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  #41  
Old 08/08/2007, 01:18 AM
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with an ESFj coworker,
Is that the same co-worker that was ESFp earlier on?
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  #42  
Old 08/08/2007, 01:26 AM
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Nope. I have two ESFp coworkers (one of whom is leaving soon ) and one ESFj coworker. Amongst several other coworkers also.
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  #43  
Old 08/08/2007, 02:15 AM
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INTj maybe.. You might have mistaked Te for Ti and Ni for Ne. It took me about 10 minutes after reading this to rule myself out as INTp.

Extravert (black) intuition

- Estimation of the potential of a person.
- Multipronged perception of the world, of a person. Integral perception of things.
- Ability to see the core, to estimate perspectivity, potential opportunities of ideas and undertakings, insight.
- Search for new ideas, alternatives, ability to see the whole variety of possibilities, to make an optimal choice. Aim on originality, singularity. Paradoxicality of thinking. Spontaneity.
- Sense of humour (inclination to witticisms, puns, polysemy), dreaminess, romanticism, idealism, abstract theorization.
- Aspiration for radical transformations, ability to appear at the necessary time in the necessary place.

Introvert (white) intuition

- Ability to understand interrelation of time, to see tendencies, to predict chapter of possibilities, to see prospects. Inclination to forecasts.
- Comprehension of time as certain substance down to its physical sensation. Posession of “inner watch”.
- Ability to operate with time intervals, to estimate the time needed to do smth., to calculate time needed for someone's actions, to set rate, to operate one’s and other's time.
- Perception of events as certain process. Comprehension of advantages of a situation in the specific moment, actuality, the importance of a certain time moment.
- Aspiration for harmony, balance, adequacy in external and inner world. Mystical feeling.

Extrovert (black) logic

- Ability to estimate business qualities of a person, efficiency of his actions.
- Ability to recreate (to think up and over), to organize, to improve technological process, a technique, algorithm of actions. Precise understanding of a necessary sequence of actions, division of labour.
- Aspiration for efficiency, expediency, utility of one’s and other's actions, decisions.
- Aspiration for accuracy, functionality, practicalness. Inclination to an rationalization activity, inventions.
- Aspiration for reliability, reliable sources and information itself, substantial judgements. Good memory on figures and facts.
- An estimation of quality and value of something. Understanding of operational factors of objects (elasticity, softness, heat conductivity and so forth).

Introvert (white) logic

- Estimation of logicality (consistency) of acts and opinions of a person.
- Comparison, analysis, generalization, systematization of information.
- Comparison according to certain criteria of theories, systems, classifications and so forth, definition of theoretical preconditions, revealing of structure and laws, determination of the verity.
- Orientation on the cause and effect, a consecutive account of one’s judgements.
- Composition of standards, rules, laws. Orientation in hierarchical structure. Fair distribution of anything, granting of equal opportunities.
- Aspiration for symmetry, reproduction of geometrical forms.
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  #44  
Old 08/08/2007, 02:15 AM
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Oh, this is great. Who's got the bigger J?

SG because he knows he is right about B-Liddle, or B-Liddle because he has J-cided to be INTp.

I thought I was INTp once actually, that is, until I saw how f*cked up INTp's actually are. (OR, at least they seem so to me. I seem ****ed up to them. Naw, actually, not that bad. Just totally different TOTALLY different ways of thought.)

It's not what ya duuu, it's how ya think.
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  #45  
Old 08/08/2007, 02:17 AM
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Oh, this is great. Who's got the bigger J?

SG because he knows he is right about B-Liddle, or B-Liddle because he has J-cided to be INTp.

I thought I was INTp once actually, that is, until I saw how f*cked up INTp's actually are. (OR, at least they seem so to me. I seem ****ed up to them. Naw, actually, not that bad. Just totally different TOTALLY different ways of thought.)

It's not what ya duuu, it's how ya think.
INTp if you look at how their functions work, it's just..... WIERD.

