temperament'; in public I will watch unflinchingly my belongings and focus on my priorities despite any inclination or temptation to ignore them, and I have been criticized for this behavior as being too serious, paranoid, or controlling by my more light-hearted companions). I also do things that are typical of LSIs, for instance in high school I used to sing to my sweetheart in Hebrew over the phone on my break, and I liked to play guitar for my friends at parties. I really like formal/impersonal settings and planned activities, and pointless activities wear on my patience. I like to initiate contact with others to suit my objective and I can appear unapproachable, unstoppable, or even belligerent if I so choose. I like to size everyone up physically and watch them constantly for changes in behavior; I am very self-conscious, I don't like to present a weak, negative, or unreasonable impression but ultimately I would rather avoid people who ultimately only understand physical deterrence; at that point I begin to treat them only like unfeeling objects. I used to train three times a week in Krav Maga, which is Israeli martial arts, and I am enlisted in the Navy, but I rarely express myself using violence (however last semester I punched a hole in the kitchen wall over a girl who didn't return my affection). I don't like to cut corners even when I intuit short-cuts, and often I won't even do so for convenience so that I can be a supportive role model and preserve my own work ethic. In class I tend to ignore people who are looking for a distraction or an excuse not to work. When I interact I usually ignore people whose opinions are already in conflict with mine, which forces me to seek like-minded individuals who can help me develop the perspective I have already justified in my mind. I used to read the dictionary and encyclopedia as a child, and I have learned that this is typical for an LSI. I talk to myself when I am thinking and make gestures when I am talking to others so that I have less trouble following myself as I try to express my thoughts (due to interference from an unrestrained but deficient Ne; I believe that my intuition and feeling often combine to make me act in an obsessive-compulsive manner, and I have the most success in neutralizing this disorder when I emphasize Ti and Se).
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Thanks. Now I understand why Prom thinks you are the most intelligent person at this forum.

Last edited by shadowpuppet; 15/09/2008 at 02:36 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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  #316  
Old 15/09/2008, 05:14 AM
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In other words, what is intjwurm's type?
I hope that answers your questions
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Thanks. Now I understand why Prom thinks you are the most intelligent person at this forum.
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  #317  
Old 15/09/2008, 07:54 AM
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I am absolutely delighted by expressive Fe in attractive girls.
Me too!

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I hope that answers your questions
Yes. Thanks for writing a book about your type. Maybe next time you should break it up into chapters.
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  #318  
Old 15/09/2008, 02:10 PM
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Yes. Thanks for writing a book about your type. Maybe next time you should break it up into chapters.
Haha Ryan, I stopped reading it about there: "LSI Premise #1:.."
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  #319  
Old 15/09/2008, 02:19 PM
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I find it increasingly difficult to read long posts, for the most part, not always though
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  #320  
Old 15/09/2008, 03:11 PM
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Me too!

Yes. Thanks for writing a book about your type. Maybe next time you should break it up into chapters.
There's more, I just couldn't fit it into one post...
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