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  #1  
Old 02/09/2009, 03:58 PM
Cyclops Cyclops is offline
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Default What ego functions/type do you think this is?

I came across this:

Quote:
I pull together all the available facts, and use all the facts I have gathered, 'swirl' them around, and I feel that with what I have gathered I then present to the world, my thoughts. When I gather this information, there is of course, some blanks (after all..to take on board EVERYTHING would suggest I don't actually have a mind of my own) so what happens is I take on as many facts as I can, the more facts I take on, the more able I am to reject that which does not fit in with the most of the assimilated information.

The more information I take on, the more I am able to reject that which does not fit in, and the more able I am to use this information to formulate my own opinions, and indeed, to come up with new ideas and advances in the information I have taken on.

I use this information to come up with new ideas new ideas and advances.

It is sort of like a logical information external gatherer, and then connecting that info to be feel knowledgable, to absorb, then produce internally and externally, new insights based on this data gathering and sorting system.
I am curious to hear what type you think this person is, (or what functions s/he's referring to)?
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Old 02/09/2009, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
I came across this:

Quote:
I pull together all the available facts, and use all the facts I have gathered, 'swirl' them around, and I feel that with what I have gathered I then present to the world, my thoughts. When I gather this information, there is of course, some blanks (after all..to take on board EVERYTHING would suggest I don't actually have a mind of my own) so what happens is I take on as many facts as I can, the more facts I take on, the more able I am to reject that which does not fit in with the most of the assimilated information.

The more information I take on, the more I am able to reject that which does not fit in, and the more able I am to use this information to formulate my own opinions, and indeed, to come up with new ideas and advances in the information I have taken on.

I use this information to come up with new ideas new ideas and advances.

It is sort of like a logical information external gatherer, and then connecting that info to be feel knowledgable, to absorb, then produce internally and externally, new insights based on this data gathering and sorting system.
I am curious to hear what type you think this person is, (or what functions s/he's referring to)?
It's clearly blocked with .
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Old 02/09/2009, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
I came across this:



I am curious to hear what type you think this person is, (or what functions s/he's referring to)?
It sounds , particularly in that it seeks to put everything into a structure and reject what doesn't fit.
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Old 02/09/2009, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
I came across this:

I am curious to hear what type you think this person is, (or what functions s/he's referring to)?
Not sure, but is this person ILI (INTP)?
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Old 02/09/2009, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Kanerou View Post
It sounds , particularly in that it seeks to put everything into a structure and reject what doesn't fit.
It's clearly not , and it's important that people understand why. Like all rational functions rejects information early in the information gathering process. does not take on as many facts as it can, and does not "pull together all the available facts, and use all the facts" it has gathered. It requires an irrational type to think and behave like that.

The focus on facts and external information comes from . The desire to put it all together into a coherent whole, a coherent and correct world view, comes from . The attitude that is expressed in the quote is clearly not EJ temperament, because it doesn't have the necessary focus on effectiveness, practical results, what the information can be used for, etc. It strongly suggest IP temperament.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandals View Post
Not sure, but is this person ILI (INTP)?
It certainly seems so.

Last edited by Prometheus; 02/09/2009 at 05:03 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 02/09/2009, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Prometheus View Post
It's clearly not , and it's important that people understand why. Like all rational functions rejects information early in the information gathering process. does not take on as many facts as it can, and does not "pull together all the available facts, and use all the facts" it has gathered. It requires an irrational type to think and behave like that.

The focus on facts and external information comes from . The desire to put it all together into a coherent whole, a coherent and correct world view, comes from . The attitude that is expressed in the quote is clearly not EJ temperament, because it doesn't have the necessary focus on effectiveness, practical results, what the information can be used for, etc. It strongly suggest IP temperament.

It certainly seems so.
If this typing is accurate, then maybe I understand more than I do. I didn't read the two posts before me describing the functions. I didn't even know what the triangles/squares meant or referred to until I looked it up just know. So, my guess was based solely on the description Cyclops provided and the socionic site description of the various types. I went from thinking that this person was definitely a P and T, but I wasn't sure about S or N. When I read the ISTP description, didn't seem to match, but when I read about the INTP observer, it seemed to fit the best. That was fun.

Last edited by Elevate; 02/09/2009 at 05:20 PM.
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Old 02/09/2009, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandals View Post
If it's true, then maybe I understand more than I do. I didn't read the two posts before me describing the functions. I didn't even know what the triangles/squares meant or referred to until I looked it up just know. So, my guess was based solely on the description Cyclops provided and the socionic site description of the various types.
Good. Most people here don't seem to be able to read and understand the type descriptions correctly. Nice to see that you are an exception.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandals
I went from thinking that this person was definitely a P and T, but I wasn't sure about S or N. When I read the ISTP description, didn't seem to match, but when I read about the INTP observer, it seemed to fit the best. That was fun.
Fun or not, if you follow that procedure in all your typings as a starting point instead of listening to all those fools who are blinded by their own misconceptions of the types based on a too narrow focus on functions descriptions, then you will be better at typing than most people around.