INTp is like.... Believe X invent system to rationalize X. X could be anything... even crazy.
INTp seem schizo to me... haha
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  #46  
Old 08/08/2007, 07:24 PM
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I shall evaluate the following with how much I relate to them (comments in italics):

Extravert (black) intuition

- Estimation of the potential of a person.
wtf? As far as I'm aware I don't go around thinking "Hmm.. I could see this person being a chartered accountant" for example. Assuming I've interpreted that correctly.
- Multipronged perception of the world, of a person. Integral perception of things.
What does this mean? If it's seeing more than one side of a situation, yes I do have that ability. If it's more than that.. I really don't get this point.
- Ability to see the core, to estimate perspectivity, potential opportunities of ideas and undertakings, insight.
=/ I don't exactly relate to this, but.. then again I don't exactly understand it too well either. Christ I'm making myself look thick here.
- Search for new ideas, alternatives, ability to see the whole variety of possibilities, to make an optimal choice. Aim on originality, singularity. Paradoxicality of thinking. Spontaneity.
New ideas and alternatives, yes. I wouldn't say I'm *that* spontaneous but I do have my moments. Depends what mood I'm in and how much energy I've got really. I think I tend to have the odd moment of spontaneity, which I then carry forward for future moments of craziness for a while. If that makes any sense whatsoever
- Sense of humour (inclination to witticisms, puns, polysemy), dreaminess, romanticism, idealism, abstract theorization.
What, sense of humour is related to Ne? pfft.. unless I'm taking this too literally (which I can do at times). Unless it means specifically the types of humour listed in the brackets there. If so, then yes. Also the rest to a certain extent.
- Aspiration for radical transformations, ability to appear at the necessary time in the necessary place.
Not really. If something works, what's the point in changing it?

Introvert (white) intuition

- Ability to understand interrelation of time, to see tendencies, to predict chapter of possibilities, to see prospects. Inclination to forecasts.
Often, yes, although I don't normally vocalise it for whatever reasons I might have.
- Comprehension of time as certain substance down to its physical sensation. Posession of “inner watch”.
Again, wtf does this mean?
- Ability to operate with time intervals, to estimate the time needed to do smth., to calculate time needed for someone's actions, to set rate, to operate one’s and other's time.
Not that I'm aware of, but then again I've never really agreed that Ni is simply "Intuition of time" in the literal sense.
- Perception of events as certain process. Comprehension of advantages of a situation in the specific moment, actuality, the importance of a certain time moment.
Again, what does this mean exactly? If it means seeing life as a sequence of events, then yes, pretty much, this is me.
- Aspiration for harmony, balance, adequacy in external and inner world. Mystical feeling.
[i]Definitely. Although I don't really know how to expand upon this comment other than verbosifying it (yeah, I made that word up, get over it already)

Extrovert (black) logic

- Ability to estimate business qualities of a person, efficiency of his actions.
I'm not sure what they mean exactly by "business qualities" (what, how good someone would be at negotiating a business deal?) although the latter part sounds true.
- Ability to recreate (to think up and over), to organize, to improve technological process, a technique, algorithm of actions. Precise understanding of a necessary sequence of actions, division of labour.
This sounds like me, yes.
- Aspiration for efficiency, expediency, utility of one’s and other's actions, decisions.
Hmm.. not as my primary goal, but when I'm working with something, then yes.
- Aspiration for accuracy, functionality, practicalness. Inclination to an rationalization activity, inventions.
If it's something I'm working on, then I'm extremely perfectionistic and pedantic. Otherwise, I'm pretty laid back in that regard. Not sure what the latter part of this point is saying exactly though.
- Aspiration for reliability, reliable sources and information itself, substantial judgements. Good memory on figures and facts.
I think so, yes.
- An estimation of quality and value of something. Understanding of operational factors of objects (elasticity, softness, heat conductivity and so forth).
Seems too general to make a comment on.. give me examples of this and I'll be able to evaluate it better.

Introvert (white) logic

- Estimation of logicality (consistency) of acts and opinions of a person.
eh.. logical consistency is overrated IMO. It doesn't have to line up perfectly to be useful.
- Comparison, analysis, generalization, systematization of information.
eh.. now and again I suppose. Not something I do all the time.
- Comparison according to certain criteria of theories, systems, classifications and so forth, definition of theoretical preconditions, revealing of structure and laws, determination of the verity.
This sounds like more work than I'd ever willingly make the effort to bother with.
- Orientation on the cause and effect, a consecutive account of one’s judgements.
wtf? Half these points really don't make sense to me. I'd probably understand them better if I had examples, but..
- Composition of standards, rules, laws. Orientation in hierarchical structure. Fair distribution of anything, granting of equal opportunities.
eh.. doesn't sound like something I concern myself with much
- Aspiration for symmetry, reproduction of geometrical forms.
meh.. sometimes I suppose. This doesn't sound like something I'd invest a great deal of effort in executing though.

OK, who's next to try and tell me I'm wrong for assuming I'm an INTp based on what I write in my spare time regardless of the fact none of you (as far as I'm aware anyway) have ever met and interacted with me in real life? Why are certain people so hell-bent on trying to prove I'm not an INTp anyway? Is the anti-INTp bias of this site in general so strong that you can't comprehend anyone you don't hate as being INTp? WHAT IS IT?

Note the above is not directed at any one individual, rather anyone who seems to fall under that umbrella.
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  #47  
Old 08/08/2007, 09:20 PM
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So, you're INTp? Join with me, laugh with me and let's all show out how much we like it. C' mon.Let's all start singing. La la la- I' m so happy!
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  #48  
Old 08/08/2007, 09:32 PM
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@BL, god only knows where you dug up all that crap. Those "definitions" of the functions look more like a induced vomit. Ask yourself 1 question: Where do the functions come from? Once you've figured that one out, you'll see what I mean.
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  #49  
Old 08/08/2007, 09:56 PM
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@BL, god only knows where you dug up all that crap. Those "definitions" of the functions look more like a induced vomit. Ask yourself 1 question: Where do the functions come from? Once you've figured that one out, you'll see what I mean.
You can blame me for that I pulled it out of another socionics site, it's probably not Ti enuf for you but Ne enuf for me. Haha.
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  #50  
Old 08/08/2007, 10:01 PM
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*blames hkkmr*
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  #51  
Old 08/08/2007, 10:06 PM
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Assuming you're referring to what I was commenting on (i.e. the Ne-Ni-Te-Ti descriptions), rather than my self-assessment earlier on, then truth be told I don't agree much with those function descriptions anyway (bearing in mind my reaction was more or less "wtf?" to half of them).
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  #52  
Old 08/08/2007, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by BLauritson View Post
Assuming you're referring to what I was commenting on (i.e. the Ne-Ni-Te-Ti descriptions), rather than my self-assessment earlier on, then truth be told I don't agree much with those function descriptions anyway (bearing in mind my reaction was more or less "wtf?" to half of them).
The very fact that the functions were not Ti enuf for you BL makes you seem like you're INTj.... damned if you do damned if you don't so to speak...

Edit: Actually might be Si?

Last edited by hkkmr; 08/08/2007 at 10:14 PM. Reason: Additional comment
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  #53  
Old 09/08/2007, 08:43 AM
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Tell me something, you recognize yourself in the descriptions of type 4 and type 5 the most?
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  #54  
Old 10/08/2007, 07:19 PM
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The very fact that the functions were not Ti enuf for you BL makes you seem like you're INTj.... damned if you do damned if you don't so to speak...

Edit: Actually might be Si?
Ti enough? What does that even mean? Since when did I say I wanted Ti anyway? I basically disagreed on the accuracy of some of the definitions in there (for example, I don't think it's only Ne that deals with imagination, rather both forms of intuition correlate with imagination, albeit in different ways).

How would it be Si? Please enlighten me, I do regret that I lack conscious use of telepathy.

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Tell me something, you recognize yourself in the descriptions of type 4 and type 5 the most?
From what I have read of the descriptions, yes. I must admit I haven't delved too far into the other descriptions yet (got too much going on at the moment to do any serious reading) but I do identify the most with those two types from what I've read of them. The description of the so/sx stacking of type 5 at this website: http://www.ocean-moonshine.net/e1428...position=86:80 describes me perfectly in regards to social matters.
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  #55  
Old 10/08/2007, 10:06 PM
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Ti enough? What does that even mean? Since when did I say I wanted Ti anyway? I basically disagreed on the accuracy of some of the definitions in there (for example, I don't think it's only Ne that deals with imagination, rather both forms of intuition correlate with imagination, albeit in different ways).
When I read it, it was good enuf for me based on my general conceptual models, linguistically it is quite lacking, but conceptually it was fine for me. The message it is attempting to convey that is more then just the words was good enough for my Ne. I patterned matched it with something I am already aware of.

When I posted it, I used Ne because I thought it was relevant to your situation.

Here is where I think you might have rejected it because of Ti, what I posted is not the most logically sound.

"The individual views reality through the lens of logic, immediately recognizing the correctness and appropriateness of things and their proper place in reality and in his system of views and behavior. The person freely makes logical assertions (often exaggerated) about new information and experience."

This is 1st function Ti from wiki-socion.