The INTp/ILI observer is definitely that type that fits the description best.
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Old 02/09/2009, 05:55 PM
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Although typing from a quote isn't exactly the "best" method, I am interested to hear peoples thoughts on it, as many as who would like to reply! cheers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kanerou
It sounds , particularly in that it seeks to put everything into a structure and reject what doesn't fit
This was my sort of thought also, fwiw.
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Old 02/09/2009, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
Although typing from a quote isn't exactly the "best" method, I am interested to hear peoples thoughts on it, as many as who would like to reply! cheers.
This was my sort of thought also, fwiw.
One can understand why you make that mistake, and you are certainly not alone in making it. But these socionic forums will never rise above the level of kindergartens if people refuse to learn the functions correctly. Why do people over and over again get the wrong idea that this is ? The only reasonable explanation I can come up with is that people are lead astray by MBTI sites.

There is nothing in Socionics that would suggest that this is . So why do you refuse to accept this fact? Can't you read? Don't you understand what you read? Or what is it?
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Old 02/09/2009, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prometheus View Post
One can understand why you make that mistake, and you are certainly not alone in making it. But these socionic forums will never rise above the level of kindergartens if people refuse to learn the functions correctly. Why do people over and over again get the wrong idea that this is ? The only reasonable explanation I can come up with is that people are lead astray by MBTI sites.

There is nothing in Socionics that would suggest that this is . So why do you refuse to accept this fact? Can't you read? Don't you understand what you read? Or what is it?
OK Prom, for me I feel you've made your point, that you see it as INTp, that's fine. I just want to hear everyones opinions and not for it to be dragged into a discussion with yourself vs anyone who might care to make a suggestion otherwise.

I suppose there is plenty of time to disagree, but hopefully not plenty of time to discuss with someone who would never move their opinion or perhaps even be prepared to re-consider it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prometheus
Can't you read?
Yes I can read and I suppose this sort of stuff like I quoted isn't necessary.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Prometheus
Or what is it?
I suppose it takes a lot of bizarre energy to discuss with someone who I don't think would ever budge and just insult and ad hominem instead, I don't want to get fanatical! :-)

Last edited by Cyclops; 02/09/2009 at 06:16 PM.
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  #11  
Old 02/09/2009, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prometheus View Post
Good. Most people here don't seem to be able to read and understand the type descriptions correctly. Nice to see that you are an exception.
Not about exception really. The real point is that the grand focus on understanding all these theories and functions may not be necessary in order to understand it. Anyone who reads carefully and seeks to understand it for themselves, can probably figure it out. It will probably take some time, but they will probably figure it out eventually. So, I guess, in that respect I agree with you. Just hope others who feel clueless about socionics don't feel too bad if they don't understand the specific details of the various functions.

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Old 02/09/2009, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
I pull together all the available facts, and use all the facts I have gathered, 'swirl' them around, and I feel that with what I have gathered I then present to the world, my thoughts. When I gather this information, there is of course, some blanks (after all..to take on board EVERYTHING would suggest I don't actually have a mind of my own) so what happens is I take on as many facts as I can, the more facts I take on, the more able I am to reject that which does not fit in with the most of the assimilated information.

The more information I take on, the more I am able to reject that which does not fit in, and the more able I am to use this information to formulate my own opinions, and indeed, to come up with new ideas and advances in the information I have taken on.

I use this information to come up with new ideas new ideas and advances.

It is sort of like a logical information external gatherer, and then connecting that info to be feel knowledgable, to absorb, then produce internally and externally, new insights based on this data gathering and sorting system.
Seems like and to me. Alpha NT.
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  #13  
Old 02/09/2009, 06:55 PM
Cyclops Cyclops is offline
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...........

Last edited by Cyclops; 02/09/2009 at 07:05 PM. Reason: .....
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  #14  
Old 02/09/2009, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandals View Post
Anyone who reads carefully and seeks to understand it for themselves, can probably figure it out.
But as you can see for yourself in this thread, most people insist on seeing it as (introverted thinking, Ti) when it is in fact not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandals
It will probably take some time, but they will probably figure it out eventually.
So far that has never happened during the time I have been around (four years or something like that). It doesn't matter how many times you try to explain to people that they are wrong and that they should correct their understanding of the functions and the types -- they refuse to do learn anyway. A minority of forum members understand it correctly, but they are almost always marginalized by the incompetent majority, and thus we have this crazy situation where people are brainwashed by incompetent people who are certain that they are right. It's very irritating, but similar patterns can be seen everywhere in society, so it's not extremely surprising. But the intellectual level of the discussions on these forums is very low due to all these spreadings of incorrect information, mistypings, etc.