Let's look at leading Ni function from wiki-socion

"As a base function, Introverted Intuition generally manifests itself through a lack of direct attention to the world around oneself, and a sense of detachment or freedom from worldly affairs. This can lead to a highly developed imagination and very unique mental world, but it can also result in a great deal of laziness and apparent inactivity. Because the individual gets his/her primary information about the world through imagination, a person with base Introverted Intuition may be able to thrive in situations where data are scarce, or where he/she lacks the usual prerequisite experience. However, this may also become a disadvantage if the person ignores real data about the world too much. The ability to transcend the axis of time and understand the cause and effect relationships that occur is also a feature, sometimes resulting in the ability to accurately predict general future trends and outcomes of certain events."

I just saw the way you processed and rejected what was written as Ti rather then Ni.

Ignore the si comment.
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  #56  
Old 10/08/2007, 10:27 PM
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I mean seriously, those descriptions are just awful. They lack any clarity or direction. They are basically "think what you will, I don't care" descriptions.
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  #57  
Old 11/08/2007, 12:45 AM
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Here is where I think you might have rejected it because of Ti, what I posted is not the most logically sound.

"The individual views reality through the lens of logic, immediately recognizing the correctness and appropriateness of things and their proper place in reality and in his system of views and behavior. The person freely makes logical assertions (often exaggerated) about new information and experience."

This is 1st function Ti from wiki-socion.
That doesn't really apply to me. It's something I'm capable of if I make a conscious effort, but I really couldn't care less about logical consistency half the time. It's only if I'm trying to prove something that I really bother to make an effort (in this case, my type argument). Hence why I rejected the function descriptions above - I was going out of my way to analyse them. If it were for someone else, I probably wouldn't have bothered responding.

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Let's look at leading Ni function from wiki-socion

"As a base function, Introverted Intuition generally manifests itself through a lack of direct attention to the world around oneself, and a sense of detachment or freedom from worldly affairs. This can lead to a highly developed imagination and very unique mental world, but it can also result in a great deal of laziness and apparent inactivity. Because the individual gets his/her primary information about the world through imagination, a person with base Introverted Intuition may be able to thrive in situations where data are scarce, or where he/she lacks the usual prerequisite experience. However, this may also become a disadvantage if the person ignores real data about the world too much. The ability to transcend the axis of time and understand the cause and effect relationships that occur is also a feature, sometimes resulting in the ability to accurately predict general future trends and outcomes of certain events."

I just saw the way you processed and rejected what was written as Ti rather then Ni.

Ignore the si comment.
Si comment ignored. My rejection of the comments aside, I definitely identify with the leading Ni description there. I think an important thing to note is that, at least when it comes to forums like this, I'm not necessarily being myself as such. I can't really explain why this is, maybe I just don't feel comfortable revealing my inner world online. At least, not directly anyway. I don't know really.. I'll have to have a think about this.
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  #58  
Old 11/08/2007, 01:02 AM
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Originally Posted by BLauritson View Post
That doesn't really apply to me. It's something I'm capable of if I make a conscious effort, but I really couldn't care less about logical consistency half the time. It's only if I'm trying to prove something that I really bother to make an effort (in this case, my type argument). Hence why I rejected the function descriptions above - I was going out of my way to analyse them. If it were for someone else, I probably wouldn't have bothered responding.
BL, you might have needed to make a effort to do what you did. This doesn't mean it is not your "strong conscious function".

The 1st and 2nd functions are strong conscious functions. And the way you approached the problem presented before you was Ti, in my opinion.

Also look at 7/8th functions of INTj, which are your "strong unconscious functions". I'm getting this info from WikiSocion. I hope this helps you decide. You definately seem INTj to me.

7.Extraverted Logic

The LII can usually sense whether something is impractical or not, but is reluctant to say so without a logical principle in support. He dislikes rote memorization of dates and the like (often going to incredible lengths to avoid it), but paradoxically will often have a mental store of many arcane pieces of information (such as the first 100 digits of pi), usually relating to his specific interests. He often could not care less whether or not this sort of trivia has any practical significance, if he personally finds it interesting.
The LII only exchanges such information in conversation for entertainment, and criticizes overly bland analyses, especially if he feels they lack a strong focus or conclusion.
8. Introverted Intuition

At some point near the beginning of his life, the LII is likely to fall into the depths of nihilism, applying Cartesian doubt to everything he believes, exploring unusual and sometimes unsettling trains of thought. But after a while he realizes the futility of such ways of thinking, and takes the limits of reasoning as a basic part of common sense (Ti).
The LII criticizes others for employing overly obscure or personal concepts, seeing them as pretentious or muddled. He can accurately predict the consequences of actions, but avoids giving warnings to others, preferring to simply make the decisions himself. Broad analyses of historical trends based on factual evidence are uninteresting to him after he has "mined" them for their more salient features or concepts.

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I mean seriously, those descriptions are just awful. They lack any clarity or direction. They are basically "think what you will, I don't care" descriptions.
True, but enough keywords to make a connection to my Ne.

Last edited by hkkmr; 11/08/2007 at 01:02 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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  #59  
Old 11/08/2007, 11:35 AM
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BL, you might have needed to make a effort to do what you did. This doesn't mean it is not your "strong conscious function".

The 1st and 2nd functions are strong conscious functions. And the way you approached the problem presented before you was Ti, in my opinion.
The point I'm trying to make though, is that even if I did use Ti to approach the problem (the assertion of which I have no opinion either way on, as I don't know enough about Ti to identify it) it doesn't mean it's an ego function. People are capable of using their Id functions deliberately, it just takes more effort/energy to do so than to use their ego functions.

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Also look at 7/8th functions of INTj, which are your "strong unconscious functions". I'm getting this info from WikiSocion. I hope this helps you decide. You definately seem INTj to me.
I've already decided that I'm not an INTj, but rather an INTp. Most of my responses in this thread have been me defending my position on the matter. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind debating it, but I just want to make it clear I already have a position which makes me inclined to defend it since various factors in real life, which I can't be bothered to think up and list right now, support this. Either way, I shall continue:

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7.Extraverted Logic

The LII can usually sense whether something is impractical or not, but is reluctant to say so without a logical principle in support.
Not at all - if I think something's impractical, why does it matter whether or not I have some arbitrary logical principle to support it? You don't even need to understand logic to see whether or not something works in practice, you just need a working pair of eyes.

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Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
He dislikes rote memorization of dates and the like (often going to incredible lengths to avoid it), but paradoxically will often have a mental store of many arcane pieces of information (such as the first 100 digits of pi), usually relating to his specific interests.
I wouldn't say I dislike it or avoid it at all. If it's something I want to remember, I'll use any method that works to memorise it. I do seem to know lots of useless information, but not quite as in-depth as the first 100 digits as pi for example.

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Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
He often could not care less whether or not this sort of trivia has any practical significance, if he personally finds it interesting.
I'll admit this part is true, although saying that, I don't actively seek out new information just for its own sake - I need to have a reason to learn something (which of course, could be personal interest).

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Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
The LII only exchanges such information in conversation for entertainment, and criticizes overly bland analyses, especially if he feels they lack a strong focus or conclusion.
Not at all. I'll happily exchange any knowledge I have in conversation if I feel it's relevant - I couldn't care less about coming to a conclusion every time. Why are conclusions so necessary anyway? Some people appreciate just facts on their own.

Right, now for my favourite function:

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
8. Introverted Intuition

At some point near the beginning of his life, the LII is likely to fall into the depths of nihilism, applying Cartesian doubt to everything he believes, exploring unusual and sometimes unsettling trains of thought.
After a brief look at wikipedia on the subject of nihilism (I can't be bothered to study it deeply - I just wanted to know what it is exactly), that doesn't sound like me at all. Well, I wouldn't be one to argue that there is some sort of objective meaning to life, but I don't seem to take that as far as is stated in the wikipedia article on nihilism.

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But after a while he realizes the futility of such ways of thinking, and takes the limits of reasoning as a basic part of common sense (Ti).
eh? I seriously doubt this is me. I do have a fair grounding in reality, but that never stops me from thinking or imagining all sorts of weirdness or other things completely irrelevant to physical reality. Spiritualism is a good example of something I think about often.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
The LII criticizes others for employing overly obscure or personal concepts, seeing them as pretentious or muddled.
Not at all. If people want to think something - why stop them? If they try and assert it on myself, then I'd aggress their actions, but I don't criticise people for holding those views or beliefs. Everyone can believe what they want, it doesn't have any bearing on me.

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He can accurately predict the consequences of actions, but avoids giving warnings to others, preferring to simply make the decisions himself.
Not necessarily. I am able to predict the consequences of actions (I always used to think this was something everyone did anyway - even now I'm still a bit uncertain as to whether or not weak Ni people have trouble with this, although I suppose everyone learns from experience anyway.

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Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
Broad analyses of historical trends based on factual evidence are uninteresting to him after he has "mined" them for their more salient features or concepts.
Not really, although this isn't something I actively engage in anyway.

Sorry, but I'm still not convinced about being an INTj.
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  #60  
Old 11/08/2007, 11:43 AM
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Why are conclusions so necessary anyway? Some people appreciate just facts on their own.
LOL, you're funny. Facts ARE conclusions.
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