It is always the INTj type that is in focus and is most often misunderstood and misrepresented in these "debates". For some reason many people believe that they are INTjs, when it is quite obvious that many of them are not. I made the very same mistake in the beginning, when I hadn't investigated the causes of the misunderstandings properly.

But the only likely explanation for this phenomenon, where people incorrectly type themselves and others as INTjs and incorrectly think that a certain kind of behaviour (as in Cyclops's initial quote in this thread) should be attributed to , is that they have read INTP type profiles and descriptions of Ti (introverted thinking) in MBTI. Because in MBTI they claim that this way of thinking is typical of INTPs and they also claim that it is Ti.

But in Socionics it is not . And in Socionics it is not the INTj (who has leading ) who thinks like an INTP in MBTI. In Socionics it is the INTp (the ILI) who thinks like an INTP in MBTI, and it is the ILI/INTp in Socionics that exhibits the exact same typical behaviour and attitudes as the INTP in MBTI.

The reason why this is so hard for people to understand is because both models use the same name, the same label, "Ti" for two different functions and two different types. And INTj in Socionics correspond to the INTJ in MBTI, and the INTp in Socionics correspond to the INTP in MBTI, despite the fact that they seem have different functions if you only look at what they happen to call those functions in each theory.
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Old 02/09/2009, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prometheus View Post
But as you can see for yourself in this thread, most people insist on seeing it as (introverted thinking, Ti) when it is in fact not.

. . .

But the only likely explanation for this phenomenon, where people incorrectly type themselves and others as INTjs and incorrectly think that a certain kind of behaviour (as in Cyclops's initial quote in this thread) should be attributed to , is that they have read INTP type profiles and descriptions of Ti (introverted thinking) in MBTI. Because in MBTI they claim that this way of thinking is typical of INTPs and they also claim that it is Ti.

But in Socionics it is not . And in Socionics it is not the INTj (who has leading ) who thinks like an INTP in MBTI. In Socionics it is the INTp (the ILI) who thinks like an INTP in MBTI, and it is the ILI/INTp in Socionics that exhibits the exact same typical behaviour and attitudes as the INTP in MBTI.

The reason why this is so hard for people to understand is because both models use the same name, the same label, "Ti" for two different functions and two different types. And INTj in Socionics correspond to the INTJ in MBTI, and the INTp in Socionics correspond to the INTP in MBTI, despite the fact that they seem have different functions if you only look at what they happen to call those functions in each theory.
Sounds reasonable.
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Old 03/09/2009, 04:10 PM
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Some further information, I have an opinion on this persons type. He's sat some tests also and they haven't gave INTp, he also doesn't identify with INTp type.

Last edited by Cyclops; 03/09/2009 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 03/09/2009, 04:14 PM
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Some further information, I have an opinion on this persons type. He's sat some tests also and they give him INTj, he also doesn't identify with INTp type.
Irrelevant. It is still not .
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Old 03/09/2009, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
I came across this:



I am curious to hear what type you think this person is, (or what functions s/he's referring to)?
My understanding of Ti/Te is certainly not the most advanced.
However the empahasis in the originally quoted statement seems to be on the synthesis of facts over the system the author is creating.

I do know an ILI who thinks in almost exactly this way. very methodical, taking on board info, discarding info which is irrelevent.
However I feel that both Ti and Te are being expressed, I do not have enough information (insight, experience etc.) to say for certain the emphasis either way.
I will say Te > Ti as a gut reaction. actually I'm really not sure. so I will shut up.
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Old 03/09/2009, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by king View Post
I will say Te > Ti as a gut reaction. actually I'm really not sure. so I will shut up.
You don't need to shut up, everyone's input is appreciated. I see it strong Te as well, but Te is unvalued and parts are discarded in favor of Ti.
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So this one time me an' my bes' frien' Stan, we went to a church service. That preacher was talkin' 'bout hell. So Stan leans over to me an' he says, "I bet hell is like a PoLR hit every day."

An' I says, "Stan, you prolly right."
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Old 03/09/2009, 09:33 PM
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You don't need to shut up, everyone's input is appreciated. I see it strong Te as well, but Te is unvalued and parts are discarded in favor of Ti.
No. You are wrong.
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